Joclyn's Switching Thread

[Heather]

That's great that you might be able to let you biz all play together. I would so like to be able to do that.
I haven't changed my banner since starting here and Guili created my banner. Most of the little ones on there have passed on . I just lack the computer skills to update it and put my new furkids on there
ciao

[joclyn]

heya! this past month has FLOWN by! actually, so did september. i still can't believe it's november now and the time change is this weekend and it got down to freezing last night. (i hate fall and winter).

things are still kind of standing as is with amounts being eaten. still have days where they don't eat 'the usual' and no one really seems to be putting on winter weight - i've had all of them in to the vets over the past 6 weeks and weights, if changed, were very slight - just an ounce or two up/down.

i did see some increase in amounts eaten for a little bit and then put the heat on, so, i think that messed them up

i'm wondering if upping the amount of prey items given (vs just raw meat portions) is causing them to be more full and that's why they're not eating as much? by that i mean, the prey stuff has fur or feathers to be worked through and either will be a 'bulker' in the digestive system, so, it does kind of make sense they aren't eating as much. plus it's been just about a year, so, their bodies are fully adjusted to the diet now (and working efficiently at processing it which wouldn't have been the case initially).

am i worrying about it too much??? they're healthy and active and any weight loss, if there, IS minimal...they just haven't gained winter weight yet - although, it is just the beginning of november, so, i may be looking for it too early since this is the first year they're on raw (with being on kibble, they definitely would be eating more now and putting some weight on).

had a show - grizel took 1st in roan again taco didn't take 1st in chocolate tho - he was in mid-coat change, so, that hurt him...hopefully winter nat's will be better for him.

i DO have the 7 back in one cage now - just since the show last week. so, now, the 3 kibblekrunchers can easily see the others eating raw and hopefully that will spur their interest. although, they will eat organs...just not the raw chunks (and definitely not the prey stuff). they'll get there - will just take a little more time!

i will be monitoring closely to be sure finola is getting her fair portion and to make sure that noodle is okay with it and boo. he seems to be so far and boo and he are almost always cuddled up together snoozing...i'm so glad the desi implant is working so well for boo! i really hated having to split the 7 up as they had been a nice cohesive group - hate adrenal disease!

[Heather]

I find that my guys have been really slow about winter weight and coat this year. Last year they were in winter weight and coat by the end of August. I know that they are heavily light induced but I think how warm it is during the fall bears as well. Lady Natasha is just putting on her winter coat now, and both she and Lady "B" have finally put on their tail fur too. I know that Odin is in fine winter form but the rest are lagging a bit. I am about to do my weights this week so I will be interested to see how they compare.
Yes, there is indeed a slow down when eating the raw as they come up to one year. It is almost as if the system goes....ok no more of the other crap and I don't need to eat so much now. If they are still happy, healthy and active...they may be where they need to be. Remember, raw winter weight is nothing like kibble winter weight, so they may not carry as much bulk as before. They may weigh in the same or even more but they won't look as bulky.
Congratulations on your wins. That is so fantastic. Give your little ones a big hug from me, they're all winners All playing and sleeping together so nicely. What good little furbrats . that's great that you've managed to get your non-raw eaters eating organ meats. It's probably the consistency that appeals to them. Beginners seem to like the more liquid meat mixes compared to the ones who have been eating raw for a time who will happily chow down with a more dry mixtures.
Keep me posted as to what is going on and if you find any reason to be concerned about their weight.
ciao

[joclyn]

ugh, where'd the time go?? the cage change has gone really well...noodle is not stressed at all. he finally stopped chewing at his tail, so, now i can see what it looks like...he's got solid black on the tip!! i think part of the issue with boo bothering him was that cyst he had on his thingy - it was a 'nothing' thing, yet, still did cause some issues for noodle and boo was aware of that, i think. plus, him being adrenal and he also had some med issues last year.

every day i find the two of them cuddled up in a hammy. i'm very glad to have them all together again!

grizel is not interested in raw meat. she'll sniff and turn her nose up. chauncey and taco have consistantly taken the meat and stashed it. taco had started to eat a little before the ibd started in the spring and then wasn't interested at all.

i've gotten both of the boys to eat tiny, tiny, tiny, pieces of meat - cornish hen and turkey. chicken was licked at and then stashed. i did a bit of tug-o-war with the chicken - trying to get them to bite off a bit of it. that didn't work, though.

they do stash in the food bowl, so, they're aware it's food, so, big plus there.

i did try hearts and i was surprised they didn't want to eat them. they did lick juices off my fingers tho.

so, we'll continue. i had tried mice before - maybe i'll try them again and mix with some liver. i still have some pinkies - which need to be used - so, i can puree them with the liver and get them familiar with the taste.

duncan and boo are both down a little in weight. as is chauncey. finola seems fine. they're the 4 that got the desi implants...they're only down a couple ounces. it's only a few months into the implant, i really hope this isn't a sign that the implants have stopped working already!

although, i have found chauncey ear-sucking quite a few times recently and boo is getting more affectionate with me - actually gave my face a bath the other day! he rarely gives kisses, only did so when he was on the lupron and it was wearing off.

so, not pleased as i was really hoping the implants would last a year. just going to monitor them.

to compensate for finola's eating habits, i'm putting out enough meat to last through everyone elses eating so that there's some for her when she gets up. some days i'm finding stuff left when i get home or get up and other days nothings left. so, i think things are okay there. weight over the next few weeks will be the tell. hopefully they'll all at least hold at where they are...obi, winston and noodle have all gained some, so, the packing-it-on-for-winter is starting.

[Heather]

I've noticed that my guys are now putting on serious weight and coat. It's late this year, but then I was reading that some of the ferret breeders were complaining that their hobs were still up and ready so if they're not careful they won't get much of a rest this year
I'm glad that your new cage set up is working out and is causing less stress in your business. My guys are off again and on again about eating hearts (which is why I usually grind it up into their soupy) that way if they don't eat it whole then they get it anyway
You working with the deslorin implants? I'm interested in your observations...I've got a little one who is coming up on the end symptoms of her adrenal Her meds aren't working (she's loosing her hair again, and she has ulcers) I know what usually happens next She's still enjoying life, I don't want her to loose that.
I hope that your boys start putting back on their weight. I know how troubling that can be.
ciao

[joclyn]

the 7 eat the hearts - with relish!! even the cat loves hearts! and they always have; that's why i was surprised that heart didn't go over well with the last 3 - if anything would entice them to eat raw, i thought heart would be it!!

yeah, the weather is messed up (again) so, they do seem to be going into winter mode a bit late. i'm just noticing it more since i'm being more observant with their eating habits and weighing them so regularly...only did sporadic weigh-ins before

the desi implants are wonderful!!!

all of mine needed more than the base 100 mg of lupron and the vet, for whatever reason, resisted giving them higher doses. even with it being clear that the base dose wasn't working. it also took more than 6 months of getting on her about the other implant before she even looked in to it (and i wasn't the only one asking about it!).

so, anyhoo. boo and chauncey got it first. boo was getting lupron/melatonin and chauncey just lupron. Wow!! huge difference within a couple of weeks!! more muscle and perkier attitude and more energy. and the fur! both gained a ton of fur!! chauncey didn't have any appreciable loss of fur to begin with...well, it didn't look like it - until he got that med into him! really made a difference in his fur!! more of it and it's softer/silkier! boo has always had soft/silky fur - just had an all-over thinning of it with the adrenal. he's got a full coat now and it's even softer than it was previously!!

duncan and finola got the shot a month later - again, i noticed muscle (and weight) added within a couple weeks. then that seemed to gradually fade away over a couple months. both were more active for a bit, though.

finola was getting lupron/melatonin - with varied results with the melatonin. it's possible that the implants fell out - she's a real squirmer and one time she bled during the implantation, so, whatever hole is made from that was a bit bigger due to her movement (so, that one likely did fall out). i did see some improvement with duncan's fur. finola, she had the start of regrowth on her tail and then that went when she shed and it's not come back. i'd even done a melatonin implant after the desi, cuz i wanted her tail to have fur. didn't help tho - although, it may have fallen out before it could do anything. or it's just not going to work for her any more (although, only one implant actually did anything for her fur). i'm debating right now whether to try another one.

so, it's been 5 months and 4 months.

i wasn't as pleased with how dunc and finola did with it - really wasn't sure if finola was even getting any benefit (couldn't feel the implant and the vet did say she had trouble getting it in because she has such a petite bone structure and that she put it too low to be easily felt). although, she must have been getting the meds in her system because, other than her tail, the rest of her fur looked fantastic! and behaviour has been lovely.

dunc is one that's lost a little weight. and he's been much less playful lately. so, i think the implant is not doing for him any more. he is older, tho, at least as old as boo and maybe older, so, he could just be slowing down due to age. finola seems to be more inactive though, too...so, again not sure about whether she's still getting benefit of the med.

both boo and chauncey have been exhibiting behaviours - chauncey has been sucking ears again and boo is very affectionate. although i love his kisses, he only gives me them when his hormone levels are high

i was really hoping for close to a year (if not longer) for the med to be working. looks like it's only going to be a 6-month deal though. which is still half the cost (or more in some cases) of the lupron. so, not so bad. and, there's the plus of not having to put them through a shot every month - that's the biggest plus!

i'm just watching things at this point - not everyone sheds at the same time or in the same way, so, even though i'm seeing some skin, it could just be due to shed time...so, waiting and watching before i decide if they need new implants or not!

how much of the lupron is your little one getting? maybe it's just a matter of upping the dosage? if she's been on it for a while, then, that might be all she needs. and melatonin does stop working after a while, that's a known fact

the desi doesn't work for every ferret. i know one person who's it didn't work for - although, he had other issues going on so, other meds may have been in conflict with it and, then, he was diagnosed with lymphoma, and that, i think, is why the desi didn't work for him.

how are you dealing with the ulcers?? you only use holistic treatments, right? poor lil dear!!

[Heather]

I've found that with the ulcers that come with the adrenal, homeopathics and holistics neither work fast enough or long enough. Pooka is being treated with sulcrate and clavamox. I think I'm going to have to find something else though. She refused all food today and is grinding her teeth a lot. Poor wee mite.
I think I'm going to see if I can convince my vet to try and import some des....she's not a fan (used it years ago in the horse racing circuit). The thing is, nothing else is working I recognise those pasty stools though, I've seen it too often when treating lymphomas. I'm hoping not, but it seems to indicate that the adrenal has progressed and this time, drugs may not help
Thank you for the information, it's really appreciated
ciao

[joclyn]

aww, poor lil pooka! i hate to see them with upset tummies!!

carafate is a good med - how many times a day are you giving it? you can give it 3x for sure (maybe more). what about adding in pepcid? that keeps the stomach acid down and may help her feel better.

it's not good she's not wanting to eat

don't know about desi & horses. i know it's used in dogs and very successfully and the same with ferrets - so far, anyhoo. it's used to take them out of season, as a preventative for adrenal and to treat active cases of adrenal. different animal, so the med may work differently. doesn't mean it's not something very effective for ferrets - hopefully she'll be open to using it!

they didn't eat all the gp's, so, since they're all chewed open, i'm going to grab one and see if the 3 will give a try!

[Heather]

Good luck with getting them to eat the gps.
They use and have used the des for young horses on the race track. .... to keep their minds on racing instead of well....sex She said that there were terrible reactions and having to dig out the implant was horrible. It also caused sterilization too...permanent but that's not an issue here. I'm going to be making an appointment for Pooka this week and discuss some type of alternative to what is going on right now.
ciao

[joclyn]

gee, it's been one thing after another here. right after my last post, taco got sick and then thanksgiving and getting ready for the show and since then, just the normal busy time at work with getting geared up with year-end stuff and trying to get xmas stuff taken care of and running back/forth to the hospital and then his house since my boss got his knee done.

i've had absolutely no extra time!

taco is adrenal on top of the ibd vet wanted to wait to treat it until the infection situation was resolved and with everything and the holidays, i haven't even called to get set for that. and the others need their desi shots too - all 4! it's clear the stuff is only going to last 6 months for them. was really hoping it would be longer!! so, with taco, that's 5 that are adrenal at least the desi shots last for a while so, even though more expensive upfront, it's still less in the long run.

yeah, the formulation for horses is different - not time release and it does seem to cause unwanted issues. i've really not heard of any problems with the dose that's being used on the ferrets...time it lasts varies and i'll bet that's related to the particular hormones at play as well as how long the adrenal disease was there before any kind of treatment was started. also, whether the glands have gone malignant or not would affect how effective the med is.

i hope you've gotten pooka situated!!!

i've worked on moving more to prey and just supplementing with some raw items to be sure enough bone is eaten. it's gone well and they finally started putting on weight for winter - except those that need their shots. they're all pretty scraggly-looking

will be calling the vet on monday and hopefully one of them will be in and can get the order in to peptech so that they can get the new implants right after the new year!

i've not been able to do much with the 3 - they did eat some cornish game hen. well, the boys did, not grizel. they ate a few little bites and then stashed the rest. they're all (all 3) licking off fluid from various meats and they all licked off juices from hearts - only taco actually tried the meat though. they're now situated right alongside the other cage and can easily see the others eating...and they obviously can smell it. once i can focus on it daily, i think i'll see them moving along...just don't know when i'll really be able to do that!

maybe i should do the ground up soupies with them to get them moving to the raw? i didn't do that with the others tho...

the others are doing very well with the prey. i've been doing a mix of ages for gp's and quail. the mice are either large size or extra large. doesn't really pay to get smaller sizes of mice. i did get some whole rabbits - just small ones though and i'm only giving rabbit every two weeks.

gp's regardless of what size i put out (small, med, large, extra large) they take all day to eat them. weight-wise, it's the same amount regardless of size of animal, and the amount is in line with what all 7 should be eating, so, i don't get it.

i put out the same amount -weight wise - of quail, mice, rabbit and that's gone long before it's time for the next meal to be put out. even raw meat - chicken/turkey thighs, ch. wings, hearts or game hen gets eaten up 'normally'. well, most of the time - i am still occassionally seeing leftovers so, if i do, i'll sometimes hold off putting something new out.

i'd have thought the whole rabbit would have been harder to deal with since the fur is so much thicker...nope, they breeze through that!

so, i don't understand why they take their time with the gp's like they do!

okay, so, they're getting mice and gp's 3x a week each; quail 2x a week; chicken wings 1x; sardine w/bone in olive oil 1x; chicken or turkey (dark meat) 1x; giblets 1x; rabbit and rcgh once every every 10 days or so, the liver/necks from the rcgh once a month or so (have to build up a supply as i go along with the hens and sometimes the liver or neck is missing) and chicken/turkey/duck neck 1x every two weeks; they're getting chicken hearts once a month and sometimes twice depending on how many are in the packages with the giblets. i'm also giving small meals of kidney every two weeks (i just want to be sure everyone is getting it). i give egg with the kidney, and also by itself sometimes.

i am out of necks and haven't been able to get in touch with that butcher or the head butcher at either of the regular grocery stores (on vacations or i just end up calling too late). so, this month, they're short on bone cuz i have no necks. well, no, not short on bone - i substituted by giving rcgh for the neck meal - so, they got good bone.

i still have some rabbit from haretoday (no fur on that) and that's older animal, so, been trying to remember to switch off with the whole ones (much younger animal) and that as i go along - lol, gave the whole the last two times, so, i have to make sure to give the chunk pieces the next time!

i'm also done with duck pieces - although, i have a whole duck that i need to defrost to use it. i'm thinking to cut some of it in pieces and use some of it to make ground - can use a portion to make a soupie to get the 3 moving on raw and use a portion to mix in with the kidney (for all of them, since the 3 WILL eat organ soup!)

i think this is pretty well balanced for all nutrients. especially since everyone does eat everything that's offered now (finola enjoys the mice now and i see her eating the innards of the gp's and rabbits, so, i know she's getting her needed organ). only other ones that might be questionable about organ consumption are oberon, winston and maybe pixie. and i cover that with the small meals of kidney.

[Heather]

Sounds to me that the ones that are eating raw are doing very well. The ones that aren't may need the extra push of using a soupy, especially if they're willing to lap up the blood and try small amounts of meat. That may be the extra push that they need to start themselves on the whole raw thing.
Pooka got a lupron shot while we wait for the des shots to come in. She did not badly on the lupron, the fur is still disappearing (my poor wee naked little girl) but she's actually eating again (albeit me hand feeding her but at least its a raw ground soupy instead of a cooked baby food). I know what you mean about the shots....I've got Pooka who is in dire need, Sprite and Captain Jack who are going to get the shots as well as the melatonin is starting to no longer give that extra boost needed. Ah these wee beasties are not for the "faint of pocketbook"
Is it possible that the IBD is adrenal? I noticed that Pooka was having IBD type symptoms but these stopped when she got the lupron?
Good luck with your wee ones, I will be talking at you soon
ciao

[joclyn]

YES! the ibd can be related to adrenal disease!! boo had symptoms of it as well as a prolapsed rectum and, once the lupron was in his system, the ibd symptoms disappeared as did the prolapse. so, i'm hoping taco's issues will also disappear once i get some meds in him...waiting for the vet to call me so i can get the des. ordered!

i did see a reference to the deslorelin being helpful for ibd issues (even if adrenal is not present/suspected) - that was within the past couple weeks although i forget if it was on the fhl or the fml...

very glad the lupron helped pooka!! and, yes, the melatonin does seem to lose it's effectiveness poor finola is a prime example of that!! she's still furless on her tail, although, she's got a bit of fuzz now (that's orange). and she's getting quite nasty - really needs her implant! and she didn't even make 6 months for it

yes, having ferrets is not for those 'faint of the pocketbook' !!! i've got the 4 that are adrenal and taco is pretty definite as having it and i'm pretty sure winston has it as well (he's getting out of control with the food aggression and i see him doing quite a bit of grooming others), so, i'll be giving 6 implants this time around. sigh!

i will start with meat soup and see how it goes for the three. i put a mouse out for them yesterday - just on the off chance they'd give it a go. this morning i though that someone had!! turns out the mouse had been moved and the head was bent under (not eaten). i have the rcgh liver/giblet/neck for tonights din-din, so, i'll try pureeing some for the 3 and see how they do with it

[Heather]

Dragging the mouse around is a start I've got one boy, Yuri who gives me terrible grief. He eats stuffies, but won't eat mice ...got to eat that stuffing crap but not the inside out of a mouse. He has to have been my hardest switch and he's not that old. He's switched now, but he will eat only ground (he also has a peculiar habit of eating plastic bowls so he has to be fed in metal bowls...got to wonder about these farm ferts :
Pooka is more naked now than she ever was. I think I"m going to have to resort to getting her a t-shirt . She's a funny little thing, when you first see her wandering down the hall she appears to have a beautiful winter coat. It's when you pick her up and you realize she's naked underneath I've been hearing more and more about the des not lasting much longer than 6 months. I've also heard that the tumors are even more aggressive if you force the length of time.
Good luck with your little ones. Keep me posted as to how well their soupy is received
ciao

[joclyn]

the vet does not have any des implants and they're not going to be available until february from peptech

she also insisted that the implants should still be working. i don't know. it's possible that fluctuation in the levels being absorbed could account for behaviour changes - i've not seen chauncey doing ear sucking this past week - although, finola is still downright nasty. and boo & dunc are kind of in between with behaviours.

i keep hearing 6-8 months being what people are seeing with some saying 12 months. so i dunno!! and, yes, i am aware of what's said about tumor growth going on with a vengeance and i'm really worried about all of them.

taco is going tomorrow for lupron though - he can't wait any longer for something. and i'll probably bring finola too - i was never sure if the des implant was working for her to begin with and i really don't like the way she is acting nor the way she looks (all kinds of scraggly), so she may be getting the lupron too.

lol about how pooka looks! that's the same with taco! from the front he looks okay - it's when you look at him from the side or above that he's all kinds of funky looking! he's got fur loss around the neck/shoulders and absolutely no undercoat anywhere but his head.

i've had issues at work that have kept me late yesterday and today - so, haven't done a thing with raw soup for the 3 and tomorrow is the vet appt, so, i doubt i'll have time to sit and try feeding them anything raw until friday.

ehhh, maybe i'll take out a giblet and hang that and see if anyone takes the bait, lol...

[Heather]

I tried to get a message and it flew off to cyberspace My vet notified me a couple of days ago that there would be no des until Feb She was able to get 5 dated vials (by dated they expire in Jan) Her concern was that she wouldn't be able to use them fast enough. I convinced her that I had 3 with possible 4th and reminded her that she also had another little one who's lupron shots were no longer working. Do vets share drugs across the border? You could get the extra one or even the second if this other lady doesn't take the one for her boy (it seems he's not doing very well ) My Lady "B" could wait until Feb if your little one needed it and your vet was willing apply to have the stuff shipped down. I don't know that Lady B is even got adrenal, she's just really scruffy and sleeping more.
Let me know if you get any takers for the gibby....if not let me know what happens with your guys and the soupy. Good luck
ciao