Joclyn's Switching Thread

[Heather]

Yes, you can continue to switch Taco despite the insulinoma but you will have to watch and see if it's progressed too far for him to not have kibbles. I worked with one lady who had 2 ferrets with insulinoma both ferrets switched but she had to continue feeding kibble as the one little one couldn't go with just the raw food. Both shared a cage so, kibble remained in the cage. She tried to leave enough raw in the cage when she was out to cover their needs but the kibble was more a safety net than an actual necessity.
Awesome bit of showing. Great stuff. I will have to travel below the border someday soon to see a ferret show. I believe the nearest to me is the Buckeye Bash but that's a 9 hr trip. I will have to make a weekend of it . Give your little ones a big hug from me, and tell Taco he just has to get better Who do you have that's completely switched? Keep me posted
ciao

[joclyn]

the following are completely switched:

boo boo
duncan
finola
noodle
oberon
pixie
winston

leaving chauncey, grizel and taco still eating kibbles.

i hope raw will work for taco. since natura sold out to proctor & gamble, the formula/quality will undoubtedly change sometime soon and the evo is the only kibble i liked for them...

you DO need to come down for a show!! it's a lot of fun!!

when i go to york, i stay for the weekend even though it's only a few hours drive for me - just like to be as relaxed as possible with it all. would definitely have to do the same for those that are in maryland and ohio as they're further away. i think the one in ohio is about an 8 hour drive for me.

[Heather]

Hey, you're really doing well. You've only got the 3 hold outs now. Are they biting at all? or is the kibble still the real winner?
I'm going to have to come down to some shows...probably in the next year or so. I don't know how much you prowl the forum, but I've started a thread and I"m picking everyone's brain regarding breeding my own ferrets. Just doing the research presently. The only ferrets I can get up here are farm ferrets or BYB ferts and as much as I love my rescues, I would really like to see if with a good breeding program, natural diet that I might be able to get a ferret that doesn't come down with adrenal disease by the time it's 4 or 5 yrs old I don't know if I'm cut out for the whole breeding thing, which is why I'm doing my research. Once I get further along in my thinking then it will be going to the shows and seeing the ferrets first hand, checking out breeders and their opinions. Seeing their ferrets, checking out their health issues, the lines and the genetics behind those lines. I've actually gone as far as considering pulling in European stock. I would only breed for myself, I've no intention of becoming part of the problem, I've played in the rescue biz for too long to do that.
ciao

[joclyn]

did not have time to work on the chart. i WILL get to it over the weekend though. for sure!

i've contemplated getting into breeding. it takes a TON of research though and i'd also want to have a good relationship built with other breeders beforehand. both for what i can learn from those with the experience as well as for assistance with the process - for the actual mating and for support during the various phases.

going to shows is a good way of seeing what 'stock' the various breeders have as well as getting to know them!

i don't know if i'll ever do it. right now, it's definitely not an option.

we'll see what happens - if i win the lottery, lots of things in my life would be different (and, of course, i wasn't able to buy a ticket for the 261m lottery and someone hit on it and i missed buying a ticket today, so, have to make sure i get out tomorrow for one!)

all 3 ate the liver and the kidney when i pureed it with yogurt. and they've all eaten some bits of meats if i hand feed it. grizel & taco are caged together and i was putting small bits of meat on a hook for them and sometimes it's eaten and sometimes it's not. have no idea who was eating it. what they don't eat out-of-hand they do stash in the food bowl, so, they definitely know it's food. so, that's a plus. they'll come along - i'm going to need to move cage assignments around so that they can see the others munchin' on the raw and that should spur them on with it.

of the others, finola, pixie and noodle aren't eating mice. noodle did eat the pinkies, so, that's not so bad. i've not offered them the whole quail yet - i figured they wouldn't be interested in that if a little mouse doesn't whet their appetite...

funny thing about the quail - the one i put out the other night had an egg inside it. found it in the food bowl this morning and wasn't sure what it was and didn't have time to really look at it (had to go use the nebulizer). when i went back in after doing my meds, it was on the other side of the cage with one part of it ripped open and completely flattened out...so, someone had a NICE breakfast today!

[Heather]

There's some lucky little fuzzbutt who had some awesome eggy breakfast . I know that my guys loved the pigeon eggs that a friend gave them last year. They're so much softer and easier for them to handle than our regular chicken eggs. Sounds like the organ mix was a success....great stuff. One does what one has to in order to get them to eat their organ meats. Your guys are getting there.
ciao

[joclyn]

heya, just touching base. been in an asthma crisis - going on a week now and the humidity is still here and high, so, having a rough time of it still. missed the vet appt on saturday, too, due to the asthma - really ticked me off that i couldn't go. thank goodness neither furry is in a crisis - just basic checks to see what needs to be done with the issues.

have not finalized the feeding chart yet. getting a little messed up since they're changing how they eat. how much that is. it's really fluctuating from day to day. no one seems adverse for it though.

i do remember someone saying that, at first, they tend to eat a lot more than once they've been switched for a while. and it is just about summer now, and it's normal for food intact to decrease.

still, some days they barely touch the food so, i leave it out for their second feeding. so, some days they're eating half of what's been the 'norm' and some days even less than that. and that's what is worrying me - especially when it's a couple days in a row that they don't eat much.

is this just normal due to the fact that they're basically fully switched for a while now? and added in that it's warm weather? (although, the temp in the house is pretty much the same as in winter - maybe a few degrees higher if it's really hot out and i didn't leave the a/c on. still, it's not above 75).

[Heather]

I"m sorry to hear that you have asthma. My daughter used to suffer so badly during the summer, especially when I was living in an area of high humidity. I don't think from June to Aug we saw blue sky, yet is was sunny. The air con ran all the time, just trying to dry out the house. You most definitely have my sympathies. Take care of yourself, your furbabies need you to.
I find that in the summer my guys like to just make me nervous They eat a lot less, they do loose weight, some more than others. Right now they're looking a little scruffy. Keep a close eye on them but I know that once the humidity sets in, and the air con goes on (and yes the temp isn't much different than the winter) they stop eating, but I also find that the activity levels drop too. All these symptoms combine to make me really nervous but they appear to be fine. Keep checking the litter box, check to make sure that each of the furkids is indeed eating but yes, the amounts are much less. If you have concerns, make use of your vet, these little ones can go bad so fast in this weather I don't suppose I have to tell you that though.
Take care of yourself and your little ones
ciao

[joclyn]

heya, checking in.

i thought i'd have time to get the chart done this weekend. just totally wiped at this point and can't think - and still have laundry to get done so i have clean clothes for work (did the ferret laundry first).

as i said before, i'm switching things around a bit, too. so, that's throwing a wrench in things on the chart. i know you need that done before i'm officially done. i apologize for not having it completed yet!

the kidney is definitely going to be weekly since they hardly take it. the liver, if i can get the local butcher to definitely supply me with fresh chicken liver, will be an every other week thing. they absolutely love the fresh stuff!! anything else is not taken well by most. they ate the fresh chicken livers after they'd been frozen and i have one more serving left, so i expect the same positive reaction. and have time to get more in before the next cycle.

i'm also going to try guinea pigs. shoot, i still have to do the order tonight, too! shoot - that'll take me some time. darn, thought i'd get to bed 'on time'.

anyhoo, guinea pigs - are they considered a 'balanced' meal like large mice are? i'm talking medium or large gp's - which are a bit larger than the large mice. and full-sized quail - balanced meal? or would they (gp & quail) not be a balanced meal if they're being shared? if they need to eat one whole for balanced, what is the smallest size for each that would be balanced?

on mice, noodle and pixie are eating hoppers. and i *think* finola ate too. need to test her out by putting her by herself the next time mice are on the menu. i may not have put enough out for all three (noodle is a good eater), so, he may have eaten finola's portion. or even pixie. she seems to be in the 'flow' of it now and is more enthusiastic than she was previously and she seems to be eating more and you can see it as she's gained a few ounces

noodle may need surgery. took him to the vet for one thing - which turned out to be nothing - and he left with a problem. something that popped up quick as there was no issue when i clipped claws a few days beforehand. i forget, now, what she called it and what the surgery will entail. he's got what must be an adenoma on his thingy - antibiotics haven't done much to change the condition (swelled/discolored). the pus is gone - still it's an issue as the inflamation is basically the same now as it was at the vet appt. the lupron vet doesn't think he's adrenal (and neither do i) - no obvious signs and she just wants me to observe him for another month or two before we start with lupron.

i take him back this week for follow-up after antibiotics, so, will see what the regular vet wants to do about it.

the 3 hold-outs are holding out they'll stash stuff in their kibble bowls - don't usually actually eat it, though. they will eat some things (in small quantity) if i hand feed - which i kind of force to get them to try it.

and i've not been on the regular routine what with the asthma. man, the humidity just will not go away! so, have not been working with them as much as i had been. not worried, it'll come in time.

for the moment, the asthma is back in order and i resupplied myself with my vitamins (had been out of the b-complex and the cq10), so, i'm feeling better. also finally got the d3 (i tested extremely low last time i had bloodwork done) and i think that's also making a difference. so, hopefully energy levels will get back up and i'll be more efficient with getting chores done and can focus on these 3 to get them moved over!

[Heather]

Eating a whole guinea pig is considered balanced. Eating a whole half of a guinea pig is balanced....eating various portions not so much That being said, this would be how it would get eaten in the wild. My guys eat rats that way. Choice parts get eaten first and so on. Everyone gets some but I use other portioned food to balance. You could say, fed guinea pig on wed and that would be a portion of what you would be feeding ( a bit of bone, meat and organs, basically balanced) to be balanced out by the end of the week. Balance over time. Remember, to vary ages as well as prey. Bones in young prey are not enough calcium for a ferret.
I will light a healing candle for poor Noodle. Hopefully, things clear themselves up with antibiotics. It would fantastic if it's not adrenal (personally hate that disease )
I'm gland to hear that you're feeling better. That makes thing so much easier. I know all about not having enough time in the day
ciao

[Heather]

I'm going to be away for a couple of days. I may or may not have internet access. If you need answers to questions, please feel free to either post to the forum or pm sherrylynne who is covering for me while I'm away.
ciao

[joclyn]

geez, heather, i'm so sorry it's been so long since i posted! with my work and asthma and the awful weather we've had (it only let up for a short time and then kicked back in again) and noodle's situation, the month of july just flew by!

i hope you've been doing well and enjoyed your time away! i'm still waiting to get some time off of work!

the antibiotics didn't clear out the problem for noodle - helped a little, yes. still, he needed surgery. not much info around about adenoma's and what i could find out was not positive in any way. i debated about whether to do surgery or not because, if it was malignant and had spread, i didn't want to put him through all the stress/trauma of surgery if it wouldn't even be helpful or worthwhile.

all the vets i talked to said it would be best to get it off while it was small; that these things tend to be benign intially and turn bad later. and he was a little bit blocked, so, i scheduled the surgery.

he's on the tail end of recovering from it and the aftermath of it. the adenoma turned out to be a basic cyst (not cancerous), so that's good.

although he came through the procedure really well he wasn't urinating too well so he had to stay at the vets an extra day - which was not good for him. and then he took a real downturn a few days after being home.

he doesn't do well with new situations or changes in routine, so, i expected a bit of a problem - not as bad as it was, tho. he ended up losing a lot of weight and was so bad with being depressed and stressed, that i went against doc's orders and put pixie in with him a lot sooner than i should have. it really made a difference for him, though.

he's still in the process of regaining weight. and is almost back to his usual personality - just have to get the digestive system back on track from the antibiotics and he'll be okay. doing yogurt to help with that - and metro; which he doesn't like now that it comes already compounded (he liked it okay when i had the tablets and mixed it with water and then put it in his food...this stuff is just plain nasty even in the food!)

i got the guinea pigs in and they have gone over very well!! even finola is eating them!! still not sure if she's eating the mice or not...i think liking the gp's will get her past whatever issue she has with the mice, tho! also got some chicks and everyone likes them.

i finally got the chart done. took me a few times to get it reworked what with adding in the gp's and the chicks. and i did do the kidney as a weekly thing since they're are still not eating much of it at all. only boo seems to really enjoy it - all the rest just pick at it. winston still is having issue with bringing it up - although he will eat a little bit now. finola sometimes has issue with it (gags and won't eat it) and pixie just gags...so, she's not eating any at all.

i'm throwing out more than they're eating of it. i've mixed it with chicken, quail, duck, yogurt and put tone in with it and still am not seeing a very good response. so, that'll have to be small portion weekly until they get past the issues. more ideas on what to do, please!!

since they are eating the gp's and the quail (i have 2 week and full grown size), they are getting organs - kidney - so, is the issue with them not eating all that much of the kidney meal not that much of an issue?

liver has not been a problem at all for anyone - so that's at the normal every other week.

i got the medium gp's (they only had medium and large when i did the order) and they're bigger than i'd thought they'd be. the mice i have are the 'large' size - although, the sizes aren't consistant in the bags. the chicks are 3-day old size - bigger than i'd thought they'd be, actually.

double underlined items are meat w/bones and single underlined items are things with some bit of bone in them. the chicken items with a single underline are legs or wings and they do usually eat all the bone (i cut the bones to make them easier for them to get into), so, those should probably be marked with double underline - they don't always eat all the bone, tho, so i left it single.

the chicken without underline is breast meat (white) and the turkey i didn't underline at all since, other than the necks, they can't eat those bones. i do give turkey breast meat (white) every other week and wings or thigh meat (dark) the other. the duck i didn't underline as they usually don't eat the bones from that even if i cut through them to make smaller pieces.

i think the way i mixed everything up will be sufficient for proper calcium intake. let me know if i need to do a mix of sizes for mice, chicks and gp's or change things to add more bone in!

i did a clickable thumbnail for the chart - it's far too large to do a regular img link!

[Heather]

I'm sorry that July has been less than stellar for you and your little ones. I'm sorry that Noodle had to have surgery. Ferrets are so sensitive and really can't be without their friends. I would have probably done the same thing, adding a friend or two on a downward spiraling little one. In a case like that I would have risked it.
Your diet for your little ones is great. It looks awesome. I would lean toward adult animals when possible as the younger they are the less calcium and trace mineral nutrients they have had time to build up.
I'm guessing that their stools are ok on their present diet? If they start to get loose up the bone but at the moment with your diet leaning more toward prey it looks really good. If your guys hate the kidneys so much don't feed them. Use them as a treat for your one little one who likes them, use the liver as your organ meat and whatever innards that they get from their prey. They're eating a good diet. You've got great variety even with your prey. Excellent work. You and your little ones have graduated from the program. I will give you time to read through and respond and ask any questions before I lock your thread and place it in the archive. You will be able to go in and check it if you need information but you won't be able to post to it. If you have any questions please feel free to pm me at any time and remember you also have the whole forum at your fingertips. Please keep me posted as to Noodles progress and I wish you and him a healthier time of it. Good luck and
ciao

[joclyn]

their poo is generally very good. only times i see really runny type is after organ meals and that's not all of the time either.

they seem to do a good bit of regulating what they eat and when and seem to be keeping themselves balanced. smart lil critters

good news with noodle!!!! he had a perfectly formed poo this morning!! first one in a month. *wipes brow* thank goodness he's getting back on track. actually, probably is completely back on it now as he was giving me what-for this morning when i had to put him back in the cage to go to work

yeah, a few more questions will definitely pop up. i'm am full with too much stuff going on this week and through the weekend, so, if you can leave this open for a couple weeks, that should cover any residual questions.

thanks for all your help!

[joclyn]

just realized what it is that i couldn't think of the past few times i worked on the chart. eggs!!

pfft, i ordered quail eggs from hare today - got chicken eggs instead (which no one really seemed to like except boo). had other (major) problems with this order, too, so, won't be ordering from them again.

i think the butcher can get everything i want though. i REALLY liked the duck necks - perfect size (chicken are too small and turkey too big).

[Heather]

I will leave it open for you...no problem. I'm sorry that you had problems with Haretoday....you're not the first to complain about their orders. Have you tried Rodentpro? You might be able to get what you need through them? If you have any questions, keep popping in. I will hold your thread open (you know that you could always pm me too )
ciao