Joclyn's Switching Thread

[joclyn]

yes, i order from rodentpro. they pack extremely well to keep the stuff frozen!

haretoday does not - even when you leave a pound of space available and request extra freeze packs. as much as i like the selection she has and the pricing isn't all that bad, shipments arriving defrosted is an issue. fully defrosted, that is, not partly, and it's just not acceptable. and the bags aren't secure - this order, since most of it was completely defrosted when it arrived, had blood/liquid all through it because of outright holes in the bags as well as the side seals not being complete so there were little pin-hole sections leaking fluids. and then there was most things weren't vaccuum sealed - again, that's due to the seals on the bags not being complete.

and there's some things that aren't clear on the website - looks one way and when you get it, it's cut in a completely different way. for dogs or cats, it wouldn't be an issue. for ferrets it is though when you need to balance percentages of bone, meat, organ...with their rabbit and duck, you just can't do it. if you can't tell what part of the animal that chunk is, how can you know how much meat/bone/organ there is in it. i was told i was being petty about that. ? i couldn't tell what parts of the animal i was pulling out of the bag so how could i know the balance of bone/meat? once it's defrosted, you gotta use it; can't refreeze, so, i was stuck a lot of times with either too much bone or organ and not enough meat or the other way around.

this second order sat for a day, all packed up, before ups picked it up. it's no wonder it was so defrosted when it got here on the 2-day ship - dry ice only lasts about 24-36 hours! and that's blocks of it, not the loose crystals they use!! the two little freeze packs that weren't placed properly in the box didn't help keep things cold at all. i was extremely disappointed about it.

i think the butcher can get most of the stuff she offers. not sure though as i haven't been able to get a hold of him.

[Heather]

Sometimes, less variety and better quality is the order of the day. As long as you've got a good supply of 3 different types your doing great. Perhaps, you can get other things, maybe not as often but if there is less loss you're farther ahead anyway. Also remember that you can refreeze for your furkids. I know it's not advised for human consumption and you degrade the meat a bit nutritionally, it still provides good quality food for your furkids. I got this information from the butcher, so don't throw out the meat that has defrosted because you feel you don't need it at the time and it will be bad before it's used.
ciao

[joclyn]

yes, if i've defrosted something in the fridge, i'd consider refreezing it. it's the stuff that defrosted on the truck while in transit that is an issue.

i did refreeze all of that as i really had no choice there was so much defrosted and now i am seeing some funky poo and glum behaviour after giving those items to them. and some of the raw meat has an 'off' odor when it's defrosted, too. i don't notice any off odors from other things - even after they've been sitting out all day...

yes, typical me going overboard with the variety! the concentration of the various nutrients is different from species to species, even within the same family, so, i do think that's better. if it can be maintained. it's nice to have the reassurance that i don't need to be that detailed about it! thanks!

their wild counterparts mainly eat rodents only, so, maybe i'm just worrying too much about it.

omg, i can't believe how much they like the gp's! really makes me wonder if i should do just a prey diet rather than mixing prey with pieces of raw meats.

at the least, i will mix sizes up more and will definitely get the large gp's on the next order. i've been getting the large mice; should i get some of the extra large ones? or move up to rats?

could i do a strictly prey-only diet and still meet nutritional needs properly? i haven't thought about it too much or done any looking around the site, or anywhere else, yet, to get info about it. if i were to do that, then proper calcium intake would be about the only issue/concern, wouldn't it? and maybe organs?

[Heather]

You can go whole prey if you choose. According to my mentor (yes, I have one too ) you won't be able to cover their calcium needs. She covers this by adding bonemeal to the equation. She feeds a predominantly rabbit base, claiming that mice won't cover their needs, uses them as treats. Your variety of feeding GP, large mice...I would try rats, my guys love them. How does rabbit fit in with your guys or have you tried it? She still feeds with meat pieces too. She also feeds one meal of organ meat on top of the prey that they eat. I've also started supplementing some cod liver oil with this about .25 mls, they get it as a treat and love it. I'm waiting to see how this changes up in their coats as they're starting the seasonal shed and their coats always look rather dry and coarse at this time.
I've never tried GP, I wish that I could get that type of variety for prey. I'm still looking you never know. Looks great. Keep me posted of the changes and how they're received
ciao

[joclyn]

yes, i do give rabbit. still need to get with the local butcher to see if that is something he can get for me at a reasonable price. it's really too bad i'm not going to use hare-today anymore...obviously, that's the rabbit source!

ahh, good, i think i'm going to up the amount of the prey items i give them, then. and i'll add in rats, too.

they do love the necks and usually eat all the bone from them - chicken and duck are much easier to deal with; the turkey they do eat a good majority of the bone - only the larger bits at the one end don't get eaten, so, i could give neck more often. as it is now, almost everything has bones in it, so, even if i switch out a few meals with the add'l prey items, i think they'll be okay with their calcium.

if i can find the bonemeal, i can go all prey. that really is SO much easier than cutting stuff into portions before freezing.

[Heather]

Sounds good. I would still continue to feed things like necks and some turkey, just in case you can't get prey or at sometime your shipment either doesn't make it or it's shorted. It's much easier to cover the whole spectrum rather than having a bunch of ferrets going on a hunger strike because you can't supply what they're used to eating.
ciao

[joclyn]

finola is definitely eating mice. yay!

i did another order from rodentpro and got more gp's. lol, need to do another one (since i split that order with someone) because i don't have enough of everything! i'd also gotten a few of the small whole rabbits - haven't offered them yet, tho.

i planned on keeping necks as part of the diet - they're just so wonderful for the bone/calcium and then there's the cleaning action on the teeth. and of course the hearts and the organ meats - they get some with the whole prey - just not really enough and with the way they don't all eat at the same time, it's possible someone may always get the organs and the others don't get any, so, have to keep them in the picture.

should i redo the chart with all this in mind?

[Heather]

You can if you like but truthfully, it's more for your own benefit than mine or the groups. You've graduated all ready If you would like me to check it out, I will but you seem to have a really solid grasp as to what you're doing and appear to be doing it correctly. Many wouldn't have thought about the ferrets sharing their meals and then possibly not getting everything they need nutritionally. I like the idea of keeping in some frankenprey (in your case the necks) because it's true, it does offer more nutrients and they're specific nutrients that you're looking for. My mentor is of the firm belief that a lot of our ferrets over here are calcium deprived because of the whole prey thing. She feeds whole prey too, but also frankenprey and she also supplements with bonemeal or calcium powder. Her ferrets are intact though and that type of stress doesn't affect our furkids quite as much, so I'm thinking that nutritionally speaking our guys might actually not need as much as a full unaltered working ferret.
ciao

[joclyn]

okay. and thanks for the compliment! i do always try to be thorough and think of every possibility.

and, then, finola really brought it home when she started losing weight after being switched. once i put her by herself to be sure she really was eating the raw, she was. it was just a matter of 'how' she eats that was the problem when she was in the cage with the big boys (the late alters). they are piglets and usually attack the food immediately. she, on the other hand, is more dainty in her eating habits.

she was always one to nibble on a few pieces of kibble then go off and come back a couple hours later to nibble again. she's still doing that with the raw and prey stuff. so, she was losing out on her portion of what was there. so, different cagemates, who's habits match to hers better, has worked out quite well

i guess you can close this thread up, then. any other questions that arise i can just post in one of the sections in the other areas.

[Heather]

You can always pm me if you like. I'm available anytime you need to ask questions. I also don't want you to think I"m blowing you off. I really think of a lot of my students who've graduated you are probably one of the most capable .
ciao

[joclyn]

you said i could always pm you - and i need to, i will, you can be sure of that

i know for a while there, there was a backlog of people needing mentors, so, don't want to hold you up any longer (it's been long enough) from helping someone else!

[Heather]

We're ok....you have to participate to get a mentor, that backlog was really easy to get through....some had only posted the once, to apply for a mentor and never once returned to the board. I believe we have one right now, so you're not taking anyone's place. Do you want to continue with this thread? You can if you like
ciao

[joclyn]

heya, heather

been running around like crazy here. had a show and also had more doc appts & tests for me.

i have ibd and it's not food-related so, won't be easy to clear up had a flare-up just before the last test and then that cleared out and i'm in another one now. *sigh*

anyhoo.

show!

taco took 1st in chocolate again and grizel surprised with 1st in roan!! obi placed in alter - not as well as last time, tho. finola did okay in dew...she STILL doesn't have fur on the tail; even with the des implant AND the melatonin implant! i'm at the point where i'm wondering if the des is working as well as it should be. her body fur looks fabulous and she gained some weight/muscle mass. still. that tail!

besides insulinoma, taco also has a bit of ibd...we take our meds together every day

i have been making efforts to get back to introducing the last three to raw. grizel still wants nothing to do with it - makes faces. taco is interested and will lick my fingers clean and take small bits that he stashes and chews at or licks - is not actively ingesting anything tho. chauncey will lick meat juices off my fingers and sometimes will take a piece of meat and stash it. the other day he tried to bite my finger and stash it...lol, so, i gave him a decent chunk of the chicken. nope, he didn't want that...not even to stash. just wanted to continue licking the chicken liquid off my fingers silly boy!

my last order from rodentpro, i got the small rabbits - still haven't put them on the menu tho - i want to do that on a weekend as well as when putting on winter weight (eating more) kicks in because of the size of them. they're anywhere from 1/2 pound to pound and a quarter.

finola, pixie and noodle all have increased appetites. boo, dunc, obi and winston aren't eating all that well. i didn't get time to weigh them the past couple weekends - which didn't matter as they were in to the vet so i have those weights...i just haven't had time to update my running list to make comparisons to see who is not at the right weight (aka who isn't eating enough).

the only one that 'feels' lighter is dunc and his weight (as per from both vets as he's been seen by both in the past month) is the same. the four were eating at 6-8 ounces at a meal (twice a day) and it's been down at between 4-6 (with an occassional 7-8 here and there) for a while now. and they should be ramping up for winter, too, and i'm not seeing it.

they do devour the gp's, tho, and i think they're more 'dense' so maybe that's holding them better? i've been giving the gp's twice a week and the x-large mice twice a week, too. i don't see much leavings from either item, either.

so, a little worried. obi is having some problems with an impacted scent gland and was a bit blah before that appeared obvious - a week before the impaction appeared he had an episode of wanting to vomit and not bringing anything up and was dragging for days afterward. i never did figure out what caused it - it was hours after their dinner had been eaten (of course, this happened in the middle of the night). the gland isn't infected - and i'm treating it. still not completely cleared up yet tho.

[Heather]

I"m sorry that you are having IBD attacks. Do they have any idea as to the cause? Not prying, it just often relates to the treatment and to how to avoid your next attacks. You must be able to truly sympathize with your IBD boy .
Not bad at the show. Well done.
Poor Obi, an impacted scent gland must be of awfully uncomfortable. Poor wee boy. I hope he starts to feel better soon.
You have my sympathies with the stubborn ones. I have one right now. Little Yuri. He came to me looking a bit on the thin and hungry side, there was no food that came in with him so I started the switch and picked up some kibbles. He didn't like the kibbles, so usually the ferret then likes the raw...no way. I got him in July...he's still not fully switched. I really have to keep a close eye on him, he'd just as soon starve to death. He also won't hunt You really have to wonder what has gone into the breeding of some of these farm ferrets
My guys love the baby bunnies. Just remember because they're young, they won't have the high calcium and minerals that their adult counterparts. Sounds like your guys love the GPs though. I don't know much about them as a meat source because I've not found a supplier. I'm really going to have to track down some snake and reptile suppliers to get at some of the more exotic prey animals.
You've had problems with Dunc before with not putting on weight the way he should My brats are mostly eating me out of house and home (except Yuri ). I've noticed a couple of complaints by others about their furbrats upping their intake.
Give the little ones a big hug and tell them I told them to start eating their winter dinners...they're worrying their momma and it's not good for her to worry Get well
ciao

[joclyn]

i had no idea you'd added to your biz! congrats!!!! he's still getting settled in at your place - once he's fully situated/comfy, i'm sure he'll start eating better! did you post any pics of him? i don't see him in your siggy...

yes, i now have a much, much better understanding of what ferrets with ibd experience. it's excruciatingly painful.

this is not food-related - which would make it so much easier to deal with. it's stress-related - i've had far too much coming at me from far too many directions and for far too long. been on medications for a little over a month and have seen some improvment...still need something for some of the symptoms though, lol, i'm tempted to just start taking the carafate i have for taco!

duncan is the same weight - just seems to be redistributed differently. the four of them didn't touch the chicken i put out this morning. nothing; not even a nibble! i wonder if it's bad? didn't smell bad or feel sticky when i put it on the hook. and the other three ate their piece - just a small piece of bone left in thier cage. so, i really don't think the other piece (from the same package) was bad.

ehh. they must know gp's were on the menu and were waiting for the good stuff

yes, the baby bunnies won't be all that calcium filled. i only got them to fill in the box - was the only thing that would do without going over to an additional box. i'll see how they do with it and, at some point move to larger sizes and will have to do a whole group feeding or cut the thing up (not sure if i can do that when there's a head and fur on it tho).

i may actually be able to put the 7 back in one cage! i've been doing playtimes with all of them - watching how boo acts towards noodle and things have been going very well. have found them cuddled up together numerous times - they've gone back & forth with seeking each other out, too. looks like the des implant is fully working in boo!!