Joclyn's Switching Thread

[joclyn]

boo had a bit of bad breath, too. it did get a little better with the raw - was still there and noticable some days tho. she said the roots were bad and that it was moving around in the socket whenever he munched. poor lil guy! and what ticks me off is i'd wanted to do a dental on him last year - long before he was diagnosed with adrenal (although, i thought he was and people and vets kept telling me 'no, he's not') that vet was way off!! his gums were irritated/red and a dental certainly was called for - and now boo has lost a tooth because of it not being done timely.

sigh.

put the liver out - boo ate it right away and finola ate a little bit while i watched/encouraged her. the others didn't go for it right away. just checked and boo and/or finola ate a good amount of it and the big boys barely touched it.

not too pleased with the hare today order. items were misrepresented and it will be hard to use the stuff the way it's sliced up (not cut, literally just sliced in chunks). and most of it was not vaccuum sealed, either. not happy at all to spend all that money and most of it will be thrown out.

[Heather]

I'm sorry to hear about your order You're not the first person that I've heard complain about their shipments, but I don't know if it was haretoday or not . That's a lot of wasted money if you can't use it Have you tried to file a complaint? Do you suppose it might be worth posting it in the feeder section (not sure exactly where) that you weren't happy with the order. I know that a lot of people recommend them, myself included. I don't use them (they don't ship up here) but it's a name that has come highly recommended and when people ask I usually suggest either haretoday or rodentpro.
Would you say that your liver adventure a success? or do you think that you will find an alternative way to try and get it into your little ones? Boo and Finola appear to be regular munchers.
ciao

[joclyn]

yeah, i will be sending her a note about the order. would have done it yesterday except i had water in the basement and then the power went off - just came back on a couple hours ago.

so, numerous complaints to file - hare today; the power company (they didn't even come out and look at the issue for over 15 hours) so, i don't know if any of the stuff is usable now - was partially defrosted when i opened the box and fiddling with it and repackaging to smaller portions and throwing in freezer was no issue...i reorganized the freezer shortly before the power went off so it wasn't down to proper temp and the power being off for almost a full day. even though it's though it's packed full...dunno about using anything.

*sigh*

on the liver front, boo ate it. finola ate some and i'll assume she went back later and had more - i put out 3 oz for those two and none was left. the big boys on the other hand, barely touched it - or maybe they did. hard to tell once it dried out some and shrivelled and then even though it was daylight, being overcast, the room was dark and no light to turn on was hard to see.

i did cheat at that point and took the liver and diced it up and drizzled juice from the defrosted hearts over it. which spurred some interest - winston had a piece and then stashed some and duncan had a piece or two. obi still wasn't interested.

they did end up eating some of it though - hunger'll do that. only had chicken wings that were in the fridge to put out (didn't want to open either freezer door again since i'd already done so when i shouldn't have). and the boys devoured that in no time.

maybe if i do the heart juices and maybe some ferretone straight off, they'll eat the liver. and i can try a soupies with the liver and some chicken breast or something. can also force it in, too, if i have to.

[Heather]

I"m sorry about the power outage. If it's the ferrets' food your concerned about it should be ok as long as it stayed cold. I've thawed meat to repackage and then froze it again. It's something you have to do when you take shipments of a couple of hundred lbs.
Feeding organ meats becomes an adventure in trial and error It sounds like you did have a good success with what you did. Changing it up when you saw it wasn't working is a good idea. You do what you have to do.
ciao

[joclyn]

well, i'll try a few more things a few more times with the boys with the liver before i force feed it to them...and if i do have to resort to a soupie thing, that's not so bad because they do need to still be familiar with that form for the times when they're really sick. and i haven't even done raw eggs yet. that might be something good to mix the liver with. i may even sprinkle on some of the nupro powder - will be really funny if i do that and they eat the stuff, now, won't it!?

on a good note and a bad note: i put out just about 3 oz of chicken for boo & finola this morning. figuring 1 1/2 for each which is about what they've been eating at a sitting.

well!! boo chowed down and ate ALL of it (good)...finola was asleep and didn't even know she missed breakfast (bad) so, i defrosted some more so she'd have some

he's obviously feeling better now that his tooth issue is resolved and he ate lots of bone yesterday - gave chicken necks - geez, they're the perfect size for a meal!!!

some of the stuff i had in the fridge wasn't completely defrosted - still had ice crystals, so, i know that stuff will be okay. and the stuff that was further defrosted should be also since i didn't open the door and had the more solid frozen stuff on top of it.

only thing i'm really concerned about is the turkey hearts. they weren't all whole hearts - they froze the hearts in a huge chunk and then sawed through in bunches to make up the bag with 2 pounds worth so, there were lots of little bits/pieces that defrosted sooner. i was going to give them for dinner saturday night and just break up the big chunks into smaller portions to keep frozen...then the power went off, so that idea went out the window. and that's what i hurried and grabbed out of the fridge to put into the big freezer in the basement...which doesn't seem to be holding temps right - it wasn't set at the coldest setting, so i adjusted that last night - still, this morning it was still at 10 Far. when it should have been at 0 Far (or lower as is how it usually is). i do have it packed really full now though - most of everything was frozen tho, so, it should have gone down to proper temp by this morning. i may have to get it serviced.

still having some rain and all the snow melt hasn't actually gotten down here yet so, still have flood watchs/warnings in effect. rain is light tho, so, i shouldn't (hopefully) have any more water in the basement. might have trouble getting home from work though. no matter which way i travel (i have 4 options) i have to pass lots of streams that are close to the road and deal with the skuykill river in two different spots, so, hopefully things won't crest high enough to overshoot the banks...

how are things going there??? is everyone getting adjusted after the loss? you and the fuzzies?

[Heather]

Hopefully, your turkey hearts will be ok. I would feed them unless they smell off
That's great that it turned out to be totally dental and that now it's resolved Boo's eating really well. He probably feels he needs to make up for lost time...I know that Napoleon did (and he doesn't...little fatty :
Things aren't going too badly. Thor and Odin appear to have resolved the issue of losing Loki (I miss him though). I think because he's was basically sick since about Sept and very sick for about a month before he passed on, they're very accepting. Unless, I feel that there's a danger, I usually don't segregate my sickies away from their business. They seem to go downhill faster if they are isolated into the hospital cage. I also leave my little ones on a blanket by the sleep boxes for a couple of hours after they pass on. It gives everyone time to sniff and move on. Lady "B" cleaned Loki's ears and Odin and Thor had curled up with him when I first brought him home but they had all moved to the sleep boxes when I went to put them in their rooms. The Furry Fang Gang had bore the brunt of Loki's hatred for small females so they didn't need to say goodbye, I just wrapped him up in the receiving blanket and put him in the freezer until spring and I can give him a proper burial in the ferret garden. Now, I've got little Nicky-nick (Nicodemus) who's in the final stages of adrenal. He's going to get a lupron shot this week to see if it offers him some relief but if not..... Sometimes running a hospice is a tough These are the times
ciao

[joclyn]

boo is MUCH more his normal self! i'd actually forgotten how intent he can be and how much he wants to interact (it's been quite a while what with the adrenal and that tooth issue has been around for at least a year i think - his gums were all flared up this time last year).

it is SO good to see him being his old self again!! you'd never know he's almost 5 he's so active!! and it's rubbing off on finola, too, i think! plus, just being on the raw which is so much better for them!!

i agree, i keep them in with the biz as long as is possible and if i do have to use the sick cage, i'll still put someone in with them for part of the day - everyone needs someone to cuddle with when they don't feel well.

sorry to hear nicky isn't doing well. lupron would definitely be something to try - i would suggest going with a dose higher then the minimum (go with 200 mg at least) and make sure it's got the added med to make it time-released - otherwise it'll be out of his system within a couple days and that's not going to help any.

can you get the deslorelin or suprelorin implants there in canada? i've heard nothing but good things and am trying to get my vet to order them for my four...

i'm defrosting those hearts right now - and yes, anything that smells off won't be used. part of the one bag will probably have to be chucked - it was one of the three things that was partially defrosted when i opened the box. although, maybe i got it into the freezer quickly enough that it was kept chilled enough that it'll still be good. will see shortly!

the freezer did finally get down to the right temp - just needed more time to get there

[Heather]

I'm glad that the freezer is working. I think that's my biggest dread is that one fo the freezers will stop functioning . Deslorin and superlorin aren't available up here except on a as come approval. I had one of my students manage to get some in (her vet is a very good ferret vet in the city, he has connections at the university), unfortunately it took 6 months to clear and the poor little soul passed on before they were able to get it in . I believe that she did manage to use it for her other little adrenal boy. I will have to see what she ordered as she was bringing it in for another little ferret who had gone adrenal too.
ciao

[joclyn]

i'm hoping this vet will be able to get the med fairly soon...i know of another vet in this state that is running a study, so, she may be able to get it through him. will have more info after the next clinic day.

boo is doing fabulous!! the bad tooth was really holding him back! he's gotten much more aggressive with making sure he gets his portion (i've had him with the other boys so i could monitor finola better) and he's eating about 2 ounces per meal. so, has gained back a bit of weight already!! yay!!

and finola is eating 1 1/2 to 2 ounces per meal - so has also gained a little weight. not as much as i'd like - still, a little gain is better than none. she also definitely is chawing on bones. hardly any of the chicken neck bones were left - and i gave her two pieces since they were about an ounce each, so, that was a good amount of bone she also ate most of the chicken wing bones on a different day. still need to get her to eat mice with fur and i haven't even offered her the quail with feathers yet.

the show is this weekend, so, i won't be posting again until sunday or monday.

[Heather]

I"m glad that both Finola and Boo have resolved their issues regarding bone and their dinners.
Are you showing?
Good luck
ciao

[joclyn]

haven't had time to pop in. we're all still alive - just way too busy

i let them eat kibble if they wanted during the show - and some did and some didn't. all very stressed and didn't eat well for most of the weekend and past it. today was normal again.

finola is not eating mice - thought she was. i know she had some. since last week i've given her pinkies, weanlings and adults and i've cut them open. she's not interested.

saw a suggestion elsewhere to chop them up and put them in a soupies to get them used to the taste. i may do that and see if it helps her. cuz, if she won't eat mice, there's no way she's going to work her way through the feathers on the quail!! so, gotta do something!

more later - still exhausted and i'm sitting again and have to clear space for their cage...

hope all's been well with you!

[Heather]

How was the show, despite being stressful?
Yes, you can put the ground up mousies in the soup to see if you can get her to come around to eating mice.
Good luck, rest well
ciao

[joclyn]

sorry i haven't been here - just keep running out of time.

the show was not as stressful this time it's a matter of getting used to it all, i guess - for me and them. even with 3 more in the mix, things flowed really well!!

too tired for details - just wanted to pop in and touch base. will give a proper update tomorrow or saturday!!!

[Heather]

No problem
ciao

[joclyn]

i'm sorry!! last week i did a lot of work in the yard - most notably, had someone come over to take down the dogwood tree and the clean-up from that (and other work clearing out the old leaves from the beds - didn't even get to the weeding) really wiped me out. and the week got away from me...

basically they're holding as they were.

my bad, i forgot to give the liver last week. and i wanted to try the chicken liver again to see if they'd like it better the second time (although, the veal liver i gave the last time did go over pretty well, so, i may just stick with that).

gave them kidney the other day and that didn't really go over too well (like it did the last time i'd given it). i had some of the veal kidney left - it was mostly the beef tho. the veal went over much better, so, in future, i'll stick with that one!

duck hasn't been a big hit. i've got the stuff from hare-today, tho, and that stuff doesn't have any fluids added (like the other packaged stuff i'd given before). so, they've had to get used to that.

the duck and rabbit from hare-today has organs in some of the sawed chunks. no way to know what's there or how much until the stuff is defrosted. should i be worried about extra liver & kidney throughout the week? or is it not enough to really worry about? thing is, with it like that, there's no way i can see who's eating it, so, no way to know if someone is getting too much or if someone is not getting enough.

it's frustrating. the way the meat arrived is not how it's shown on the website - and nothing is mentioned that it's chopped up the way it is. cross-ways across the body; not cut into pieces like legs, breasts, etc. you get a mish-mosh of stuff - bones, organs, meat. some pieces are mostly bone with no meat, others have more organ than meat. no way to know either until you defrost it. basically a waste of money. and i was called petty for saying that.

every piece has spine in it, and you can't see if ribs are in the piece or not. so, you can't tell just how much meat is there when you weigh the pieces either. i don't think i'm being petty for being upset about it. what i got was not what was represented on the site and what i got isn't all that usable to keep things balanced when it comes to how much meat, organ and bone is being given. one pound chunks with bone running all the way through it can't be cut, either. and some pieces are smaller than a pound and some are virtually all bone. that doesn't work at all...

anyhoo.

there's been a bit of slow-down of consumption. partly weather-related with season change and partly it got really hot here last week and now it's back to pretty much normal temps and they're eating a little more than they did last week.

temporarily i have finola in with the group. i'm just giving her opportunity to eat first before i put anyone else in the cage. working okay as long as i have time to set her up for 15 minutes before adding in anyone else.

i also want to pull all of them, individually, and cage them by themselves for a day or two or three so i can get a better idea on how much they eat at a sitting and also what meats they really like and those they don't. no need to try to force them to eat something if the majority really don't like it - i'd rather buy what they like over throwing out stuff.

so, how many sources of meat should they get?? i want to give them balanced nutrients and i know the different types offer some different things.

beef didn't go over well, so i won't do that regularly. i can try veal if this kind of animal meat is necessary for proper nutrition.

chicken, turkey, quail, cornish hen all go over well.

lamb and rabbit usually do, also. goat has been a bust since the initial few times. that could be the supplier, tho.

mice are a go for all except finola - she's hit or miss with the pinkies/weanlings and still hasn't touched the adults.

kidney is pretty much accepted. i will stick with veal as that seemed to be better-liked.

liver, they took to the veal type much better than chicken - still, i'll keep working on the chicken.

brain was a mixed review. which isn't all that big a deal since that's an occassional thing.

i still haven't tried egg yet! i keep forgetting about it!

fish and shellfish i have given - cooked though. some like it and some don't. i'm thinking that will be an occassional item once every couple weeks. i should try something raw though and see if they all like it.

everyone is eating bones. some more than others.

i've found that the chicken necks are really good for the smaller ferts - they can easily deal with the bones and i find very little leavings when they have chicken necks. a little bit more is found when it's turkey or duck necks. still, they're doing well with them!

i've been cracking the larger leg bones to make it easier to deal with - finola doesn't always eat them tho. or boo. even when i do crush/cut them. so, i may have to separate them and give necks more frequently so that they get the minimum requirement. being at or just under 5 and both are adrenal & on meds, i think proper calcium intake would be a big deal for them and it should be focused on. am i correct??

before i can do a true schedule, i need to know what balance of meat sources they need.

i know bone 4 meals a week minimum, liver one meal a week and kidney one meal a week (and that they should be alternated). i don't know what kind of mix of poultry, red meat source, other meat source, seafood source tho.

so, basically, i'm asking how much of each type of meat?

is there a listing anywhere here that details which vitamins/minerals are provided by each type of meat source?? that would help me in developing a good balanced routine.