Seventh heaven goes raw

[ferretpalooza]

1. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names, ages, genders, and do they have any health problems?

Mad Max-3 yrs-male
Miss Sully-2.5 yrs-female
Seed of Chuckie-2.5 yrs-male
Buster Brown-3 yrs-male
Killa man-1 yr-male
Boudreaux pierre-1 yr-male
Bubba boy-4 mths-male.

Sully and Boudreaux are deaf. Sully, Max, Buster, Chuckie, and Killa all had Coccidia and Ghiardia Aug 07, Boudreaux came along in Oct and all 6 then came down with ECE. Bubba is our new baby and has no health issues

2. What are your ferrets currently eating?

Kibble mix Evo cat, Natural Gold, Ultimate 8 in 1.(Recent kibble change 1 month ago, got rid of zupreem and purina kitty and added Evo and nat gold). They eat homemade duck soup together every nite. I simmer ck. thighs, add ferretone, softned kibble, Nupro and pingfords pooridge.

3. Please list the current weight for your ferret(s). Do they appear overweight? Underweight? How is there muscle tone?(measured in lbs/oz)

Max 2.1
Sully 2.8
Chuckie 2.4
Boudreaux 2.3
Buster 2.7
Killa 2.3
Bubba 3.0.

Max was a healthy, fluffy 1 yr old when we adpoted him but as he has gotten older, he is thin and seems fragile. You can feel his bones. The rest seem average except Sully and Bubba who are both very thick and healthy feeling.

4. What is the condition of your ferret's teeth/gums? (can you get a picture?)

Teeth, not too bad, all but Max have the spot of discoloration on the back ones. Gums ok but have a reddish tint around the gum line. Max had a dental done 2 months ago because his teeth were bad and gums bled when I brushed them

5. Describe the texture/color of your ferrets coat.

Sully's spring coat is beautiful and so soft and minky.
Bubba is a baby and has a thick fuzzy coat.
Max's coat is kinda of thin and he has gotten to be a thin, fragile ferret.
The other 4 have fairly soft coats but not real thick. I added Pingfords pooridge to the diet about 3 months ago in the soup mix and it has made a big difference in the coats.

6. How often does your ferret go to the bathroom?

Dont know. They have three large litter boxes that are dumped and cleaned every night. Fair amount of poo

7. Does your ferret's feces and/or urine smell?

Feces smells awful!!! They also go back and forth between formed and somewhat mushy poo. Lots of grainy, birdseed looking poo but have had many fecals done in the last 9 months due to coccidia, ghiardia and ECE and there are no obvious problems in exams.

8. Smell your ferret. How strong is their odor?

Not bad but the bedding is replaced every week and the pans are sprayed down with febreeze and the bedding is dried with nice smelling sheets. It is changed out weekly and the cage sanitized. They get a little minky at the end of the week, but not real strong

9. On a scale of 1-10, 1 being completely lethargic and 10 being "through the roof!" what is your ferret's energy level?

Max-5
Sully, Chuckie, Buster, Killa-7
Boudreaux-8
Bubba-10+

10. How excited is your ferret about meal time (when fed kibble)?

It is kept in cage at all times so probably about as excited as having the litter box in there.....hee hee They do beg for Ultimate 8 in 1 soft when they get out.....they think it is a special treat. Max and Buster love to get cheweasela and foamy fries

11. What other information about your ferret(s) would you like to share?

They are spoiled rotten and are taking over my house...LOL
I did try feeding live prey about 2 mths ago. I got a couple of hopper mice and put on down next to Boudreaux and he took it out in about 15 sec. He ripped its head off and was proceding to eat it and I put another one down next to the rest but it ran by Boudreaux and he reached over and killed that one and then got confused with the two mice. Killa and Buster kept grabbing the headless one and carrying it around but wouldnt eat any. Boudreaux stopped eating and the rest wanted no part of the experiment. We did not have the baby yet, so I dont know what his reaction would be. The vet told me not to feed pet store mice because they may carry parasites and with all the trouble mine have had with parasites and ECE, she doesnt want the whole gang to get sick again. We havent done anything since. I dont have the time or space to raise mice for prey for 7 ferrets.

I would like to start feeding raw. I have a son that moved out so they are moving into that room as soon as I get the extra FN level I ordered (a week-10 dys???). I am going to put a large piece of lineoleum under the cage and set up pens around so they can come out of the cage in a penned area during the day. They are not allowed free roam due to carpet in the room. But this may be a good area to feed raw in the morning and night on the lineoleum and it can just be mopped, so I will continue reading till I get the cage all set up and ask any additional questions and then I am going to try this!!!!!

a.) Do you understand that by starting this thread you commit to posting updates on the progress of your ferret(s) diet switch atleast every other day?**I do now....LOL

b.) Do you understand that if you will be away from your computer for an extended period of time you will need to exchange phone numbers (or email addresses if you don't feel comfortable exchanging numbers) via private message with your assigned mentor, so that we can monitor your progress and ensure your ferret's saftey during the switch? (Please post below letting us know that you and your mentor have exchanged phone numbers or emails)I will send her a pm tonight with my private email and phone number

c.) Do you understand that any threads that have not been updated in for more then a week (with no explaination as to why you are absent) will result in the deletion of the thread?***Yes and I agree that is best!!

[ferretpalooza]

this is kinda of cool. I thawed a boneless chicken breast this afternoon and cut it in tiny cubes. After I warmed their soupies tonight, I threw a bunch in. Chuckie started taking cubes off with him under the chair. He ate about 4 of them. I got Max, Killa and boudreaux to mouth one and carry it off. They all went under the chair, I guess that was the closest thing to a den. Just a little start but they could start to develope a taste for the raw like this, couldnt they?

[Forum Administrator]

Actually if you want to switch that way that could be a way to go There is no "set in stone" way to switch.

Since your babies are already eating soupie I would recommend doing this:

1. Remove all kibble from the cage and just feed them soupy (I know they are gunna think its christmas or the end of the world or something! )

2. Add meat chunks to the soupie (just like you did).

3. Gradually work on increasing the size of the chunks and decreasing the amount of soupy offered.

4. Moniter your babies to make sure they are all eating chunks.

5. When they are eating JUST chicken chunks (and you've weaned them off the soupy with chunks) work on getting them used to eating whole chicken breasts or clumps or chicken thigh meat (ideal because it has fat and skin....better then breasts )

6. From there we can get your babies onto bone. But this is as far as I'll advise your for right now.

Use the soup to your advantage

Now, when you update me do me a favor and update like so:

Max: blah blah blah
Chuckie: blah blah blah

with larger businesses this helps me to keep track of every one

Thanks and good luck! I think we found the perfect method to get your babies switched!

[ferretpalooza]

Woo Hoo, I have a mentor......thanks Heather. I need it because I am real excited to be doing this but I am going into info overload. First, thanks for the suggestion above Guiliana, my concerns are as follows: They are pigs with the soup and I kinda dont want to feed the chunks in the cage because I dont want them to start off stashing. I could go out and get the feeding den today and just leave a door to the FN open and put the bowl down on the linoleum next to it as to have it out of the cage. This may work since they all drag the chucks under the recliner where it is darker so maybe they will do the same? I put a question under enrichment as to if I need separate smaller dens or one big box to cover the entire bottom shelf of the fn??? No kibble??? I had started wetting down the kibble for that method along with chunks in the soup (See?? I think I am being over zealous and trying a bunch of methods....someone please direct me....LOL) Should I maybe make another batch of soupies with raw chicken and start adding a cube or two to the cooked chicken soup? I can come home to freshen up the soupies every 5 hours, is that necessary, or do you just leave them with the cubes until they get hungry enough to eat them.......Ugggg......my head is spinning!!!! Im going to stop reading for a bit and follow your suggestions....LOL Second, we have a ritual when they come out for playtime that they all wait around this cat box for a little 8 in 1 soft (they think this is a treat). Max and Buster wait for a foamy frie or an nbone. Can I still give them treat time when they get out?? It will be hard for me to tell you who is eating cubes during the day but I will do my best.

[ferretpalooza]

OK, soupies this morning.....Max ate two pieces of chicken (pieces are about the size of your little fingernail), Boudreaux ate one piece, Bubba ate one piece, Chuckie started stashing a bunch under the chair so I picked it all up. The other three have no interest. I set up the pens around the cage and put a bowl of chicken chunks (some still have soupies coating) on the rack underneath, with a small box next to the bowl. Im going to work. We'll see what is left later.
The set up:

The chicken and box:

[Forum Administrator]

This may work since they all drag the chucks under the recliner where it is darker so maybe they will do the same?

My guys wil eat their food under the FN nation if I give them the chance. Perhaps if you feed on the linolium (like you said) they will eat outside the cage (under the cage).

I put a question under enrichment as to if I need separate smaller dens or one big box to cover the entire bottom shelf of the fn???

Its whatever you want to do really Whatever works for you best. IMO you probably should put a box in the FN that only covers half the floor. Check out the box in Jasmine's cage:


No kibble??? I had started wetting down the kibble for that method along with chunks in the soup (See?? I think I am being over zealous and trying a bunch of methods....someone please direct me....LOL) Should I maybe make another batch of soupies with raw chicken and start adding a cube or two to the cooked chicken soup?

You've got several options when it comes to switching. Not all your babies will switch at the same time, so that is something to consider. You might have to use multiple switching options Or if you DONT want to use multiple options, then you will need to put the entire group onto the same step. So that means if you have a ferret that only wants wet kibble, well then the whole group gets wet kibble

I can come home to freshen up the soupies every 5 hours, is that necessary, or do you just leave them with the cubes until they get hungry enough to eat them.......Ugggg......my head is spinning!!!!

If you are feeding wet kibble or soupie then every 5 hours you'd freshen it up. If you are feeding just meat chunks then you'd let them sit out for longer. If you are feeding meat chunks IN soupie then you'd folllow the "soupie" rule and refresh the soupie every 5 hours.

Im going to stop reading for a bit and follow your suggestions....LOL

Second, we have a ritual when they come out for playtime that they all wait around this cat box for a little 8 in 1 soft (they think this is a treat). Max and Buster wait for a foamy frie or an nbone. Can I still give them treat time when they get out??

I see no reason why not. You are just switching their diet....not punishing them (although they may think you are at first )

It will be hard for me to tell you who is eating cubes during the day but I will do my best.

Jaycee can help you more then I can, but I think the key is to come home and watch them for a bit and see if you can catch who is eating. Then you make a list with their names and put a "check" by it

[Heather]

Whoo hoo. My head's spinning
Hi I'm Heather I have a small, private rescue/santuary. All ferrets coming in are switched to a raw diet. I presently have 13 furbabies in house. My guys are fed ground raw, whole meat and prey. I presently have one boy in house with IBD. He is for the most part allowed his choice of meats the same as everyone else. All my babies are free roaming, and have access to an outdoor play area. I have a select group of fuzzies (about half of them) who travel with me to art shows and local rescue fund raisers. I do not vaccinate, and treat my guys homeopathically when possible. I do work closely with my vet and will use allopathic remedies when necessary.
Looks like you're well on your way. I agree with Giuli. Use the soupy mix as a starter base. The sooner you get rid of the kibble the faster the change over will be. As you have 7 furbabies you will have to keep track as to who is eating and who is not. You may have to resort to another method to entice some of the others to eat, but let's keep it simple. One thing at a time. Snuggle tests . I have a couple of boys who are really wild children...you never see them eat. I snuggle and poke to make sure tummies are full.
Stashing is a ferret thing. Having feeder boxes helps. You may find that they stash in their cage anyway. You clean out weekly, there probably won't be a problem. Ferrets love to go back and eat....they also like jerky treats...their creations...so don't be surprised. It doesn't upset their tummies...it may upset yours though
Treats...I used something similar with Mad Max. He was my biter par excellance. So I needed something to use as a treat as I clicker trained him. I used 8 in 1 too lol. See if they will eat something a little healthier. Do you have a frost free freezer? Try freeze drying some heart. See if they will start viewing that as treats. To start keep doing what you have, once they start viewing raw as food then you can play with the treats. Let's keep things simple. That way you don't confuse the ferrets or the caregiver
I will check in with you this evening and see how things are going. If you have any questions please feel free to ask, if I haven't got an answer for you on the spot, I will find one for you.
Good luck
ciao

[Forum Administrator]

oh! wanted to add...hang in there! Its overwhelming at first, but you'll get the hang of it! I promise. Once you come up with a "game plan" and you start seeing results (and you know everyone is eating) things get ALOT less stressful

[ferretpalooza]

I was home briefly this afternoon. Noone touched the chicken chunks I left in there. I gave them more soupies with fresh chicken and went out for about 3 hours. The soupies are gone, the chicken is still there. There was a protest poop right smack in the front of a door......LOL They are very grumpy tonight. I will leave the chicken chunks out tonight and put a little kibble with moisture. I bought beef liver, chicken liver, a bag of chicken quarters and some meaty beef ribs. I am going to slice some chicken liver, beef liver, chicken thighs and the beef ribs and put them in the freezer for differrent tastes of freeze dried jerky. I was thinking of separating the rest of the livers in bags and freeze. Im making another batch of soupies tomorrow without nupro, maybe just a little ferretone. I could make a batch of soupies with some raw and I can add a cube to the cooked at a time if you think that may help them develope a taste for the raw chicken. Let me know what next.

[Heather]

. There was a protest poop right smack in the front of a door......LOL They are very grumpy tonight. I will leave the chicken chunks out tonight and put a little kibble with moisture. I bought beef liver, chicken liver, a bag of chicken quarters and some meaty beef ribs. I am going to slice some chicken liver, beef liver, chicken thighs and the beef ribs and put them in the freezer for differrent tastes of freeze dried jerky. I was thinking of separating the rest of the livers in bags and freeze. Im making another batch of soupies tomorrow without nupro, maybe just a little ferretone. I could make a batch of soupies with some raw and I can add a cube to the cooked at a time if you think that may help them develope a taste for the raw chicken. Let me know what next. [/quote]

8-)Ok, I have a question. Your guys obviously love their soupie. So let's play ball with these guys Are there any chunked cooked meat in the soupy mix or is all mushed up?? If it's a total mush, lets try some cooked chicken chunks, just small ones. Let's see if they will eat that. If there is already chunked meat, but it's cooked lets cook it less, leave a little red, pink I guess. Cut back on the nupro but don't eliminate it entirely. You can also try, to see if they will take a tiny bit of meat from your fingers. Some ferts will. The problem that we're encountering is twofold. Taste and texture. If you change too many things at once, they will revolt....and put lots of poopies in front of your doorway...so typical of a fert...footbombs. My guys tell me, everytime I change something that they don't like. I have a series of shows that started Thurs. It means the little bums have to spend their time in their room instead of romping through the house at will all day. So they kicked all the litter boxes into the center of the room and pooped on the floor. Tomorrow, some will go to the show with me, the rest will be upset because they got left at home. It will take me a week of gentle snuggles, reiki treatments and special treats to make peace with my business
I will try and check in with you first thing in the morning before my show. If not I will be in touch later tomorrow night, as I have two shows tomorrow, so it will be later before I get to the computer. Good luck, and talk at you later
ciao

[ferretpalooza]

the soupies is all mush. Im making a new batch tomorrow so I will not grind a few of the thighs up as much and pull a couple early so they still have a little pink. Should I continue to leave some moistened kibble in case we want to use that method later? Only Chuckie and Boudreaux took a piece from my hand this morning. I was offering it to everyone. They will have new chunky soupies in the morning and we'll go from there. I have plenty of paper towels and Odo Ban, they can poo all they want..... lol There are just some things I insist on being alpha about, ya know?? Thanks, have a great time at your shows!!!!!!!

[ferretpalooza]

They didnt eat much kibble last night and soupies wasnt ready this morning. they had their snack and I dribbled a little soup broth on the kibble when I put it back in with a light layer of fresh kibble on the top. (the chicken is cooling). I also crushed some kibble up and coated three wing tips and put it in there for the day in case anyone gets curious enough to try them. All freeze dried jerky in sliced in the freezer now and I save the meaty bones from the beef ribs and a few up up pieces of wings that I will coat with kibble and keep a couple of pieces in every day if you think this is a good idea.

[Heather]

Should I continue to leave some moistened kibble in case we want to use that method later?
**Who's eating it, do you know? or are they all munching it?


Only Chuckie and Boudreaux took a piece from my hand this morning. I was offering it to everyone.

**Hey that's great. Keep doing it. You may get more takers the next time. I find my guys will often watch what one another are doing, especially where food is concerned. I was babysitting 4 furbabies over the Christmas holidays, the owner didn't want to have the hassle of raw so her guys were getting kibble. At the end of 2 weeks, when she came to pick them up, they were all eating a raw diet. I hadn't done anything, they had just watched the others eating and fighting over some choice tidbits and decided to try. You can't be a brat and steal another's tidbits without eating it too

Thanks, I had a lot of fun while the show lasted. We had a horrible storm come in across the lake and literally flatten the show. It was wild, I was so afraid for my little ones, and they slept through it. While tents and tables were literally flying everywhere, they snuggled up and slept through the whole storm.
ciao

[Heather]

I also crushed some kibble up and coated three wing tips and put it in there for the day in case anyone gets curious enough to try them. All freeze dried jerky in sliced in the freezer now and I save the meaty bones from the beef ribs and a few up up pieces of wings that I will coat with kibble and keep a couple of pieces in every day if you think this is a good idea.
**Sounds good, let's see if there are any takers. If you get some nibbles, then I would keep it up. If noone takes a bite, you can try it for a day or two, if nothing happens after a day or so. We'll try again when we're a little closer to eating raw.
I hope you get some takers Good luck ;D
ciao

[ferretpalooza]

No takers on the whole pieces so I threw them away. The ferrets are not eating the moistened kibble either. Someone picked through the soupies around the chicken. I had to work today so by the time I got home I had seriously cranky, hungry, pissed ferrets. They are also adjusting to a new room and completely new setup. I made a big bowl of warm soup and put more chicken cubes in it. Boudreaux and Max are now eating a few cubes when they eat the soup. Chuckie keeps carrying them underneath the chair but only eats one, maybe two. None of the other 4 wanted chicken and Bubba and Killa barely ate soup because of the chunky consistancy. I put a bowl of fresh soup under the cage and just a little kibble in there for them tonight. I keep it that simple for them for now.