Seventh heaven goes raw

[Heather]

I'm sorry to hear that your little meatballs weren't eaten, but the fact that they considered them worthy of stashing is saying something The fact that they are licking from your fingers and tasting is good and that means you are indeed moving forward. I've left the food with my guys overnight, without any problems. So they ate the freeze dried stuff without much difficulty. I still maintain it isn't as much flavour that bothers them it's the texture change (I"m talking not your guys in specific but ferrets in general). Once they get over that then we're away. The ones that are readily eating it off your fingers, will probably take it off a spoon very soon. The others are still not convinced that you're not trying to poison them You will win this, once the ball starts rolling you will be amazed at how fast some of them work with this. I"m off to work, I will check in with you later tonight. Chin up you're doing great
ciao

[ferretpalooza]

Soupies with chicken chunks went well this morning. Boudreax by far is doing the best at eating them out of the bowl. He doesnt eat them all but will stand right at the bowl and eat them. Max joined him this morning at his bowl and started eating them there too. The other 5 kept coming to me after they ate the soup and the chicken chunks were left in their bowl and I would just scruff and put a piece of chicken between the back teeth, then they would run off. Killa, Sully and Buster would run in the dark hall and eat them and come back. Bubba, the baby surprisingly, if fighting this the most. He did run off with a couple of pieces but I didnt see where he went. Chuckie was back under the chair. After they were done, I found three raw chunks under the chair and one dried out one. I fed them all probably 15, not including what Max and Boudreaux ate out of his bowl which was 5 or 6, so we are making progress with soupie chicken. I put two small bowls of kibble in the cage, one plain, and one with the remaining chicken chucks on top dusted with kibble powder.
It seems someone was licking a little of the egg mixture last night but didnt eat the raw meat. Should I try this again tonight? I will go get whipping cream today. How often can they eat the raw eggs? They really didnt get a whole lot of it. Thanks for your help, there seems to be a little switch in those ferret brains going on.....

[Heather]

Ok, we're seeing progress. Cyberhugs going out to Boudreaux for being the brave adventurerer Max too. Sometimes, it only takes one to start the whole ball rolling. Ferrets because they're so curious can't stand to see one of their own getting something they're not. Now, Baby Bubba...doesn't he know that he should be the one to switch without any problems...trust the youngest to be the hold out
I use the egg and meat mix as my duc soup (as well as my main switching mix). I had a furbaby eat that as his mainstay food, with no ill effects. It's saved more than one of my business when they get really sick. So for the little time that you are going to be using it to switch, I wouldn't worry. You can try it again, and see if you get any takers. It does appear after much holding out that your guys are considering eating the soupie mix, which is great. We take our wins where we can Looks like the ball is finally in your ball park now, and your furbabies are starting to get the idea. You really are doing fantastic. You're switching 7 furbabies all at once. You're doing good, really good. They will love you for it in the end. Keep it up, I will check on you in the morning

[ferretpalooza]

We didnt do anything last night. Max threw up yesterday morning a little and he was eating a foamy fri and I came around the corner to see his mouth and paws in blood. I washed his feets off and no cuts so I think the foamy fry hit his gums so hard they started to bleed, I dont know, he was fine and jumping around this morning. Soupies went well, all chicken was eaten except two pieces. I made less soup so they wouldnt be as full and put ferretone on the remaining pieces. Boudreaux, Killa and Bubba were my meat eaters. Sully is the one carrying the pieces around and dropping them although I think she ate one or two. Buster and Chuckie were hold outs today. Ill try some more egg/ground meat tonight. Now I am not susposed to be cooking the egg, right?? Im also going to get a couple of hopper mice this weekend and let Boudreaux hunt again

[Heather]

You're right, the egg is raw, just like the meat.
Ok, we've got 3 little carnivores, one sitting on the fence, two no goes and Max? How is he doing, Ok? Is he eating ok today? What about his mouth? Looks like your soup for the most part is a hit. Now to get the last two furbrats to eat meat in some way. Sully might actually start eating a little more, he's carrying the food around in his mouth it's only a matter of time until he realizes that it is indeed food.
I'm thinking Boudreaux is going to really enjoy his weekend He might teach a couple of the other guys what it's all about? I'm taking that you're going to go with live prey?! Are you going to let the whole business hunt?? It might stimulate a couple of the others to give it a try. Napoleon and Loki loves to hunt but they won't eat them Which is ok as they do eat whole meats and as far as I'm concerned as long as they're eating raw I'm not going to sweat the technicalities There's enough of my business that eat rodents that I never worry they're going to be wasted.
Let me know how it goes, and if your two little hold outs will actually eat their dinner. Let me know if Sully's actually eating his dinner or just stashing it.
I will check back with you later.
ciao

[ferretpalooza]

Yes, live prey. I did this about 2-3 months ago and Boudreaux took out him mouse in about 15 seconds, ripped the head off, ate it and started on the rest of the mouse. I put one down next to the rest and he ran away and by Boudreaux so Big B reached over and dispatched him too. Then he got confused with two mice and quit eating. The rest of them just started carrying it all over the place. That wasnt cool in the house. I now have their cage set up with a penned area they can stash anything they want so if he does the same thing, Ill put him in the pen with the mouse and we'll see what they all do. He does seem to be my leader. Bubba the baby is just a retard. He's such a brat and terrorizes the whole business. The skin on his back between his shoulder blades has all kinds of scabs and pulled out hair from everyone holding him down and scruffing him but he gets back up and jumps on their head. Ive never had a kit with so much energy.....ha ha he doesnt take much seriously. Max is fine. I could not find any cuts on his gums either but he ate soup and was jumping around wrestling this morning. Ill be glad when they start eating raw to help the gum issue too. Thier gums do bleed a little sometimes when I brush teeth. Ill keep you posted tomorrow afternoon on progress and our live prey experiment.

[Heather]

Automatic teeth cleaning is indeed one of the benefits of raw feeding. It so does work.
I will be very interested to see how your canned hunt goes. You might want to try using only one mouse at a time if you can work it. I find that my guys are more likely to argue over the mouse (surprising, that's what you want)...I've had a couple actually start eating prey that way. Ferrets just don't share very well and you can't let your neighbour eat that mouse. There's only one way you can stop that and you don't want to share, so you eat it so the others can't have it.
Kits are so much fun, but they really don't get the whole social structure thing Napoleon was like that. I don't know who scruffed him more, me or the business He was always in trouble. Jumping on the old farts, biting the ladies in their bums. Jumping on the alpha male. The list of his transgressions was endless. He used to love to launch himself from the bed, the sofa and grab your thigh as you walked by....sometimes he missed and crashed an burned...poor little sod. I would really feel sorry for him ... then he would run over and bite my foot and it would start all over again.
I will check up on you tomorrow. Good luck..happy hunting

[ferretpalooza]

I think Napoleon and Bubba must be long lost cousing......Ha Ha, we stepped back a little today. Some friends called at the last minute this morning and I went tubing all day in the river. The kids didnt get morning play time so I had protest poops all over the place. I made soupies and dumped the rest of the egg/cream from last night along with some fresh chicken chunks. Weird weird weird, killa and chuckie took over Boudreaux's bowl and ate all the chicken out of it standing at the bowl. Boudreaux wouldnt touch and chunks, Sully dragged a couple off and ate them. bubba and max and buster wouldnt touch the chunks. They must sit around the cage and draw kibble to see who eats chicken chunks tonight and change it up to screw with me.....LOL Have you ever heard of a business starting off like this where it is someone different every night eating the raw? Ill be doing the hunt tomorrow. Ill get two and hold one back in the mouse pen I have. Would you suggest to let them run out of food over night and maybe make a heavy chunk laden soup in the am. Maybe if they were all hungry at the same time, they may eat more together as it seems everyone has now eaten the chicken once or twice.........just a thought.

[Heather]

Fuzzbutts...you gotta love them Now they didn't want to make it easy for you that's all. Keep momma on her toes....we'll play count toes and the one that looses gets to eat the kibbles. What your guys are doing isn't uncommon, the one thing that you can say is that they will all eat your mixture.
I don't normally fast but....that being said once I've seen everyone eating the raw, then I let them go a bit hungry...because of my schedule (home most of the day, work in the evening and then back later at night) I would let them have the raw food while I was at home, watch the bowl, offer them the food, spoon feed if I thought they were holding out a little. Then I allowed them their kibbles at night. Your guys are busy playing you a little, I think....so typically fertish of them. I would be tempted to let them go without a little tonight and see what happens in the morning. If you're going to be home (basically supervising) I would be very tempted to remove the kibbles all together for the day and only offer the raw mixtures and see where it gets you. You may have to reintroduce the kibbles later that night again but I think that you're making major progress.
If you think of them as fussy little cfhildren then you have the whole idea. It's rather like telling a child that he has to eat something other than peanut butter sandwiches. You offer him a grilled cheese instead. At first he won't try it...bleck. Then you get him to taste it...claims he doesn't like it .... you tell him he has to eat a quarter to get his favourite...he humours you and eats it. He discovers he likes it and eat the whole thing. The next day he wants his peanut butter and claims that he never liked the cheese and throws a tantrum. He goes over to the neighbours and low and behold he eats the cheese sandwich, no fuss. Your ferrets have reached that stage of your dilema:) They've discovered the raw, they even like it but they still want their kibbles. Have you ever given up carbs for a few days? No pasta, no grain, no potatoes. The cravings are terrible, your ferret is going through those same cravings. They now know that there's food out there that's good, it makes them feel better but like an alcoholic they still crave their kibbles. On some of the raw lists we refer to kibble fed cats and ferrets (dogs don't count they usually switch without a twitch of a whisker) as kibble addicts. There's a reason. I can't keep kibble in my house or my old cat will go crazy trying to get at it, even after all these years he will claw at a door to try and get to the kibbles. I've had ferrets turned in who will hold out from eating raw as long as there is kibbles in the house.
I will check back with you tomorrow to see how your hunt went and see who's eating raw tomorrow Eventually, they will let you relax a little and all of them will eat the raw together. Silly little ferts
ciao

[ferretpalooza]

I got a hopper and set it in front of Boudreaux. He was right on it. Killa kept taking it from him. I put a couple of boxes in there and they would go in and out of them. Someone bit it to where a little intestines are hanging out. Noone is eating it. Killa dropped it in the food bowl....ha ha, he has the right idea. Everyone else came to smell or follow the ferret with the mouse. I let them go on for a while with this. Then the mouse got stashed and Im not really sure where it is. Its somewhere in their cage and Im cleaning that later so when I find it I will leave it overnight in a feeding box. I was thinking of feeding them soupies with chucks of fresh chicken before bed and no kibble tonight. I was going to leave strips of fresh chicken slices, a few of the freeze dried slices and one chicken wing and see what happens. none of mine are sick so even if they go 8-9 hours without kibble, they ought to be ok dont you think? Ill give them egg/cream/fresh chicken for breakfast. What do you think of that plan?

[Heather]

Have they eaten today? If they've eaten at least one good meal today go ahead and let them think about breakfast Now you said that mouse was stashed in a cage someplace right? They've got a snack if they want it. In the words of Marie Antoinette, the great queen of Fertdom...."let them eat mice"
I think your idea is a good one. They've all eaten raw now, it's time they seriously thought about it as dinner instead of snackies.
Sounds like a plan, I will check on you tomorrow morning to see how it all went down
ciao

[ferretpalooza]

no takers on the mouse. no takers on any freeze dried meat (I sliced it up and put it in the milk/egg mix), they did drink a lot of the milk egg stuff. Most of the soupies and meat was gone so that seems to be the consistant thing. I had two pieces of chicken wing, sliced with meat hanging off, dipped in the milk/egg mix in another bowl-no takers.........what a bunch of hold outs. They were left with just that for 9 hours!!!! They came out to play, everyone was energetic and they got snack time. I think maybe they will just get kibble/snack for playtime and I will just continue to leave meat/soupies while they are in the cage for now. I put a fresh bowl in when I put them back up, a few came to eat. I did see Miss Sully take one chicken chunk in the den/box. They still have a significant amount of soupies and chicken chunks for the afternoon. If the house is kept cool, how long is safe to leave it out. Could I leave that bowl of soupies/chicken chunks for 20 hours, as in, if they dont eat it this afternoon, leave the same bowl overnight? I did weigh all of them today to get a current weight and they are ranging from Max at 2.2 to Bubba at 2.15 so I dont think anyone is severly underweight. I will continue to weigh as I withhold kibble to make sure noone starts dropping an enormous amout of weight. There is always a lot of fresh water available and they all drink plenty. Whats your take on all this. Man, these guys are dug in to keep the kibble!!!!!!! Do you think they will ever really eat chicken wings and such?

[ferretpalooza]

OK, Im jealous. Erin got Pilot to eat a drumstick. Should I maybe start back with the softened kibble method or just stay with this???

[Heather]

Oh they will eat it, but the kibble is a hard thing to give up. It's rather like asking you to give up your favourite cookie or donut. You have to remember too, you're trying to switch 7 fuzzbutts of varying ages. That's never easy. You're really doing awesome Now, you have ground meat in the egg, cream mix right? Start adding less liquid or more meat (whichever way you find easier). Start thickening it up, not too fast. We're going to go slow with these guys. They obviously, go on strike everytime you rush them Don't go switching back and forth. Erin's little one has decided that he's now going to eat raw. Once they decide they go and you can't fill them, until they go you can't rush it and switching back and forth only confuses the issue. Now they're eating your soupy mix and the cream and egg mix. Is everyone eating this? If so lets ditch the kibble, period. No kibble treats, no holdouts. My little seniors wouldn't eat the raw until I ditched the kibbles. I hand fed them 3 meals a day. Made sure they ate, fed them until I was sure they were filled. With Babushka I scruffed, then suddenly it was like a little light bulb went on. I always offered her the option of eating it willingly off the spoon or scruff. Suddenly, she started eating the food consistently, at first it was from the spoon. Then I lowered the spoon into the mix, then it was just the mix. Each time I added less and less of the egg mixture. I think too, it has to do with the snuggle time that they like. Now there's no turning back, she's decided she likes quail (it's worth fighting for), chicken she will eat if there's nothing else and she loves turkey.
How to tell if the stuff is still usable is the smell. It will smell off, then they won't eat it. They're actually not bad at telling when something will make them sick....except maybe little rubber toys Please remember you can't look at others fuzzies in the switching dept. I've had ferrets who should have switched like a dream, not go and were real pains and I've had others who you wouldn't think would consider raw and they go. There is no rhyme or reason to what makes a fuzzy suddenly decide to switch, I do know that once this part is over it's a breeze. The hardest part is sitting on the method that you've chosen and give it time to work and convince your guys that it's right.
Keep your chin up, your guys are in process and they're a lot farther along than you think
Talk at you a little later. Actually, we may be switching together as I'm possibly doing a rescue and he will have to be switched as I teach him not to bite the hand that feeds him
ciao

[ferretpalooza]

They didnt touch the leftover soup and chicken all day. Wow, these guys are amazing how they are handling going with out food. They were all alert and ready to play when they came out. I made up the egg/cream/ground beef mixture and sat on the floor. Everyone had to be scruffed but then started eating on their own from the spoon except Buster......whew, he is stubborn. I did, however, get a fair amount of ground beef in him and then everyone got treats. I put the leftover cream mix in a food bowl and the leftover soupies mix in another one. I have been putting them in large plates outside of the cage. Maybe if they see it in the food bowl it may clue them in a little. So Ill just stick with soupies in the am with chicken and egg at night with ground beef and the leftovers will go in the cage in between for now.