Seventh heaven goes raw

[Heather]

Ok...you've got 2 takers, one thinking about it and the rest have dug their little feet in and said no way. They're not eating the moistened kibble at all? Then stop. We're not getting anywhere with it. Let's work with the soupies. What if you put less meat chunks in it? Enough to entice the ones who are already eating it but not enough to deter the little ones who like their soupies but not the chunks. How big are the chunks? Chuckie's reaction is very much fertish. I have more than a couple who hide under or in something to eat. Even the tiniest piece of ground raw is dragged off and eaten in privacy.
Do you have any feeder boxes? Ahh, I looked back and see that you do. Sometimes even the best designed feeder box is passed up for something the ferret considers safer, in Chuckies case, under the chair. Are you keeping a really close eye on Chuckie or are you leaving him to his own design and checking up on him after he leaves off the chunked meat?
Do you have a food processor? Can you put a bit of raw and grind it up fine. Don't waste all the soupie but add a little of the ground raw to a little of the soupie mix. Mix it up, just like you would have the soupy mix originally. So there are no real chunks but the some of the meat in it is actually raw, or put your soupy mix in the food processor along with a bit of raw meat. See if they will eat it like that. Again, rather than waste a whole lot, just make up a little bit and see if you can get them to eat that. If they will then we can slowly add more and more raw to the soupie thickening it up with raw meat. Another thing you can do is if your raw soupy mix is take a spoon and snuggle some of your little hold-outs and offer a bit on the spoon. See if they will eat it that way. I have actually snuggled a fuzzy and dipped my finger into the soupy mix and put some on their noses to get them to lick it off. Sometimes it's not well received and there is much gagging and sputtering, but I persist and usually they will start licking it off my finger and then the spoon.
I know that this trial and error stuff can be really frustrating, but it really is worth it in the long run. Really it is When you look at all your little furbabies with their beautiful thick, shiny coats and they're happily munching. Let me know how your soupie mix is eaten tonight. Good luck, and I'll talk at you in the morning.
ciao

[ferretpalooza]

I saved some of the broth the other day so i will put some in the blender with some raw and I can add it to the soupies. I watch them eat their soupies to see who is doing what and count the chunks Chuckie drags off and then go count what is left under the chair when he is done so I know he is eating some of it. Ill add a little raw soupie to the regular tomorrow and let you know how it goes. I have a box in the cage room, but they are not free roam in there. Ill make sure to put a box next to the bowl in the kitchen where I feed them and see if I have any takers there. I made a huge batch of sliced beef, chicken, beef/chicken livers and have them freeze drying. How long does it take to freeze dry???

[Heather]

Freeze drying hmmm...I just started that myself . I cut my heart meat a little thick...and it's just coming up now. I was going to thaw some of the liver to see how it had worked. It should be going whitish...rather like what you would see for freezer burn.
Putting the feeder box within 2 or 3 ft of the food dish seems to work the best. I have a rotating box (use emptied boxes of canned pop-- the 12 pck kind) they seem to love it.
I will check back with you later to see how the mix was recieved and wether Chuckie is actually eating out of his stash.
Good luck, talk at you later. We will find the method that suits your fuzzies...keep the chin up
ciao

[Forum Administrator]

Just wanted to pop in real quick and let ferretpalooza know Im proud of you for sticking with this even though its kind of frustrating at first You really seem to have a strong dedication to do "what's best" for your babies....even if its maddening! Keep up the great work and keep your chin up. Heather won't steer you wrong. She just put a 9 year old ferret onto raw....she is my hero lol! If anyone can switch a stubborn fert it's her Just stay calm, patient, collected. Keep her posted. Don't be afraid if progress is painfully slow, or if you dont seem to be seeing progress at all. The initial stages of the switch are the hardest BUT ferret's usually "pick up speed" during the final stages. I wish you the best of luck and as always I'll be here to check up on you.

Thank you Heather for taking her "under your wing" you are an awesome mentor and you are doing a great job!

[ferretpalooza]

Heather, Im going to give mine a break for a couple of days. I am getting really stinky messy stress poos right now. They had a change of rooms in the house and I got a new bottom level for the FN and have modified the cage but its a lot of changes they have been going through. They now have to get used to a new setup and new locations for litterboxes. Im going to let them get used to it, however, I will still ut the chicken chunks in the soupies. Ill try the raw soupies towards the end of the week when we are all back on schedule and they have had a couple of days in the 2nd round of new surroundings in the last week.

[Heather]

Ok...I certainly understand where you're coming from. You are making progress, but I can see where this might be a lot of changes for your furbabies. I usually make use of the changes but rescue is a whole different can of worms, your babies may be showing that they're angry with you too. You've changed their foods, changed their room and their home. I have a suggestion, do you have any rescue remedy? You can buy it just about anywhere now, health food store, bulk food store...I can even get it at my local grocery store. It's fantastic stuff, for changes as well as a treatment for injuries, or scares. I keep it on hand for my rescues when they first come in. I usually put it in their water for the first week or so when they come in. It will help the accept the changes with a little less stress.
I will continue to look for your messages and hope to hear from you soon. Don't give up
ciao

[ferretpalooza]

After a day in the new setup, they are fine.....much happier with more room and an out of cage pen area. I did leave a bowl with some ground meat balls rolled in kibble crumbs and some cut up gizzards rolled in kibble crumbs. Three of the four ground meat balls are gone. I assume someone ate them because I dont see them anywhere. Chuckie carried one piece of chicken from the soup bowl and noone else was interested. I put a bowl under the cage, next to the den of rolled ground meat balls, I took the chicken chunks from the soup and rolled them in crumbs and put in the bowl, and for added entertainment, I put a piece of the frozen beef liver and frozen sliced beef. So we'll see if they repeat eating in their room. I assume if someone keeps eating meat in there, it will become obvious.

[Heather]

Ok, it's great to see you're still here I'm glad that you're little babies are adjusting to their new setup. Ok...let's get these little furbums eating raw Let's go on this . Do you have anyone, other than Chucky who's eating the soup? Is he actually eating the soup or only the chicken out of the soup? Do you happen to know who's eating what? This would help so that we can figure out how to proceed. I'm thinking, to move forward with the breaded meats. I have had more success with this method. That being said, if you have a furbaby or two who are eating the soup then we may have to go with it for them. It's easier to go with one method but you have to be a bit accomodating for your furbabies. Let me know how things are going. I will check in with you in the morning.
ciao

[ferretpalooza]

OK, noone ate any raw left in the cage yesterday. Chuckie, Max and Buster are feeling a little bony but they are enjoying the new cage setup so that just may have been not eating for stress the past couple of days. I made soupie this morning and put pumpkin in it in case we had any cleanout issues necessary, my babies LOVE pumpkin. I didnt add as many of the shredded cubes, they dont like the shredded meat. Boudreaux is eating about three chunks of chicken out of his bowl. He eats soup separate just cause he is such a baby. None of the rest were eating any chicken so I picked each on up and scruffed them and made them chew on a piece of chicken with their back teeth. Sully carried a couple of pieces off and stashed them in my slipper. Everyone else spit them out except Buster who locked his jaws up and you couldnt pry his teeth apart. He was having none of this. I think Bubba did eat one piece and came back sniffing around but spit the second piece out. Im going to leave dry kibble in there a couple of days and if you want me to try something with the kibble then, let me know. They have an snack tray in the pen today with dusted ground meat bites, dusted chicken bites, little slivers of the freeze dried beef and liver and the raw chicken coated with soup they left in the bowl this morning. The tray is drizzled with ferretone. They were pacing around the tray and Bubba was trying to lick the ferretone around all the snacks. We'll see if anyone bites on that this afternoon........Have a great day!!!

[Heather]

Let's see if you have any takers on this by tonight. If not, maybe we should try this....

Ok...do any of your guys like raw egg? I'm thinking that maybe we might try what I did to get my old girls to switch. It's little time consuming as you're hand feeding to begin with but you're starting to do that anyway. You're already starting to note some weight loss in your guys and that's not good.
Babushka has been fed various kibbles all her life. She had no interest in eating any type of switch off. At her age (9yrs) she would sooner go to sleep than change from kibble. My switching recipe is easy. You need: ground chicken, an egg and that's it to start. You take egg, and scramble, add ground chicken to the point that you have a soup. Thick enough to go on a spoon but not so thick that it doesn't pour. Take fuzzbutt, depending on how willing said fuzzbutt is. With Babushka, I stuck her in a feeding sack (easier on your arm against the claws) and offered the mixture on a spoon. To start with...it was like feeding a snake that head was everywhere. I resorted to scruffing, and gently pouring the liquid into her. Like you would a sick ferret (I never syringe). I strongly suggest that you wear a towel across your lap, you will wear some of this. At the beginning, it was a bit of a battle. Sometime during the first week, she stopped fighting (she would lock her jaws, but if you come at it from the side of their mouth, they will open up) but still wouldn't eat without being scruffed. Sometime during the second week, she started eating from the spoon. Then it was a matter of time when she finally decided that she could actually eat this stuff on her own. Each ferret has it's own timetable. With seven it won't be easy but still doeable as some are going to go there right away. While I was doing the switch the first week, I let the girls have their kibble. Then they were only allowed to have it at night, and during the day they had to try and eat the raw. After that I gave the kibbles to one of my foster people to feed to her ferrets.
Let's see what happens today. Hang in there. I know it's frustrating. I sat there more than a few times with Babushka and wondered if it really was worth doing this to an old ferret. It was She's twice as active, her teeth are cleaning up and her coat is coming in nicely. Good luck, I hope that all that raw meat is gone when you get home and you don't even have to try my methods
ciao

[ferretpalooza]

OK, no go yet but they have all probably been sleeping since morning play time. They may wake up later this afternoon and try something. Im a little confused about the egg/meat thing. You said to scramble and add enough meat to make soupie and pour liquid in. If I scramble the egg, there will be no liquid. What am I missing here? I dont mind if it takes time and effort if it is going to benefit them in the long run. Me and the ferrets just hang out together at night anyway. I really think the weight loss is more the change of rooms and when they get out at night, I have been working in other rooms and not playing with them. They have had kibble available the whole time. They are perking up now that they are benefitting from the new set up. Oh, by the way, mine have never eaten an egg so that will be new too

[Forum Administrator]

Many ferrets like egg even if they've never had it Its the same with heavy whipping cream (not WHIPPED cream, whipING cream). You can use it as a bribe and it works wonders. De, my 8 year old LOVES cream. She had never had it before but the first time I gave her a few licks she went bonkers. Many ferrets are the same way about egg. Both egg and cream can be used as bribes.

Good luck, hang in there! Heather wont steer you wrong!

[ferretpalooza]

I took their food out around 4 and they didnt get out tonight till 9. Three of the ground meat balls were gone. I made a soup with raw egg, ground beef bits and whipped cream (all I had). I sat down with them all. This definitely required scruffing. I forced the first few pieces in thier mouths. Max and Killa ate quite a bit and started eating it off my fingers. Boudreaux, Buster and Bubba did well but I had to keep them scruffed. Chuckie and Sully fought the entire time but they got some in their mouth. So now I am feeding chicken soupie in the am and making them all at least bite on a piece of chicken and egg soup at night and making them eat a few pieces of meat. Any other suggestions right now?

[Heather]

Ok, now comes the wait and see. I know this part is difficult but it's all part of the feeding end of it. I would continue to feed the little meatballs. Do you have any idea as to who's eating these?
Give Max and Killa a big hug, looks like they're going to be your first takers. Boudreaux, Buster and Bubba will probably continue to require a little persuation, but should probably be eating the egg mix before very long without the scruff. Chuckie and Sully, may require a little more persuation unless they've already been eating the meatballs....is that a possibility, that maybe they were already full? Who of your business, is the most likely to eat them?
You're doing really well, give yourself a pat on the back . Your guys haven't been very cooperative in trying to work with you, but they're ferrets We'll see if we get more of them to jump in and eat as they get farther from kibbles and more into the realm of raw meats.
Wishing you luck, you're doing great. The hardest part about getting ferrets to switch is convincing them that the food you want them to eat will not poison them I will talk at you tomorrow.
ciao

[ferretpalooza]

I found three of the ground meat balls in the stash box, so they are not eating them like I thought. I think they liked the little pieces in the soup more. I put them back in the cage. Buster ran straight to the kibble. I put the leftover egg soup in the pen, the house is 69 degrees, it ought to be ok overnight, eh? Anyway, Bubba and Killa ran to the bowl. bubba ate some more as long as it was off my finger. Killa just licked a little and went away. Sully came by and licked a little off my finger. My Stinkweasels order came in today and I broke a freeze dried chicken cake up (we have never had this.) Well Killa and Sully drag a fourth off under the cages and started eating that. So we are getting a little different tastes started. I will force bites of chicken at soupie time again in the morning and keep you posted