Bindiferret89's Switching Thread

[bindiferret89]

We had a really successful day yesterday. The older girls ate all their soup 2 meals in a row. They must be starting to realize that this is much tastier than that yucky kibble stuff. The syringe feeding must have gotten Ginny's interest because this morning she jumped right up with Lucinda (Moki was too lazy to get out of her hammock right away) and went for the soup.

According to my feeding log, this is Sully and Nuka's 6th day without kibble!

I like the idea of offering slightly more than I think they'll eat and leaving it in there while I'm at work or school (I'm rarely gone for more than 8 hours, so this works well). Sully and Nuka, being so young, are definitely eating a ton, so I'm offering them 4-5 ounces at a time right now and they do eat it all between morning and evening meals, so I will continue to do that. The twice daily soups seem to satisfy the others.

Just fed breakfast and they're really enjoying themselves!

[spiritualtramp]

Oh good Ginny came around! I'm so happy they're all doing so well.

Keep the girls on the soups for a day or so, to make sure Ginny doesn't fall back behind. But when you feel confident start to thicken it with ground.

Sully and Nuka, what size chunks are they eating? Have you offered any bone?

[bindiferret89]

I give them various size chunks, including some fairly large ones, and they're eating all of them. No bone yet. Do you think they're ready? I have chicken wingettes, but I'm not sure if the bones will be too daunting for a first try.

[spiritualtramp]

Do you have the means to cut the bones into pieces? I'd try that at first - they may take right to it, they may not. But you don't know unless you try My guess is they'll have a little reservations at first but will try it anyway.

[bindiferret89]

How exactly do you cut the bones? I doubt I have anything that will.

[spiritualtramp]

I use a big knife, not even a cleaver but bones smaller than chicken bones are very easy to break. Some people use poultry shears, too.

[bindiferret89]

Hey Erinn,

Everyone is still doing really well. I offered Sully & Nuka two whole chicken wingettes (the smallest ones I could find in the package) tonight, so we'll see if they're interested. If not, I will try to find a knife big enough to cut them into smaller pieces, bone and all. The other girls are still on soups.

Sully and Nuka had a complete meal of beef for the first time last night and it gave them very loose, light-colored stools. I'm not sure if this is caused a sensitivity one of them might have to beef or if beef just creates a different colored stool. What do you think? If you think it might be a sensitivity to beef, I think I'll cut out beef entirely, as you said it doesn't have the same nutritional value as other meats anyway. Even if I cut beef out, I still have access to chicken, turkey, lamb, Cornish game hen, and pork as common meats and I can do Hare Today orders later for rabbit and other hard-to-find things.

Tomorrow is shopping day, as we're running low and definitely lacking variety in meats right now. I plan to pick up more turkey and pork and I want to try ground lamb. Wegman's is surprisingly reasonable, especially when their meats are on sale. I just wish their CGH's weren't so expensive because I couldn't find the tiny ones at Walmart.

I also need to pick up more livers because my mom took them out of the freezer to organize some things and forgot to put them back. Wegman's also carries beef kidney. Would that be an appropriate organ meat if I cut it into small portions?

Side note: I just looked over and Sully is tearing at one of the wingettes. Must make him feel all manly to be tackling such a large piece of meat.

Quick Update: Within 5 minutes, Sully was gnawing on the bone. He ate half the wingette, bone and all, and then stashed the rest of it, hehe. That's my boy! It's a little nerve-wracking the first time you hear bone crunching under their little teeth, haha. I told my mom what he was doing and she got all worried, so I had to explain to her that bone only splinters when you cook it and that ferrets were built to eat little bones.

[spiritualtramp]

GO SULLY!!! What a god buy! Did Nuka try some of the wingettes? Her jaws might not be as strong as Sully's as he's a male and they generally can tackle bones at a faster pace. So she may require cutting the bones, or special encouragement.

If it's the first time they've had beef, of course their stools are going to be a bit off. Their tummies haven't adjusted. Ranger vomits every time he eats it, that's a true sensitivity. I recommend offering the beef a few more times and judging from their continued output. Again, if you decide to cut it out, no big loss there, but if they like it and their poops get better it's a good gateway to stronger-flavored meats like lamb and buffalo.

Kidney is a good thing to have on hand, you can either feed half-kidney/half-liver on organ day, or alternate weekly (or whenever you pick up kidney instead of liver, and vice versa.) My kids love lamb kidneys which are about the same size as a chicken liver, so those make nice substitutions. Beef kidney, I've never tried, because of Ranger. But go ahead and either try it whole or mix/puree it into a soupy. Kidneys have similar vitamin & fat content as livers and produce similar loose, dark stools.

I'm surprised your Wal Mart didn't have any CGHs! I buy mine there, they've got two-packs for just under four bucks which is a good deal, that's about four or five meals for my five kids right there. In my store they have them in the standing freezers with the whole turkeys and whole chickens. I don't know if all stores are set up similarly but I imagine they are, as part of a corporate thing!

Good luck today and keep me posted on the beef thing.

[bindiferret89]

I don't think Nuka ate any bone, but I can't be sure. She did enjoy ripping the meat off of it and trying to steal them from the stashing spot when Sully wasn't looking. He kept going back to make sure they were still there, haha.

Sully didn't eat the entire bones, just the very ends. How do I get him to eat the whole bone?

I will try beef with them again. I also bought some lamb to try today. Still no luck getting the older girls to eat ground meat, not even watered down ground chicken.

Can you please double check this menu I came up with based on meats that are available at my grocery store. I'm definitely going to try Hare Today, I just don't want to put in a huge order until everyone is at least eating ground meat. The only thing I'd have to order are the turkey/chicken necks because my grocery store didn't have them afterall, even when I asked at the counter.

Mon.
AM: chicken wings
PM: 1/2 CGH

Tues.
AM: lamb
PM: turkey necks

Wed.
AM: chicken backs
PM: beef

Thurs.
AM: Pork
PM: Whole prey

Fri.
AM: 1/2 CGH
PM: Chicken necks

Sat.
AM: chicken thighs (Are the bones in these too big for them?)
PM: Turkey

Sun.
AM: kidney/liver
PM: soup

I feel like I might be overloading them with chicken on this menu.

[spiritualtramp]

Good morning!

It takes time to work up their jaws muscles to be able to eat full sized bones - but they'll get there. Keep offering wingtips to get both Sully and Nuka working their jaws up. Thigh bones are edible too, though large they tend to gnaw the ends off and get as much marrow from them as they can. The middles of the bones often don't get eaten but if they are hungry enough, those too will be eaten. So it's not a matter of the bones being too big for the ferrets, it's a matter of the ferrets not being strong enough quite yet.

For the older girls, I know you're watering down the ground. Are they still getting kibbles? How long are you giving between kibble meals and ground meals? They might need a little more hunger motivation. Also, have you tried hand-feeding little bits of ground to them? That might help get them started; sometimes all it takes is an extra nudge from their momma, especially if they are really bonded to you and trust you. And if all else fails, bust out the blender. Blending the ground raw with water will make it a more uniform texture throughout, so it's not water and ground so much as a soup.

That menu looks fine! Chicken isn't bad to have that often, and you do have seven different meat sources throughout the week. So that's just fine. Like you said, finding bone-in meats the right size for them limits you to chicken and other poultry (do you have access to duck? Goose? Expensive but it can add some variety if you're overly concerned.)

So far so good. Let me know how Sully and Nuka do with their bones today.

[bindiferret89]

Sully LOVES the bones and he can be very protective of his precious chicken wings. Nuka has to sneak them when he's sleeping, haha. I make sure to watch so she gets some, though I still haven't seen her try the bones. If she doesn't within a day or two, I will try cutting them into smaller pieces for them. I offered them another wing tonight (they had several last night) along with their first chicken hearts and gizzards, which were an instant favorite.

Moki and the others have been on soups only (no kibble at all) since the night of July 28th, which is why I worry when they skip meals (when I water down ground). I made a big batch of chicken soup for them yesterday, so they're set for a few days. The final bag of chicken soup I mixed up also has ground turkey blended in, so we'll see how that flavor goes over. They don't seem to mind the turkey flavor, just the texture of the ground. I will attempt to hand feed them some ground. I will also try blending just ground and water to make them different flavored soups so they get some meat variety, if they're not quite up to the texture variety yet. Nonetheless, I hadn't realized until I went back through my feeding log that they'd gone so long without kibble, so kudos to them! I actually had to give them three chicken soup meals today because they were eating it so fast, and when I fell asleep and fed them an hour late tonight, they were nosing at their dish like "Where is it?!"

Thanks for the feedback on my menu too! Unfortunately I haven't seen goose or duck at our grocery stores, although sometimes they get more variety when hunting season starts, so we'll see.

Thanks Erinn and I'll keep you posted!

[spiritualtramp]

Sounds like a plan, Amber! The girls will take to it, sometimes it just takes a little while. At least they, too, are kibble free as of right now!

I don't know if there are many butchers in your area, but we seem to have an overabundance of specialty meat shops in my area (is this some weird new trend? Harking back to the days before supermarkets?) But often the specialty meat shops have game meats as well as more expensive/exotic things. So if you want duck, pheasant, quail, venison etc it's worth it to stop in - though they are pricey usually. But you can also chat with the butcher and often strike up a deal where you can purchase scraps and useless cuts cheaply. So, if you're still worried about the chicken intake that's another thing to search out.

Hearts and gizzards are a crazy hiss and scream fest at my house. All the kids love them and are extremely competitive and protective of their share. It's adorable - Morgan can smell it when I take it out of the fridge and I can catch him dooking and hissing before I've even brought their meal into their room. Amazing creatures, ferrets are.

And, how have you been? Is your throat feeling better? Did you end up leaving Petco?

[bindiferret89]

The closest butcher is 20-30 minutes away. I was going to ask you though...my dad hunts during hunting season and if he gets a deer this year, he's offered to save some of the meat, and the organs he throws away, to freeze for my ferrets. He even said he'd portion it for me! I know they can eat venison, but are deer organs (heart--technically muscle meat, of course--liver, kidneys) safe for ferrets too? How long would I have to freeze everything to ensure that there are no parasites in it?

I'm feeling a lot better, though still tired. I feel like all I do is sleep. I'm probably going back to Petco for a little while until I find something else, but my manager was off today so I haven't talked to him yet.

[spiritualtramp]

You can of course feed venison and venison organs - to kill off parasites it's recommended you freeze it for three weeks at a temp of about 17 degrees. So you'd need a deep freezer, for sure.

When I get venison or other hunted meats from friends, I bring them to my parents' who have a deep freezer and keep it there for about a month. Then I bring it home to feed to the kids. It can be tricky to do but then again, having a deep freezer around might be a good idea in the long run anyway! Or, your dad probably keeps one if he hunts, right?

Sometimes it takes the body a long time to recover fully from something like that. And as we get older, we heal much slower. So being tired is understandable. I hope you get back on track soon, you must be so ready to just move along.

[bindiferret89]

Sounds good, Erinn. I'm sure someone I know has a deep freezer, though I'm not sure if it's my dad. He might have a friend who does though, like one of his hunting buddies.

Sully is eating whole bones now! He'll leave little fragments around the cage, but for the most part, he eats it all! I still haven't seen Nuka chewing on any, but who knows wha tshe does when I leave food out and don't watch? I'm free the rest of the night, so I'm going to monitor them closely at dinnertime tonight.