Bindiferret89's Switching Thread

[bindiferret89]

1. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names, ages, genders, and do they have any health problems (this is VERY important)?

Moki is a 1 ? year old female. Ginny and Lucinda are also females and will be a year old in October. All three just came back with a clean bill of health from the vet.

2. What are your ferrets currently eating? Include their main diet, plus any treats or supplements (such as duk soup).

Kibble mix of: Totally Ferret, 8-in-1 Ultimate, a very small amount of Wellness Core, and was considering adding Drs. Foster & Smith Natural Diet
Treats: occasional Bandits treats or commercial Duk Soup, but mostly Ferretone and they love when they get their Ferretlax

3. What kind of diet do you want to switch to?

Right now, I?d like to supplement their kibble with whole prey and eventually switch to an entirely whole prey diet.

4. Why do you want to switch to this more natural diet?

I know it?s healthier for them and I want what is best for my girls. I am fascinated by animal nutrition in general and try to provide the most balanced diets possible for all my animals. I have snakes, so I have to buy whole prey feeders anyway, and I know that whole prey provides the correct ratio of bones, organs, and muscle meat.

5. Where/what/who got you interested in natural diets?

I first heard about it on the Ferret.com forums.

6. Please list the current weight for your ferret(s). Do they appear overweight? Underweight? How is there muscle tone?

Moki: 2.23lbs
Ginny: 1.89lbs
Lucinda: 2.25lbs
They are fairly muscular and do not appear over or underweight, although Lucinda becomes very bulky in the winter.

7. What is the condition of your ferret's teeth/gums? (can you get a picture?)

I don?t have any pictures, but the vet?s descriptor for their teeth a week and a half ago was ?beautiful.? I know Moki has some plaque buildup on her molars though.

8. Describe the texture/color of your ferrets coat.

Moki: Sable mitt
Ginny: Sable blaze who is roaning out quite a bit
Lucinda: Somewhere between sable and chocolate with no mask (vet wasn?t even sure what color to call her)
They all have soft, thick fur, and they only get baths every six months or so.

9. How often does your ferret go to the bathroom?

With three of them? I have no idea, honestly. I know it?s at least 3 times per day per ferret.

10. Does your ferret's feces and/or urine smell?

Yes! Even when I use wood pellets as litter (it helps with the odor somewhat) and scoop the litter box daily, it stinks.

11. Smell your ferret. How strong is their odor?

The ferrets themselves don?t smell too bad. They?re musky, but I sort of like the musky ferret smell. I?d say they have a mild odor.

12. On a scale of 1-10, 1 being completely lethargic and 10 being "through the roof!" what is your ferret's energy level?

Moki: 5-6
Lucinda: 6
Ginny: 9-10
I?ve seen a recent increase in energy level. Does that have something to do with the seasons changing?

13. How excited is your ferret about meal time (when fed kibble)?
Not excited at all.

14. Have you attempted to switch from kibble to a natural diet in the past? If so, what methods have you tried. Be specific.

I have been attempting to supplement with whole prey. No interest in eating anything really, but Moki and Ginny LOVE to kill live prey. They?ve killed pinkies, a rat pup, and a full grown mouse. Either Moki or Ginny ate the tail off the adult mouse when it was left in their cage with them. I think the fur freaked them out, so they ate the bald tail. Lucinda is a very picky eater, when it comes to kibble or anything else. When I give them whole prey, I take their kibble away 4-6 hours beforehand and I usually give them live prey, as it seems to peak their interest more than pre-killed.

15. What other information about your ferret(s) would you like to share?

I am going away on vacation for a week in September, and while I have friends willing to watch the ferrets, I?m worried I won?t be able to find someone to feed whole prey while I?m gone. If we?re doing part kibble, part whole prey, will the girls go back to whole prey if I let my friend feed them kibble for a week or would that mess up all my hard work that I spent switching them?

16. If you can, please post a clear photograph of EACH of your ferrets directly below:

My computer is not cooperating tonight, but I will get these posted as soon as my photobucket account starts behaving.

17.

a.) Do you understand that by starting this thread you commit to posting updates on the progress of your ferret(s) diet switch atleast every other day?** Yes.

b.) Do you understand that if you will be away from your computer for an extended period of time you will need to exchange phone numbers (or email addresses if you don't feel comfortable exchanging numbers)via private message with your assigned mentor, so that we can monitor your progress and ensure your ferret's saftey during the switch? Yes.

c.) Do you understand that any threads that have not been updated in for more then a week (with no explaination as to why you are absent) will result in the deletion of the thread?*** Yes.

[Heather]

Hi and welcome to the mentoring program
In the next little while I will try and get you a mentor and get you and your little ones started on adjusting to a new healthier diet. For the time being, please feel free to post any of your dietary questions here and myself or any of the mentors prowling through will answer them. Please feel free to prowl this site, read the various threads, check out what other people have done in switching their furkids and see if anything might appeal to you. So for now, I wish you good luck and we will be talking
ciao

[bindiferret89]

Thank you Heather!

[spiritualtramp]

Hi Bindiferret, my name is Erinn and I wanted to pop in and say welcome to the board and hello to you and your three wee ones. Seeing as how they are all pretty young, switching their diets and adding new foods ought to be fairly easy, and I hope that you can learn a lot here. There's certainly a wealth of very smart, very helpful people here.

Until you get a mentor officially, please ask any questions and we'll help you out!

[bindiferret89]

**UPDATE!!!!**

The math struck today and there are two new weasels in the family! Oh the things you can get your mom to agree to when you've had your tonsils out and are in pain, lol.

Their names are Sullivan (5 month old dark sable male) and Rune or Nuka--I can't decide on a name yet--(3 month old blaze female).

I will give the full info on them as soon as I know them a little bit better and I will also get pictures of everyone up here. It's just hard to do a lot at the moment because I'm VERY loopy from my pain meds. Thanks for your patience!

[bindiferret89]

Info on my new additions:

Sullivan is a 5 month old dark sable male with a moderate energy level (I'd rate it at 6). His fur is kind of oily and at the moment he keeps peeing on himself, so I'm trying to find a solution to that. He's going to need a bath. Nuka is a 3 month old blaze female with a high energy level (I'd rate it at 9). Weights are unknown for both, but Nuka is smaller than my other girls and Sullivan is really muscular and weighs as much if not more than Lucinda. The Marshall's food the pet store had them on really leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to the texture of their fur. It's very coarse and oily. Yuck.

I'd like to change them over to the same diet as my other ferrets--kibble supplemented w/ whole prey and then all whole prey at some point.

Thanks!

[bindiferret89]

Photo time!

Moki:


Sullivan:


Nuka:


Ginny:


Lucinda:

[spiritualtramp]

Wow! Surprises abound! Congrats on the new additions. All your babies are really cute, I especially love Lucinda. What a face!

Heather and I chatted and decided that I'd be your mentor for the switch! So, looks like another addition tonight

A bit about myself and my kids:

My name is Erinn, I'm 24, and heading into my first semester of pre-veterinary. I live in a small town in NH with my five woozels: Pilot, Ranger, Diesel-Electric, Tank and NB's Captain Morgan. I have two at the bridge, Swift Scout Seven and Sailor.

Obviously interested in animals, specifically mustelids after an all-too-close encounter with a fisher as a child, I quickly decided that a natural diet was appropriate after losing Scout mere months after rescuing him to kidney stones. I dove headfirst into the idea, but only Diesel and Sailor followed! Eventually, I got Pilot, Ranger, and Tank switched over, too - with the help of HF and TSS. (Morgan is a breeder boy that I brought home in March after falling in love with him at last year's Winter Nationals. He was raised on a diet of kibble with supplementary raw and whole prey, so switching him was a non-issue. He did get my kids interested in whole prey, though, so now the group is fed a raw prey model diet with occasional whole prey, and occasional freeze-dried, which is especially helpful when traveling and show-going!)

After graduating the program, I knew I wanted to help out with other newbies as much as possible and decided to come on board as a mentor. So here I am! I'm glad to be of help and please ask my any questions that you have along the way.

So, right now, your two new kids are on Marshall's still, correct? Are you working to switch them over to your current kibble mix slowly? They'll likely take it pretty easily, and getting them on raw foods now is going to be extremely easy as they are so young, so it'd be a great idea to get some mice at the ready.

I know you said you intend to feed kibble with supplemental whole prey and would like to know your stance on that. Are you firmly against trying other forms of natural diets, or are you willing to give them other foods too? What about freeze-dried foods, if preparation/storage etc are issues with raw? Is the kibble allure solely for convenience - especially when, like you said, you go out of town and need someone to take care of them for you?

I am going to send you a PM with my email/cell phone info should you need them, this way you can keep in contact with me outside of the forum here as well.

Again, congrats on the new kids and let's get this thing started!

[bindiferret89]

Hi Erinn! So glad to have someone so close to my age and with such great experience with ferrets as my mentor!

Let me answer your questions first...


So, right now, your two new kids are on Marshall's still, correct? Are you working to switch them over to your current kibble mix slowly? They'll likely take it pretty easily, and getting them on raw foods now is going to be extremely easy as they are so young, so it'd be a great idea to get some mice at the ready.

Yes, they are both still on Marshall's and I am switching them to my current kibble mix. Nuka is still young enough that she was used to eating moistened Marshall's at Petco, so she has that, but I've also offered a dry mix of Marshall's + my usual kibble brands. I have not tried mice with either of them since they just came home today, but I am definitely excited that they are young enough to (hopefully!) take to whole prey easily.

I know you said you intend to feed kibble with supplemental whole prey and would like to know your stance on that. Are you firmly against trying other forms of natural diets, or are you willing to give them other foods too? What about freeze-dried foods, if preparation/storage etc are issues with raw? Is the kibble allure solely for convenience - especially when, like you said, you go out of town and need someone to take care of them for you?

I hope I didn't sound like a snob! *blush* I'm for all forms of natural diets and can also understand why some people can only feed kibble. I would be willing to try raw or whole prey, but the allure of whole prey (for me) is that it automatically balances bones/muscles/organ meats. I'm too afraid of screwing up raw if I have to figure out those percentages myself. I also have snakes, so whole prey that goes uneaten never goes to waste and I can breed some, though not all, of my own whole prey animals. But if you think you can teach me to do raw AND whole prey I'm up for trying anything! What would a sample menu look like for a week of feeding raw and whole prey?

Yes, the kibble allure is a mix of convenience and cost-efficiency. I'm finishing up post-secondary school and between jobs right now and I keep convincing myself kibble is cheaper, although I figured out a whole prey-only diet for 1 year for my three older girls and figured I'd save $80 to $100 a year buying rodents in bulk and NOT feeding kibble, so the kibble lies I tell myself are hogwash, lol. I've read that feeding a mix of raw and whole prey is even less costly so maybe I should consider that route. I'm just really worried about messing up the raw ratios. I think that's the biggest factor holding me back. We have a whole extra freezer here where I could store meat (as long as my family doesn't mistakenly cook it!) and rodents.

Let me know what you think, if my fears are valid or not, and what you think my first steps should be. As I mentioned, Moki and Ginny are already killing live prey up to the size of an adult mouse and one of them ate the tail, so I think we're on the right track, just not sure where to go next!

[spiritualtramp]

Okay, great, understanding that definitely helps me to help you! Cost-wise, as I'm sure you're figuring out, kibble is not actually cheaper - so my suggestion would be to ditch the goal of kibble/whole prey and try for something else. Of course, I'm not trying to change your mind or your goals, I just think that with your circumstances, and desire to have the healthiest possible diet, there are better avenues to look down.

Raw is not as complicated or daunting as it appears - I can assure you. Heck, if I can manage to work full time, go to school full time, run my own forum as well as mentor here, and attend to my ferrent duties, well anyone can! The important thing to understand is balance, and while yes it does take some practice and guidance at first, it actually turns into second nature after a while. It sounds like you understand the necessity for balance of ratios and this is the first and vital step in feeding a proper natural diet. But we're getting ahead of ourselves here

Let's first start by getting all your babies on the same page. Once the new kids are settled in some, try some pinkies with them. They may need convincing - some salmon oil, crushed kibble, soup - whatever might get their attention. Drizzle or coat the pinkies with the tool of choice and see what they do. Sometimes, cutting open the mouse slightly helps to connect the dots, but honestly that hasn't worked for any of my kids. Usually they start out by trying a tail or a foot - the crunchy bits - and working their way up as they get braver. Once the newbies are on the same page as the others, it will be much less confusing to switch everyone from the same launching point.

How often are you offering prey items now? Live/pre-killed or both?

[bindiferret89]

Okay, I think I need to revise my goals here...

I want the healthiest for my babies, so let's just go all out and kick the kibble. I'd like to try a mix of raw and whole prey, which seems like it will be least costly and healthiest for my furkids. I just think I'm going to need A LOT more guidance on this route, which I would like to thank you ahead of time for!

Right now we've tried live and prekilled (live more often since it gets their attention) prey items (mice or baby rats) arbitrarily, usually a few times a week, but not on any consistant schedule.

Maybe tomorrow I could try pinkies with all the furkids. I also just checked the meat section of the grocery store fliers and chicken wings and legs are on sale, so maybe I'll pick some of those up too?

[Heather]

Whhooooo hoooo Just popped in Congratulations on your new furbabies (I think I popped in on another thread a few minutes ago) your furbabies are gorgeous and hey great stuff in the revision of your goals....that's so great that you're going to feed your furbabies nuturally. Great stuff.
ciao

[bindiferret89]

Thanks for your congrats and support, Heather, and for assigning me a cool mentor so quickly! I do appreciate the help I'm getting from everyone here!

[bindiferret89]

I'm probably getting ahead of myself, but I've looked at the rules of thumb for feeding raw diets and I want to make sure I have them right and ask a few questions:

*4 days a week feed meat w/ bone in it
*2 days a week feed boneless muscle meat
*1 day a week feed a chicken liver to each ferret

Is that correct?

Now questions:

*How does whole prey fit into that since it encompasses every part of the animal? Can I follow the raw guidelines for AM feedings (for example) and feed whole prey for PM feedings or will that throw off the balance?
*Is it too soon for me to start working on a menu? (I like being organized and stuff like this is actually FUN for me, so I can't help but get ahead of myself here...)
*Would it be beneficial to keep a feeding log, at least until they're completely switched, of what they eat each day? (ex: kibble, soup, whole prey, raw meat, etc. w/ specific types and amounts)

Thanks!

[bindiferret89]

Bleh, my throat is sore, which woke me up, and I can't get back to sleep, so I'm sitting here mapping out potential menus on scrap paper, haha.

Just a fun fact: I estimated (based on the cost breakdown posted on the boards here, rodent pro prices, ferret.com/ferretstore.com prices, and what my kids eat in kibble now) what it costs per month for raw/whole prey vs. kibble and it will only cost me about $2.00 more to feed raw/whole prey! That's exciting for me because it means cost won't be such an issue, and with five ferrets now, it's going to be A LOT less expensive than doing just whole prey. Thanks for inspiring me to try raw as well Erinn! I think you saved my wallet!

I'm also not 100% sure how much raw my furkids will eat yet since they haven't really tried it yet, so the cost may be less, and I can save money by breeding some of my own rodents for the whole prey portion of their diet.

Anyway, I'm going to pick up some pinkies today to try your idea, Erinn, and I'll let you know how that goes. Let me know when you want me to post my "menu" that I came up with for you to critique. I'm not sure if I did it correctly, so I may need some help.