Saphire2815's Switching Thread

[saphire2815]

Thankfully the AC was just frozen over. I was running it to much and it never had a chance to defrost ever! LOL so we are already back in the cool. I finally realized if I just turn the fan on it evaporates the ice real fast, all those hours of suffering and I could have fixed it in an hour Oh well. I set it so the fan runs all the time, even when it's not cooling, it will evaporate the ice and hopefully I won't run into this situation again anytime soon.

Well the wing piece in the cage last night, and no one ate. Probably too hot, shoot I barely ate anything for dinner. So this morning I took the wing tip off of a wing and cut it into about 8 chuncks. Big enough to make them work at it, but small enough that maybe they would be willing to try. Bon Bon ate two pieces completly, and Baylee ran off with the rest of the pieces, and seemed to nibble at it, but no bone.

I tried the cutting the pieces up in strips and it seems to work. Briar still refuses to eat, I can get a few licks but it's forced, and I can't push him too hard, I've found when he stresses he gets these real watery runny stools. So I'm just going to take it easy with him. Other than him, I think everyone is really starting to like it alot. I know that the original amount I was putting out is now not enough, and I've been putting out more.

I guess now it's getting them to eat bigger pieces and some bone. But today after taking the bones out of all the thighs and legs I decided to make a broth for the soups. Next batch might get either resistance or super enthusiasm. ;D

[saphire2815]

I got derailed again. I'm so easily distracted sometimes
holisticferret.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=talking&thread=3417

I guess I'm just putting some soup with crunchy bits of wings with them tonight and see what happens in the morning, and hopefully some poor sick or injured animal won't derail the plans tomorrow night God I'm just a sap when it comes to animals! I so love ALL of them those.

[sherrylynne]

Something like that would have distracted me, too!
I wouldn't worry too much about bone just yet. They won't have built up the jaw strength for much more than the tip. They need to start exercising their muscles on chunks
I'm not saying don't give it to them if they'll eat it, just don't stress about it if they don't.
Ok, with their soupies, I'd start to thicken it a bit, with the chunks for those who like them still there, of course.
With the ones who actively take the strips, let them keep having it that way for now. That way, they can get used to chewing.\
I know this seems like you're going in many directions at once, but sooner or later, everyone will catch up.
How much kibble are they taking now? And do you have a group who can go without it yet? Even if they are actively eating just the soup, they'll get enough from that alone. And the ones eating the chunks- do you think they're eating about an ounce in a sitting?
What I'm aiming for here is having one group at least who can safely have the kibble removed permanently.

[saphire2815]

Ok, so if it's not one things it's another. On my way home last night I noticed hives crawling up my arms. So i took some benedryl when I got home. Made up some chunky soupy for the ferrets and made and ate my dinner then passed out (Benedryl does that to me) and was woken up by a ferret nibbling on my toe! So the food was gone, can't tell ya who ate what, I gathered everone put them in their cages and went back to sleep. Oh and the bird was gone this morning.

I still have to make the soup creamy because it seems to be the only way I can get butterscotch to eat it. As soon as he runs into a chunky bit he stops and leaves. So what I do is I cut up strips of meat and add soup on top of it. And then a spoon of just soup for Butterscotch. Biscuit is so funny, he will eat the raw from the plate, but everytime I grab butter and start spooning his food to him, Biscuit comes in and start eating from the spoon too! He likes it that way! LOL

I'll have to figure out the cage configuration, because I have to keep kibble with Butter, and I can't put Bacon and Biscuit in the same cage, Bacon has decided Biscuit is his boyfriend? IDK I've heard adrenal causes sexual agression, but Bacon is only this way with Biscuit, and Bacon is just turning a year this month. I'll figure it all out this weekend.

[sherrylynne]

You've definitely got your hands full! And yes, some ferrets(most ) are like little kids. When someone else is getting something, it's bound to be better than what they have! If you fill the others up on the raw, how much of the kibble do they touch, any idea? Once they're eating chunks, it may not be as big a deal, especially if you can cage Butter with the more avid raw feeders.
As for Bacon and Biscuit, it's possible it's just a dominance thing that's come up between them. It does with mine sometimes, too. The pecking order is constantly in flux, except for the alphas. And those ladies rule with an iron paw

[saphire2815]

Lets see, my good raw eaters are Bon Bon, Biscuit, Baylee, Thyme and I have been caging them with Butter. I have started leaving a little bit of raw in their cage overnight and during the day. I've also been making sure there is a 1/2 c kibble morning and evening. They do a pretty good job at eating all the raw overnight, but during the day, they tend to leave a few chunky bits, and I always find kibble left over in their cage on most days. So I would say on average this group eats about 3/4 cup of kibble a day. Out of this group I've seen Butter, Biscuit, Baylee and Thyme eating from the kibble bowl, I haven't seen Bon Bon eat kibble in a couple days.

Next Cage. Bacon, Bandit, Blaze, Briar and Barlee. Out of that group Bandit is starting to take to the raw, she actually came and started eating tonight without me prompting. Bacon, Blaze and Barlee I can get to eat but I have to prompt them. Briar of course I have to scruff every time just to taste, once I get him to taste he'll take a few licks, but no any true interest. With this group I tried leaving raw in the cage a few times, and they just let it sit, and go for the kibble. I have been giving them 1/2 C Morning and evening also, and just about every morning and evening they are out. So on average this group is getting about 1 cups of kibble a day.

I think this total consumption of kibble isn't bad for 10 ferrets, before I started this, it was about 4 cups of kibble a day and that was with 8! So it's been reduced by more than half! And we've added 2 ferrets! LOL

I'm thinking Bandit could be motivated more by hunger and maybe switching her with Butter, but Butter and Bon Bon came a bonded pair, I'm not sure if breaking them apart is good. So maybe switching Barlee and Bandit with Bon Bon and Butter, but last time I put Bon Bon in that cage, she stopped eating raw. But then I had separated her from Butter putting her in that cage.

Oy! Maybe just cutting back on the good eaters kibble? And not change the cage set up? I've also put out the vibes for another cage. We'll see, I'm sure everything will work out.

[sherrylynne]

Ya did have to name them all with "B's" didn't ya! Don't you know us old people confuse easily
Ok. For the "good raw eater's" cage. for now, just concentrate on getting them to try chunks just a wee bit larger. Maybe try 1/4c kibbles am and pm. How thick are you making the soup now? I know Butter only likes it pureed, but can you do it thicker? If you can slowly thicken it every two or three days until it's basically a heavy mush, you can start introducing him to some ground.
For the others, you can try leaving the kibble out overnight, and giving them their soupies in the morning, before they get and kibble. They are healthy, and it won't hurt them. Or the other way around, if that's more convenient(kibble out during the day, soup when you get home). A healthy ferret can easily handle up to 12 hours with no food. And a little hunger always adds the spice

[saphire2815]

Shoot I mess myself up with all the b names too! Imagine what the Duggers go through with 18 J names! I wonder if their oldest Son is going to keep the J tradition alive! LOL

I think I can reduce the kibble with the Raw group, just last night and today, they barely touched it. I think what I'll do it put less in their cage morning and evening. Just to make sure Butter has kibble all day. And for the other group, I'll let them eat at night, and in the morning remove their kibble and they can wait 'till I get home from work.

OMG Baylee gave me a start, I found her in the bottom of the cage this evening and she was limp, I thought she was dead! My heart skipped a beat, then I remember Sleep of the Dead, Bacon's done this to me before, ok, don't panic laid her down on the couch and just started rubbing her and after a minute she just popped up and looked at me like whats wrong, how'd I get here? LOL

The soup I have been making is pretty thick, as thick as I can make it without burning out my blender. And the chunks I've been cutting up to long strips, and fat chunks. This is today's raw.

You can't see it great, but it is pretty chunky. This is at 12 O'Clock (going Clockwise) Baylee, Biscuit, Thyme, Barlee and Bon Bon.

They were very ready to eat, I stand in the middle of the living room tapping the plate with the spoon and just about everyone comes a running, then I put the plate down and everyone else scatter, like Aw man, not this Sh*$ again! LOL

This begger is Briar, the one refusing raw, this is what he does to convince me to give him kibble.

[sherrylynne]

OMG! That face would be so hard to resist !
I gather Butter is still doing well with the thick soup, then. Can you try mashing a bit of ground with a fork, and mixing it into his, since he gets some separately? So there aren't really any chunks in there, but so he gets a bit more texture? See how he does with that.
And the coming running, then running away? Mine still do that sometimes, too. But it's because they want their chunks, not this puree soup nonsense . I keep them eating soup once or twice a week. That way, if one of them has to have some meds they don't like, I'll just put it in the soup!
For the ones eating the chunks with soup fairly well, try, just for the heck of it, offering each of them a raw strip. See what they do with it.

[saphire2815]

For Butter, what I've been doing is holding him and not allowing him to run away when he runs into a chunk, and he willing continues to eat, I just have to keep lots of soup around, and he seems to be taking the small chunks and eating them, he's so delicate about it, small little nibbles. This way even though he isn't eating the larger strips, he's getting use to them. But I still have to hold. Today he did run up and stiff the plate.

I have been adding less soup to the food, but they seem to like a good coating. I am going to have to start cutting up everything on the weekends though, this is taking a lot of time.

But I have to admit I have been seeing a lot more of the ferrets lately, this is good, and their coats have seemed to just glimmer, especially the good eaters.

[sherrylynne]

Transitioning them is rather time consuming! I used to do all mine on w/e's as well. I'd bag up what I figured they'd eat in a couple of days per bag(only had 4 ferrets at the time!), then toss a couple of bags to defrost in the fridge ahead of time. I still do that now- just the chunks are a lot bigger .
That's great that Butter is taking the small pieces! Out of curiosity, when he runs, does he take the small piece with him, or just simply leaves? One of mine, when she runs into a piece of meat that didn't quite puree, she'll run off with it, no matter how small. It only takes her a second or two to swallow the piece, but she still feels the need to hide to eat it.
You're doing great so far! Such a wonderful ferrent

[saphire2815]

Butter just runs away, he'll nibble on the small pieces right where he is when he gets them, he just tends to just decide aw big, not gonna eat that, time to go! But the second I scoop up some soup over the chunk he go, Oh, theres still some of that left, OK I'll eat. He really isn't getting a lot of raw in him, but he is already reaping the rewards.

About the skin, I've been buying the thighs with the skin on, am I suppose to be including all the skin, or only a portion of it. I've been including it all this week, but I'll cut back if I need too.

My boys were at their Grandma's for the last two weeks, and they got home today and really noticed a difference in the ferrets. So two thumbs up for this.

[sherrylynne]

Definitely include the skin! They can use the fat. That's where a good bit of their energy requirements are met, is with fat.
Just keep working with Butter with the ground pieces until he's comfortable with eating them, in whatever way works for him, and you. His intake of the raw will increase over time. Patience is the key.
Isn't it amazing how quickly they reap the benefits of raw? Even with a small amount, their bodies are better able to utilize the nutrition in the meal, as compared to either kibble or cooked.

[saphire2815]

Yesterday I hosted a Play date Murphysmom came over along with another ferret friend between the three of us there was 20 ferrets here. I owned half of them!

So I switched Cages, so in my larger FN cage now houses Bon Bon, Butterscotch, Biscuit, Thyme, Barlee and Baylee. Those are the ones that are eating raw really good and are eating minimal kibble, so I can keep Butter with Kibble. Also Biscuit is the only big guy in that group, so it should be fine with 5. Then in the smaller FF cage (as described as the mini me of the FN) I put Briar, Blaze, Bandit and Bacon and they are resisting the raw more, and I've decided that I am not going to push them right now. Get the easy group converted then and let the harder group take their time. Even though today Bandit for the first time actually went and ate from the raw dish without prompting for the first time today. So maybe just letting them set the pace works best for that group.

Everything is going good, I'm making sure the chunky bits are big enough to make everyone have to chew chew chew their food, Bon Bon, Baylee and Biscuit love it, Barlee is showing a lot more interest and Butter actually took up a few piece to chew, but still will only eat a good portion only when I'm holding him. I guess if I have to spoil one, it's OK.

Bandit ate a few bites this morning without prompting, and Bacon I prompted a little bit then he just licked all the soupy mix off of all the chunky bits. I tried prompting Blaze he wanted nothing, and I'm just leaving Briar alone right now.

Murphysmom left a few bits of the Stella's chewies and wysong and few other varied commercial raw stuff, so I'll see how Briar takes to those maybe that will be the way I go for him. That stuff is a bit pricey though so he has to totally fall in love with it.

[sherrylynne]

That playdate sounds like it would have been a blast . 20 balls of fur running everywhere!
For the "good" ones, just keep them going as they are for a couple of days. That way they get into the habit of chewing, then you can increase the size a wee bit.
With the ones taking a bit longer, that's ok. Sometimes it's easier on you to focus on one group at a time. Not everyone has to be switched at the same pace. I'd still take out the kibble for a period of time, though. Just to make them a bit hungrier for their food
With the freeze dried, you could try sprinkling it over the kibble and mixing it in as well. That way they are getting it both ways.
I know it's tiring switching this many, but you're doing a great job, and fuzzums will thank you when it's finally over!