Saphire2815's Switching Thread

[saphire2815]

I got home and the kibble was gone, so they were hungry. I'm still trying to get a feel for who is liking it more. Each day it seems one that was resistant yesterday isn't today and one that wasn't yesterday is now. Grrr.

I decided to mix half and half my original soup that I still had some and the new batch that they are resisting and had better luck.

Bon Bon she loves it all, raw pieces and all. Biscuit is taking quite well to it, other than the fact he really really doesn't want to touch it with his nose, it's funny watching him try to eat scrunching his nose up in the air. Hunger does motivate Briar he's eaten the most ever has, up until this evening he would only lick it off my finger while I hold him. Tonight he would lick some off the spoon, then lick my hand, back to spoon, back to hand, and he ate a spoonful this way. Blaze, Bacon, and Butterscotch ate some, but not a lot, more than yesterday and this morning, but as soon as I place the kibble back in, they all three had their heads in those bowls. Thyme is acting like Briar was yesterday.

Two steps forward one step back. It seems they know eventually I'll give them back the kibble and if they hold out long enough they will get to eat. Smart critters!

I'll let you know how things go tomorrow night. I have to watch and see who is starting to get excited about raw, other than Bon Bon so I can put them in the same cage as Butterscotch with the kibble, and start withholding more from the resisters! But the resisters change from day to day

[sherrylynne]

They will keep going back and forth for a while. Until they actually realize meat is yummier! Just keep what your doing right now. It's actually going well.

[saphire2815]

Well nothing real new tonight. Bon Bon is the queen of the Raw and everyone else is showing a little bit of interest, except Briar and Thyme. They are the resistance! (said with a bad french accent) I'll keep things up right now with the soup. I think on the weekend when I will be able to have raw available all day and no kibble maybe I'll be able to get more interest.

So for now Bon Bon, Biscuit (as long as it doesn't touch his nose, eww gross) and Blaze are liking it the most. Butterscotch doesn't like it, but doesn't hate it. Bacon and Bandit I can convince, and Briar and Thyme really want nothing to do with it. I'll keep plugging away and let y'all know how things go tomorrow.

[sherrylynne]

Zeus makes the weirdest faces when he's eating his soupies. You swear he'd just had something extremely bitter . I'd also keep giving the soups a couple of times a week, even after they are fully transitioned. It's a great place to hide meds!

[saphire2815]

Well my boys Grandma dropped them off today at 2:30, so I was able to have the kibble removed and when I got home tonight I had hungry ferts. Amazing how hunger motivates. I was able to get everyone to eat some. Briar and Thyme are still resisting, but taking a bit more than yesterday. One of my sons commented how there is less poo, so I must be doing something right.

I hadn't updated on the cats. Colby is happy to make the switch, I think he wishes I would move faster. Rachel is so cute she has to dip her paw in it and lick it off! Cleo will take tid bits here and there, but I'm not going to force her. She is a long hair that doesn't groom herself so I have to traumatize her every couple of months by holding her down and cutting her hair. I'm going to have to get the rescue remedy stuff I've seen Heather talk about before i have to do that again. Poor cat, but I can't let her matt up.

Bon Bon is on the same page as Colby, she even scoops up the chunky bits and eats them up, she has a hard time with the larger pieces (I couldn't get ALL of them as small as I would like, seems like there is one big chunk in each batch of 4 cubes) she tries, but gives up. Also this morning when I put her in the cage, she sniffed the kibble and then walked away.......is it a sign?

Also my business might grow by one, I'll know tomorrow. My friend has a large group of ferrets and this one is just getting picked on by several her ferrets, to the point where he is loosing weight and and she wants him to go to someone she knows will take good care of him. She called and asked me to take him tonight, I said I would if she was positive it is what she wanted to do. She said she is, but she just got a 3rd cage today, so she might be able to reorganize so it works out, but I think she is resolved to it. He's a Marked DEW. He's been here and likes my kibble and already knows and gets along with everyone here, so it should be an easy transition to a new home. And it doesn't hurt that I have been wanting a DEW since I started this trip to being owned by ferrets.

Well no work tomorrow so I am going to pull the kibble early and just try to get everyone to eat raw through out the day. How long can it sit on the floor before I need to remove it and put fresh down?

[sherrylynne]

Hunger is a major motivator for many ! And yes, the lower amount of stool happens very quickly. They're utilizing more of what they're eating, so less comes out. I love that part
If you are putting out soup, about 6-8 hours. Smaller chunks, 8-10.
With the kitty that enjoys the raw, try tossing her part of a chicken wing or neck. You may have to mash the bone up with a mallet, because she'll probably be intimidated by it, but it's worth a shot! You may save yourself several steps with her. For the one having a bit of trouble with larger pieces, try cutting some thin strips for her(?). Almost like meat spaghetti. That way, she still gets the feel of a small piece, but actually has to chew a bit.
If you do get the new fuzzy, you do realize you'll have to post pics, of course

[saphire2815]

Well today was a bust, my friend came over with her business and I hadn't seen them in over a month. I think she is having more problems than bullying. They all had lost so much weight that the first thing I did was grab my kibble mix container which had about 5 cups of kibble and put it on the floor for them to eat. And eat they did. Broke my heart. I didn't know what to do, so they spent the better part of 5 hours here eating. They probably ate 4 cups of kibble between the 11 of them, and I know thats a lot, because my 8 usually go through 2 cups through and entire 24 hour period.

Well she left the one with me,


You can see he is just he is just skin and bones.

I'm going to restart offering raw again tomorrow, I was wondering if I should hold off a bit for him, let him gain some weight and get comfy here? Or do you think he would benefit starting him off tomorrow.

[sherrylynne]

I'd start offering him the raw soup right away. He'll get far more nutrition from that than from the kibble. And he looks like he could use it! Check out this thread from josiesmom: holisticferret.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=raw&thread=3270&page=1
She's got a really good method for putting weight on ferrets very quickly. And this poor little man can use it! I'm so glad you could take him in. Try not to feel bad for the others. Other than showing off how healthy yours are, there's not much you can do, unfortunately, other than what you have already done. She really does need to place a number of them. And please tell her not to offer them for free on places like craig's list. Some very nasty things can happen to them then. She needs to be sure of where they are going.

[saphire2815]

Well I had left kibble in the cages overnight, so no one was really hungry this morning, except for Bon Bon, she's an easy girl. I did offer soup to the new guy. I haven't figured a name yet, it's gotta start a b, I did offer him soup this morning and he really wanted nothing to do with it. I pulled the kibble and I'll do today what I originally planned and wait until they are hungry to try and feed then.

I'll try to start introducing more starting next week, I get paid on friday so I can go shopping then. Do you have any suggestions on what would be good things to buy to start out with?

[sherrylynne]

For the name, instead of a "B", you could call him Sage. Then all you need is a Rosemary
For intro'ing meats, chicken thigh, heart, wings, necks and livers. Mine also love pork, and I have one little beef heart fanatic . The chicken wings/necks are really good intro bones for them.
Whatever you get, try to "mix and match" different cuts, if possible. One of my favourite things are the "final day" sales on meats. I usually get at least 30% off, sometimes more.

[saphire2815]

I will get some of those, with thighs you can get them with or without the skin, which is better? I'm thinking w/skin. I saw marrow bones at a grocery store, it looks like a big ham bone cut in sections so you can get to the marrow, I've read a few strings saying marrow is good, if it's not from a cured ham (I didn't look too close just saw and made a mental note) would that be ok? Also so far the only way I can find chicken hearts is in a package with the giblets, what are giblets concidered? Organ Meat? I'm not even sure what a gizzard is, other than I hate in my stuffing every thanksgiving!

Ok, So my son came up with a name for our new little boy, we really want to stay on the B group (Thyme wasn't the name we gave her ) so its Barlee, and I got one more from her, it's one that I wanted since the day I met this little ferret, and we decided with Baylee for her, so it's Barley and Baylee (Barnum was a close 2nd)

So Baylee is a hoarder (survival I'm sure) and isn't in as bad of shape as Barley but she is also very fluffy and it hides her condition, but Here is her shot.



I did get some of the soup into everyone, both Barlee and Baylee enjoyed it a bit, Baylee almost as enthusiastic and Bon Bon gets, but then she was hungry, probably hadn't eaten since she left yesterday. I'll post better pics in the pic section

I took the kibble away from everyone around 8 this morning and waited for everyone to get hungry and was able to get everyone but Briar and Bandit to eat some. Briar refuses the soup and then follows me ALL over the place begging for food or treats or anything that wasn't that SOUP. Butterscotch is now resisting eating the soup, but he still seems to be doing so much better now than he was before I started this journey. I noticed that most of them like it creamier so today's batch I tried to make it how I found most like to eat it. I'll just start cutting tiny chunks of raw and add to it when I am giving it to Bon Bon because she seems to be the only one who likes it and will eat them. And the Cats clean the bowl every time.

Another work week, lets see how things go with this group.

[sherrylynne]

You are doing really well. And now comes the hard part! Some are going to bypass others quite a bit pretty quickly. This all depends on how you want to do it. You can either keep them all at the same level until the laggers catch up, or if you're comfortable with it, you can let the avid ones go ahead. That means preparing different meals for different groupings.
For Briar, keep scruffing and dabbing on her nose., and having her lick it off your finger, or a spoon if possible. The same goes for Butterscotch.
When you get some different meats in, if you like, you can try making smaller batches of different meats. Some will take to a different flavour.
If you do decide to try some freeze dried, you can sprinkle it over the kibbles when that's in the cage. That way, you're tackling the switch from two different angles. That will work better with yet other ferrets.
The thing to keep in mind is they are all individuals, and some will like one thing, some another! You can also try adding about a tbsp of heavy cream to the soup for flavour. That's what worked for Boris and Zeus.
And yay for the kitties! Give them a pat for me! If you'd like to know a bit more about raw for cats, here's a really good link: www.rawfedcats.org/practicalguide.htm Their dietary requirements are slightly different than ferrets. They need far less bone and liver, for starters.

[sherrylynne]

Sapphire, I asked on Natural Ferrets how long an insulnomic ferret could safely be without food(thinking of Butterscotch). The response I got was interesting. Here it is in it's entirety:

*I don't think it's really known.

I've looked after a few insulinomic ferrets (boarders & one of my own) and in my experience how long they go between meals really depends on what food the ferret is willing to eat.

I guess the problem in this case if you are trying to help switch them, is that the ferret is only eating kibble so by it's nature it isn't going to give the ferret sustained energy. If he were already eating raw stuff he could probably be fine for a few hours, but that isn't much help is it!

If I were switching a ferret with insulinoma I would go the slow method rather than tough love.

Has the ferret you mentioned had BG levels tested? (and if so what were they?) Is he/she on pred (which would help stabilise BG)

I recently looked after a ferret with advanced insulinoma and he was eating just kibble when he came to me. I put down small pieces of chicken meat every 12 hours. I took him for a walk (more of a slow stroll, he was quite shaky on his legs) in the yard every day and he was always much more keen on the chicken after the walks - I guess exercise & sunshine helps get the body & digestive system moving so it motivates them to eat more. That could be something you could suggest.*

[saphire2815]

I suspect Butterscotch has insulinoma. I'm diabetic and tried to get blood out of him one time to see if I could get some kind of reading, my lancets wouldn't break the skin and I had no idea of a good place to poke! I'm in the process of saving $$ to get his bloodwork done. I feel so bad because I want to take him to the vet, but the money's not there, I have to keep feeding my human kids, and teenage boys EAT A LOT.

Here's his backstory. He was given to me a couple months ago in Mid May with Bon Bon, they were both very skinny and dehydrated, so I rushed out got pedialite and uncle jims duk soup and some baby chicken food. I get beachnut 'cause it is just meat and water, gerber adds cornstarch, and made the duk soup with the pedialite and would just give them soup and water as much I could get them to eat. Bon Bon got well quick and took to the ferret food and was war dancing in a day, but it took 2 weeks to get butterscotch to eat anything other than cat food, and the duk soup, but he never had any energy so I started suspecting a problem, but not sure, being I'm new to this being owned by ferrets and all and he is over 4 years old, so I was also passing the inactivity off as an old fert. Then I saw a post on another board from someone who suspected insulinoma in their ferret, and basically described butterscotch, well a bell went off. Being broke and all, I started researching natural care and found that the less carbo's the better. I had been on the fence to go raw since January, but didn't know enough about it, then Gan had posted the link to this site on the meet-up board I am on with MurphysMom. So I haunted here for a while, when another raw feeder started posting on our board, she started posting about the little ferret she was saving, and it was what convinced me that this is what I needed to do. I feel bad, I wish I started this sooner, but I'm glad I'm here now. It's going to be a gradual change. I'm pushing him more than everyone, and I have to say I have seen a change in his activity. I see a lot more of him now than I ever have since I've gotten him. So I know I am doing the right thing. And the rest of the bunch that are accepting the raw are bouncing off the walls! What I thought was active OMG! I think I had a bunch of lazy ferrets! I can't wait to see how they get when they are completly changed over! I know in the long run this will save me money. I don't know if whole prey will be affordable for me to be able to do it all the time, but I thing Frankenprey is comparable in price to kibble and if it helps then awesome!

So now that this post went long. How is it going with the crew, the soup I made last night was a lot smoother than the last batch and was very well received. Of course Bon Bon, I did have to convince her the smooth stuff was as good as the chunky, but once she started there was no stopping her. Barlee and Baylee love it. Baylee would just run up to the bowl and go to town. Barlee I would have to get a dab on his nose, but once he tasted it, he decided it wasn't all that bad . Butterscotch, Bandit, Biscuit, Bacon, and Blaze like it creamy, some ate more than others, but they all had some. Briar liked the Creamy, no loved the creamy, there might be convincing him yet. Thyme liked it too, I'm still having a hard time getting a read on her. She is a small eater, we'll see.

I used all my chicken in this soup, so tomorrow on my way home I'll stop to get some thigh meat to add chunks for Bon Bon and Blaze.

I'll check out the info on the cat's raw diet too. Because all three of the kitties are getting into it. Colby may go completly, Rachel Maybe, and Cleo, I can't read, but then she's mental anyway.

[sherrylynne]

It sounds like everyone is doing well! I can't even imagine switching 7 at once . I had fun doing 4. I think you'll find that some will not want much chunkier than the smooth soup for a while, then suddenly, they'll decide chunks are wonderful, and not look back.
For the interim, until we know one way or the other, we'll proceed as if Butterscotch is insulinomic. It certainly won't hurt to do so.
And kudos if your cats actually switch! Out of 4, I've got one on semi-raw