Kayla & Eden's Big Switch

[Heather]

Pm me with your phone number or a number that I can reach you at. That way I have it. Are you furbabies going with you? I hope that you have a great time and enjoy your holidays
I just allowed my guys to kill off the bachelor group a couple of days ago . I really was rather dreading it as I'm a bit of a softheart myself. It wasn't that bad. The guys are very quick and efficient. As much as I hate to kill anything, it provided them with stimulation, and food. They killed ( I used my most successful hunters) and supplied not only themselves but the rest of the business with snacks. If you're going to do live prey start with the very young and work up. The guys that I used have successfully hunted rats so I wasn't too worried about them hunting mice. I may let some of my lesser experienced guys hunt some of the younger bachelors to give them experience. I hate them to botch up the kill. I've watched a botched kill when my guys were given a rat that was too large for them to kill cleanly. They did get it right in the end but is was horrible and I swore that it wouldn't happen ever again. My guys no longer hunt rats (they get those frozen) Which also means that they can have various ages from younger, smaller to the larger older rats too. This gives them varied mineral and trace nutritional values but means that they can have this without risk of either injury to themselves or a messy kill that causes hurt and severe fear.
You can order from places like Rodentpro (they're an online service) and they will ship throughout the US and they will do the kill, so you don't have to deal with it. You can also create little gas chambers (there are instructions on line) that can gas your little rodents so that your guys don't have to kill anything (that is how my supplier doe in the rats that I get)
I've heard that hamsters are aggressive prey animals and should only be attempted by knowledgeable ferrets. I don't know this for sure but that is my understanding. I would guess that they wouldn't be starter prey either way you look at it. Some start with pinkeys and work up from there. I found that pinkeys were awfully small but my guys liked them anyway ( I had some that were injured by their mouse parents) so fed them to my guys rather than waste them. I think a lot depends on you and you're going to have to make those decisions yourself, I'm willing to help you get there what ever way you choose.
Good luck, have fun....Merry Christmas and enjoy your holidays.
ciao

[halbear]

Hello! I'm finally back from vacation now! Boy it sure feels good to be home! I really missed my little girls. How was your Christmas and New Year? I hope it was great!
I have lots of new news with the little ones. Before I left for vacation, I decided to take Kayla to the veterinarian because her hair loss was just getting worse and worse. The doctor said that although her vulva had not changed in size it was adrenal disease and he gave her a shot of lupron and told me to come back in 30 days for a second shot of lupron. He also said that her hair would likely start to fill back in after the second shot of lupron. What is your take on this? I worry about her so much. I do not want her to be in any pain or be on so many different medications.
On another note, the girls are eating fine. When I was on the cruise, my dad said that Kayla ate fine but that Eden refused to eat the raw food and would only eat the kibble. I wonder why? He said she would just turn her head and refuse the food every time he tried to offer her the raw. Maybe she just missed me...
In any case, I hope you had a wonderful Christmas and I look forward to talking to you soon!

Cristina and the fuzz butts!

[halbear]

Hello! I hope you had a great weekend! I sent a pm to Giuli. Thank you for all of your help with regard to my situation. I will pass on any and all information she may send me.
The girls are doing well! Kayla has an appointment this coming Friday for her second dosage of lupron. They are eating well too.
I just wish poor Kayla wasn't so cold all the time. I hate to see her always shivering. The doctor said that the adrenal can make their skin thin out and I'm sure the fact that she has lost most of her hair doesn't help either. I am trying to find someone to make her a little sweater that will fit her. I tried to find one that may fit her at various different pet stores, but the ones they make are so big. Probably predominately for male ferrets.
Well, I hope all is well with you and you little guys! I'll talk to you soon!

[Heather]

???Are you pulling out of the program?
Awww, Poor Kayla, she has my sympathies. At least I can keep piling on the sweaters until I start to feel warm. I have a person I'm mentoring (I do a lot of the sicker fuzzy switches) and she had a sweater made for her furbaby. I will ask her where she got hers. Now, it is a boy so it may not be of much help. I know a lot of fuzzymoms had to make adjustments on the clothing for their tiny little girls. I know that if Calypso ever is going to need clothing (I will have to get her a harness in the spring) I will have to do some innovative construction as she's less than a pound. The little old lady Babushka had to have a harness specially made for her at 1.05 lbs so I can sympathise how difficult it might be. I did have a suggestion that I remember from one of the other lists. They used socks....children's socks....I will see if I can find out for you. Let me know what's going on....thanks
ciao

[halbear]

No no no, I'm not pulling out of the program. I sent a PM to Giuli about the deslorin research that you said she had.
I really appreciate you asking the girl you mentor about where she got her babies sweater made.
Yes, I am thinking about learning how to knit so that I can make her a sweater that will actually fit her. It can't be that hard!
You know, children's socks are really not a bad idea. I will have to look into that. It would be so easy to cut out a couple of holes for her head and arms and stuff. Well, all is well on my end! I hope everything is going well with you! I'll talk to you soon!

[Heather]

I'm glad that you're not leaving the program You're guys are doing really well. I really should ask you for an update as to what your guys are eating. How far are you going to take your raw feeding? Whole meats? Prey? or Ground? Your guys are now eating their meat on their own right?
I will check with about the coat as soon as she gets back on. She's in an upheaval right now, trying to buy a house The area where she's trying to buy is a very difficult neighbourhood to buy with some really overinflated pricing. So I think that she's devoting some big time in searching. I will pm her about the sweater.
I pm'd Giuli about the deslorin inplant too...haven't heard back though. I will guess that she's busy, though she did pm me regarding how to graduate you guys if you're finished your goals. If you hear back from her before I do please do pass on the information, thanks. That reminds me I have to ask about the sock shirts. I will check back with you later.
ciao

[Heather]

I just got a message back regarding the sweaters, I will copy her message to me
** Mr. Poley's hoodie was from an online store call Ferret Couture www.ferretcouture.co.uk/. They are based in the UK and have the cutest little hoodies for a pretty girl furkid. I have to confess, they are pretty pricey for what they're selling. Usually Emily (I think she's the owner) replies pretty quickly to emails but I haven't heard back from her on a recent request. I would suggest getting a solid email reply before placing an order, just to find out if there's any delay.

I read about using tube socks as improv clothing for ferrets too. Basically you cut the toe of the sock off, slip it onto the ferret, mark where the front paws are. Cut out the armholes and PRESTO! I haven't tried it myself but conceptually it's very doable. Test it out on some holey old socks, get the design down and then get some nice pink cashmere socks for the real thing Tube socks probably works best as you don't have to worry about the heel... or use the leg part of some long knee socks! Oh the possibilities! <I think I just saw Poley slowly backing away from his crazy mommy>**

Anyway, I hope that helps you find some warm apparel for your sweet little girl. Give her a big hug from me and we will secretly say special wishes for a warm fuzzy coat to start to grow on her .
ciao

[halbear]

Hey Heather!! How are you? Yes, I have heard of www.ferretcoutoure.co.uk. I actually looked on there the other day and found some really cute stuff! Apparently they can custom make the sweaters if you send them your baby's measurements. I pan to do that very soon!! They are pretty pricey though! The sweaters are around 12.99 euro and the shipping is approx 10 euro. I think that would convert to like 30 us dollars. I was debating on ordering it because I though I might be able to find one cheaper somewhere else, but so far I have not had any luck.
I will definitely wait for a solid email reply before placing an order with them. Definitely before all that though, I am going to try an old sock to see how that will hold up! I bet she would love a pretty little pink cashmere sock!!

Ya, I would prefer to make it myself because if for some reason the shirt I ordered her from ferret couture didn't fit, then it would be very pricey to try to refund it...
Thank you for all of your prayers and concern! I truly hope her coat starts to come back in. She just had her second shot of lupron this past Friday. She is doing well! Actually, they both are doing really good! They both have put on more weight and seem to be happy, so thats all that matters I guess! Just that they are happy and pain-free!!! Well, I hope all is well with you and I look forward to talking with you soon!!!

[Heather]

You know which ever way you decide to play the game (prefab or homeade fertsock) you will have to post some pics of your cute little girl in her new togs
Ok....business.... How are your little girls eating and what?? Inquiring minds want to know I'm glad to hear that they're putting on weight...that sounds good. Enjoying life that's even better, but I really have to know what they're eating now:)
I will check in with you later.
ciao

[halbear]

I will definitely post some pictures of Kayla soon! She is too cute!!
The little girls are doing great! They are still eating that ground soupy mixture. It is definitely more solid, as there is very little liquid in the food. They have been eating right from the plate lately. Although the grinder I am using grinds up most of the bones, there are still some pieces that aren't small enough. Kayla doesn't seem bothered by the small pieces, but Eden just spits them out every time.
Should we try anything different like making their food even more solid or are they fine for now? I am still interested in introducing a mouse to them, but haven't got up the courage yet to do so.
Other than Kayla's hair problem or lack thereof, the girls are doing great and eating well! Just let me know what the next step is! I'll talk to you soon!!! Have a great day!

[Heather]

Your guys are eating the raw well, spitting out some of the bones seems to go with the territory. Have you tried whole meats at all? You could try some chicken wings, or try cutting a piece of meat off your own meal and seeing if they will eat it. What meats have you tried with your guys?
If you want to start prey, I would consider starting with pinkies, or the one size up....fuzzies?? I'm not sure what they're called. They will know when you go to buy them. Do you plan to feed live or feed frozen? Let's see about moving your little girls on in their feeding adventure.
ciao

[halbear]

Hello! I have tried whole meats. They seem to eat really small chunks of chicken. Eden likes just about any kind of cooked meat, but she is very picky with raw meats. She definitely likes to eat meat from my meal. She will eat turkey, chicken, ham, roast beef, ground beef, steak, etc. Whenever I try to give Kayla meat from my plate she just gives me this look, turns her nose up at me and walks away. It's actually very funny!
If I were to try live feeding, when I go into the pet store would I just ask for live feeder pinky mice?
I would like to move them along on their feeding adventure. I am just so happy that they are eating from the plate on their own for the most part.
I hope all is well, and I will talk to you soon!!

[halbear]

Hey Heather! I haven't heard from you in awhile. I posted before, but I'm not sure if you saw it. To reiterate what I said, I have tried whole meats. They seem to eat really small chunks of chicken. Eden likes just about any kind of cooked meat, but she is very picky with raw meats. She definitely likes to eat meat from my meal. She will eat turkey, chicken, ham, roast beef, ground beef, steak, etc. Whenever I try to give Kayla meat from my plate she just gives me this look, turns her nose up at me and walks away. It's actually very funny!

I found a pet store by my house that offers live feeder mice, rats, and rat pups and I am going to go there tomorrow and pick up a mouse or two for the girls. Hopefully they go for it!! If not, I suppose I can just grid it up after they kill it. Either way, I will let you know how it goes. I also finally found and bought some Norwegian Cod Liver Oil. How much should I be giving them on a weekly basis?

On another note, I found a ferret vet in my area, and her diagnosis for Kayla and possibly Eden is adrenal and she wants to do the surgery. How do you feel about the surgery? I am thinking about the surgery, but I would have a more renowned ferret surgeon named Dr. Deborah Cottrell located a few hours from me do it. I am scared because that is how I lost my Hallie. I'm not sure if you remember or not, but Hallie went in for the adrenal surgery and she did not make it. It was a right adrenalectomy, and there were not any complications but she passed on a day after the surgery. Everything I read says that adrenal surgery is the best option because it can extend their life by a couple years or so, but I am truly scared of losing my babies. Any advice you may have would be great.

I would like to move them along on their feeding adventure. I am just so happy that they are eating from the plate on their own for the most part.
I hope all is well, and I will talk to you soon!!

[Heather]

I truly apologize, I don't know what happened. I answered your letter but it doesn't seem to have posted. This is the second time this has happened in the last couple of weeks I'm so sorry
I will try and remember what I tried to post previously. One of the things that I remember is that I suggested that you try to feed as little ham as possible. There seems to be quite a few furbabies who really like the smoked meats but you really shouldn't feed it as it's salt content is really not good for them. The odd treat shouldn't be too problematic but try and avoid them as much as possible. One of the things you could try, is cutting a small piece of meat for your little one and cook it less and less each time you feed her, until she's eating raw. As far as trying to convince Kayla, you might try little tiny pieces (the size of your fingernail) You can try the old scruff and stuff method, just to try and get her to try it. It doesn't always work but it does get them to at least taste it.
As far as mice, I would try pinkies to start. They don't fight back, they don't have fur which are the two major turn offs as far as getting your furbabies to switch to prey. It's great that you've found a supplier close to you which means that access shouldn't present a problem. You also list a good variety of prey options. That's good.
Be careful feeding cod liver oil and liver. Both have high quantities of vit a. This cannot be processed and disposed of in the urine. If you're feeding liver that week, I would lay off the cod liver oil. I'm going to be honest with you, I don't know how much cod liver oil to feed but I will see if I can find out for you. You might try salmon oil to feed daily. I've fed cod liver oil in the winter to my dogs....but never to anything as small as a ferret. I will see if I can find out that information for you.
I would have some serious concerns about surgery. I certainly don't want to scare you away from something that "might' be beneficial for your furkids. I lost my Pandora to an adrenal surgery. I remember how sick I felt when I held her lifeless little body, so I certainly understand your trepidation. I wish I could just say go for it, your furbaby will be fine, but in all honesty, I cannot. One thing that would give me serious concern is that your guys have insulinomas, right?? That means that they have blood sugar problems and are hard to keep stable. Anesthetic is not to be taken lightly. I noticed that you posted in the health section. I'm only guessing that it's about this as I always come here to see what everyone's up to before I go through the other threads. Hopefully, others will be more optimistic about surgeries than I am. One of the people I mentor, her boy has gone in for this surgery twice and has come out with flying colours both times.I would certainly not allow someone who is only vaguely familiar with ferret surgery to do this. Trusting your surgeon to do the right thing and being able to know if your furchild is in trouble is going to be the biggest issue. Our little adventurers, though bold and surprisingly resilient have such a tenuous hold on life when it comes to surgeries. I'm truly a coward when it comes to surgery and after loosing a younger ferret to orthopedic surgery last spring, both my vet and myself are a little less adventuresome than many. It's just my stand and I certainly don't want to scare you off. Lupron, has been as successful as many surgeries but even that isn't a guarantee. \
Unfortunately, only you can make this decision. This is one time when the decision carries a serious catch 22 decision I wish you luck, and I will light a healing candle for your little girls and another candle to provide light in your decision. Please keep me up to date as to how things are going. Again, please forgive me for not responding to your previous post, I had but it obviously hadn't posted.
ciao

[halbear]

Hello! Don’t worry about it! I might try your little trick about feeding them the meat cooked less each time until its raw. That’s a good idea! I will also stay away from the ham since it has a very high salt content. I thought it was too funny the “scruff and stuff method!” I have never heard of that before!!
I will just stay away from the cod liver oil. I had no idea it was bad. The store did have the salmon oil, so I will just pick that up and use it instead. How much salmon oil should they be getting on a daily basis? Also, is there another type of oil that is better because the store I go to, Whole Foods, has a huge variety of different oils and stuff.
I am quite concerned about surgery. I was very concerned about even putting Kayla under anesthesia for a routine teeth cleaning. I don’t know what to do though, because her teeth are quite bad. They have a lot of plaque and tartar buildup up, but frankly anesthesia scares me. I worry about their blood sugar being stable under anesthesia because their blood glucose levels are lower due to the insulinoma.
I completely understand your resistance to the adrenal surgery because of what happened to my Hallie. I do not blame the Dr. in Gainesville, because I know she did the best she could. Hallie passed away approx 24 hours after the surgery, and I have always felt that it was because of a blood clot to the heart because that is the same way my mother died. I do trust Dr. Cottrell because she has alot of experience, but I fear going back to that place again because I could not bear to lose either one of my girls. When I lost Hallie, I felt so sick. I truly wanted to die with her. I know most people cannot understand my feelings because they do not share the same type of bond that I do with my girls. They do not get as attached as I do. I would do anything for my girls, and I just want to do what is best for them. I want them to live a long, happy, and pain-free life here with me.
Your care and concern truly mean a lot to me Heather. I really appreciate you lighting a candle for my girls and I. This is definitely a matter that I am going to take a lot of time and a lot of prayer on deciding. I just want to do what is right for my babies.
I am going to go in a couple of hours to get the mice for them. I am going to introduce the mice to them this evening when my boyfriend is around because I unfortunately don’t have much of a strong stomach for this because I am a lover of all animals. Either way though, he will be there to intervene if need be. I am also going to have either him or my father videotape the whole thing so that I can have their first hunt on video! I am actually quite excited about the whole thing. I hope that their natural instinct comes in and that they kill the mouse and at least try to eat it. I will definitely let you know how it all goes! Do some people set up a room as a forest with leaves and stuff to sort of create a “natural” setting to provide further stimulation and thrill of the hunt for their ferrets?
Well, I hope all is well with you and your fur babies. I will talk to you soon!!