Seventh heaven goes raw

[ferretpalooza]

Woo Hoo!!!! The grinder is here!!!!! And I have the day off tomorrow!!! I will be a grinding fool....ha ha ha The only thing I am missing here is the hearts, someone in this town has to have them. I will follow your recipe X 100.....ha ha ha ha......and have quart bags full of some yummy, nutritional ground mix in the freezer by tomorrow afternoon. Ill start reducing soup and see if we cant get more bulk in this diet!! I may not be able to get the mice in this batch as I dont want to make this a rush and go thing for Boudreaux so Ill try just getting one this weekend and see how far he goes with it. They I will cut it up (OMG, that sounds so disgusting, I like cut up pieces of meat at the store better...ha ha) and can always lay it over one side of the ground soup mix. Worst case scenerio, i can throw it in the food processor and add to soupies. I just keep in mind Im doing it for the ferrets......LOL

[Forum Administrator]

Sept 25, 2008 16:28:50 GMT -5 @ferretpalooza said:

I will be a grinding fool....ha ha ha

Isnt' it funny how when you feed your ferrets a natural diet you get all excited over cheap meat, grinders, and other random things? I 'bout peed my pants from excitement when I found meat 50% off at the grocery store, and my friday nights usually consist of me packaging meat to put into the freezer, but hey, I have fun so who cares! Welcome to the club of "ferret feeding fanatics"

[Heather]

That is so fantastic. I'm really happy for you and your furbabies. Good luck with Boudreaux and the mouse hunt. He might just surprise you and eat the little sod. Let him play with it, stash it. I find that sometimes the kill isn't necessarily eaten right away. Now my guys eat it just because they know if they don't get to it fast, someone else will eat it . I had to laugh at Little Pooka today as she was busy shaking, and "killing" the frozen rat that I had put out for them. The rat was bigger and heavier than she is I hope that the raw grinding endeavour works out really well for you. I will check in on you later and see how it's going
ciao

[ferretpalooza]

Yeah, I have to laugh....you guys gave me the fever. I have two jumbo packs of thighs, turkey necks, and a large pack of country ribs out thawing. I bet my husband will think it is for dinner when he gets up....ha ha ha

Tonight....the kids ANNIHILATED a whole plate of ground pork with soup!!! I am real excited to see how they do with the good stuff!!! If need be, Ill add more soup but the mix tonight was really, really chunky!!! I also have a beef liver thawing so I will use 1/2 chicken and 1/2 chicken liver in the mix. So we just up the ante and move right along........Thanks for all the support!!!!

[Heather]

Whooo hooo you're doing fantastic I"m so proud of you and your guys. I was waiting for your guys to suddenly hit this part of the feeding...there's no turning back..you know that Take care that you don't add too much liver...you will get icky poopies I will check in with you tomorrow afternoon to see how things went or if your hubby ate all ferret food
ciao

[ferretpalooza]

OK, I had almost 20 lbs of meat, 2 jumbo packs of thighs with all bones and a very large pack of country ribs. I add a pint of chicken liver and one slice of beef liver. The gizzards went bad and I didnt know about adding the eggs through the grinder but I will just add eggs to the soupies for now. Next time I grind meat, maybe Ill process the eggs through the blender and add. Im paranoid of the shell not getting ground enough for them.
Well, I added the new ground to some of the plain pork and soup. Bubba, Boudreaux, Max, Sully and Killa were tearing it up!!! Killa actually sat at the bowl himself once I got him started. The other three had gone off to sleep so they were a little grumpy but I put some in the pen. Ill have it made when they come out in the morning. Its been beautiful in the morning here so Ill let them play outside for a while before I feed them. The grinder worked well, but would not grind up the turkey necks, so Ill cut them in thirds and keep putting them in the pen to see if anyone shows any interest. Noone ate the one the other day.

[ferretpalooza]

Well, I have come to the conclusion that Buster has the typical male ego. just doesnt want to do this cause it's not his idea. All the others will eat and he circles us like a shark. He will speedbump and just stare at the eaters with such a pathetic look on his face . I put a little cream on the leftovers and put him in my lap and he will eat the ground and soup......just not on his own. Then he will leave and come back and sit next to me staring at the bowl. So I pick him up again and we go on with the game. I live in a house of men, Im well versed at this . Killa has just become a big baby and doesnt want to eat unless he's on my lap and Im spooning it to him, however, everyone seems to like moms attention that way so they all lean their heads over to eat his stuff. Anyway, we are moving right along. Bubba is eating more of the raw each day, maybe we can get his head out of the kibble bowl!!!! I have some major work to do on the FN. I set it on bricks when I got back from evac since I had to create stabilizing dowels and such over losing the hardware somewhere between here and Arkansas. I found a poo pile way in the back....yuck. So I need to rebuild the bottom rack and clean all the out. They will be out for a while this afternoon. I showed Miss Sully a RMB with some meat on it and she just kept licking it and looking at me. Some have an interest. When I get the racks back in place, I have been saving small boxes for eating dens. I will start splitting bones in half and down the middle and just keep something in there for them to play with.
Do you think they will start eating RMB on their own or is this something you have to scruff and force to get them started?

[Heather]

I had this really awesome bunch of answers for you and the system booted me out....frustration Anyway, I will try and remember what I was trying to convey to you
First off, Buster and Killa. You're right, they may very well just figure this is so much nicer way to eat, being snuggled by momma and fed. I've known more than one sick fuzzy who decided long after they were doing better who wanted this continued intensive love treatment One thing you can do is start feeding him the way you normally do but as you're feeding him slowly move the spoon closer and closer to the bowl until your feeding him out of the spoon in the bowl. Then you just hold him as he eats out of the bowl. Shortly, place him on the floor and start the spoon thing again but very close to the bowl and repeat as before until he's once again eating out of the bowl. Usually, by this time they're eating on their own They just like lots of lovin's You can try this for both Killa and Buster...
As far as getting them to eat bone...you can't push the process or force the issue (scruffing). They have to be a willing participant to this. That's why we feed liquids to begin with (You can force the issue with liquid ) You can try dipping come chicken pieces (necks or wings, not tips) in some 'tone. I find the little bums usually just lick off the 'tone and leave the meat. I've had much greater success with scoring the meat to the bone and either offering it and leaving it for them or playing tug with them with it. Now that they've had the chance to eat raw meat they will start to associate the flavour with food and hopefully start eating the whole meat. Now, you do have a consolation...you've gone the extra mile and bought a grinder, so it's less imperative for you to move forward on this than say someone who is only feeding egg shell. You still have to move forward to get the benefits but now it's cleaner teeth and muscling of the neck and jaws. A ferret can live quite comfortably on ground meats with the bone ground in it, just not as well as say a ferret who is eating whole meats on the bone and eating that bone with it. You know what I mean You've got the first step, now we're going on to the next
You and your guys are doing great...even your stubborn furbabies are moving right along. I will check in with you later.
ciao

[ferretpalooza]

I wanted to run something by you. They are all willing to eat ground now, some more than others. Now some of them dont want to unless I spoon feed them but they will eat it. I caught Killa in the kibble bowl this morning so his tummy must be getting better since he is eating on his own. I was thinking of just putting a small amount of kibble in the bowl and put a few pieces of the ground in with it. I could change it out each night and wash the bowl, but then the kibble eaters wont be totally getting their way anymore. What do you think?

I cleaned out the cage today and found four pretty significant vomit piles. They were all dry so Im not sure how old. They were hidden in areas that were not obvious. It may have been something with Killa. I have to admit, as much as I didnt like him in the kibble bowl, it did show his interest in eating and he is starting to fill back out. Have you heard of ferrets getting sick when they start eating the raw?? I will be checking all corners each night for a while to make sure this is not a continuing problem. They were all out playing this morning and very active. The poos are starting to look much better and noone is having any massive weight loss so I hope whatever or whoever it was, is worked out.

[Heather]

You can give it a try...you're still offering kibbles but they're also eating the meat touching the kibbles. Are you still going to be supplement feeding these fellows? My one concern would be they decide that they don't want to eat the kibbles that are in with the raw meats. Keep a very close eye on them...... I don't like the vomit thing There is nothing really but to keep a close eye on them and hope that whatever was wrong has now righted itself but I would keep a very close eye out to see that it doesn't happen again or so that you can find out who is having the problem. The fact that it's dried up may indicate that it happened a few days ago and the problem has corrected itself. I have had ferrets when they're first on raw overeat and actually vomit after stuffing themselves. They usually suffer no lasting problems but I do note who it is and if they have a recurring problem ( may be an indication of other problems)
I will check in with you tomorrow and see how things are going and if your little hold outs ate some of the raw as well as their kibbles .
ciao

[ferretpalooza]

I will be checking the entire cage daily and if the vomit shows up again, everyone will get a night in the travel cage till I find out who is sick. Maybe I will wait to add anything to the kibble till I know whoever was vomiting has stopped. Max stuffs himself all the time at the soup bowl. First one there and last one to leave. If anyone is doing it from being stuffed, I would put my money on him. They ate an entire bowl tonight, some voluntary and some prodding but they are continuing to be interested

[Heather]

Sounds good to me
Good luck, hopefully the vomiting is finished.
ciao

[ferretpalooza]

no vomit now but black tarry poops starting up again. what organ is this, liver??? could it be too much liver in the mix??? They are all energetic. Chuckie and Boudreaux are a little thinner but not so thin as to worry yet. Most dont tend to eat when they are out unless I spoon feed them. I have seen Bubba eat the mix in the pen several times by himself, but he is a tank. He eats kibble too!! Killa is holding his own but not putting a significant amount of weight on. Any suggestions?

[Heather]

You could be feeding too much liver. Black tarry stools are usually caused by undigested blood. It can mean that there is too much fresh blood in your mix, usually organ meats or you have someone with a serious stomach problem (ulcer or IBD). Do you have any idea who is making the tarry stools? It's good that there doesn't seem to be any significant energy changes as this might indicate that the problem isn't too serious.
When you cut up your chicken, do you include the fat and skin? I find that this can make a significant difference. I was making the mistake or either trimming the skin and fat or buying skinned meats when I first started feeding ferrets (I was used to feeding dogs and they don't need that much fat, ferrets require it to put on weight). Another option is to allow them some heavy cream (not too much as you could get loose poopies)
How are Chuckie and Boudreaux doing? Are they eating ok? on their own? Are they still eating kibbles? Killa may take time to put on weight, it seems that when they're sick or stressed sometimes they spend a lot of time repairing damage, rather than putting on weight. Keep a close eye on these guys, they're still in the danger zone as far as eating the raw. It's great news about Bubba, it seems that he's taking to this whole eating thing really well So, I'm thinking that out of the seven furbabies you are only concerned with the 3, Chuckie, Boudreaux and Killa?
I will check in on you tomorrow and see how you're doing. Good luck, keep up the great work
Ciao

[ferretpalooza]

I used all skin, bones and meat from the chicken thighs (2 jumbo packs-10 lbs), and cut all the meat and fat off of a 6 lb pack of country ribs (very meaty and fatty, not much bone). So it was about 16-18 lbs of meat and I added a pint of chicken livers and one slice of beef liver. I am adding about 4-5 ounces to the soup mix which includes about 7 cubes of raw/cooked soup. Do you think they are getting too much liver with the mix?? Their poos have never been quite right since the whole ECE issue last Dec. I have heard ferrets who have had ECE has a risk of devoloping IBD. Do you think the stress of the whole food change could trigger this? Not sure who is making them. I dont see them when they are out. I only see them in the litter boxes when I empty them. It is always the drier looking poo. Could it just be a color change in the poo as it dries??? I have been drizzling a little cream or vanilla yogart on the mix at night to get them to eat better since they are more tired and tend to not eat as much at night. Yes, Chuckie, Boudreaux and Killa are my concerning ones but like I said, noone is getting bone thin, although killa has gotten quite thin so I hope he starts putting a little weight back on. Anything you suggest for the tummies? How do they diagnose IBD? I dont think my vet is very thrilled about the food change, she just nodded but didnt make any comments. Im afraid if I bring them in she will just blame it on the diet change.