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Post by Heather on Sept 30, 2008 23:37:57 GMT -5
Are you putting some pumpkin in your mix? If not you could add some....I"m thinking about 1/4 to 1/2 cup considering the amount that you're making up. Even the ones that don't really need it would benefit as it offers some of the bulk matter (they can't really digest it but is works like the skin and fur of your prey animals). You are correct, in that quite often ECE ferrets develop stomach issues and this could indeed be the cause of some of your guys problems. That being said it could be the switch but I'm more likely to think that it's the stress of the hurricane and changes that were well beyond your control that has upset the balance. I would cut back on the liver and see if this corrects itself....I'm trying to think how much a pint is..(we use ml. here  ) .but I"m thinking no more than 1 cup of liver. See if that helps you out and clears up the dark poopies. I'm taking it that these dark poopies are not a regular happening but occasional episodes. I just thought of something too. Are the stools really tarry looking or just dark. Raw poopies range in colours from quite pale (lots of bone) to very dark (lots of red meat or organs). So it's not quite like kibbles where the colour is always the same. It's just a thought. I don't want you to turn a blind eye to what may be a problem but I also don't want you to worry overly about what may actually be a normal occurance. Let's try the changes that I have suggested let's see what happens  You have my sympathies regarding vets who aren't that keen on raw diets. My normal vet (who is now very pregnant and feeling very ill) is really pro raw, but her associates are not so I know where you're coming from. I've found that when dealing with discenting vets is try and draw their attention away from diet and get them looking for the disease. Some never do, but so far I've been relatively lucky in that even though some aren't pro raw they will give me the benefit of the doubt. Good luck, I will check in again. ciao |
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Post by ferretpalooza on Oct 1, 2008 0:31:13 GMT -5
I added pumpkin to the ground raw meat. You may be right in the mix. It has bones and chicken but the pork was more of the red colored ribs than the light pork as in pork chops. I need to make some more soup on Thurs morning. I have one more tray of the plain raw cubes so I will add more of that. Like I said, the poo looks darker as it dries, so it may just be a new color Im not used to. They all came out tonight and we had towel rides and all 7 were jumping around and dancing. They inhaled an entire bowl of the ground soup mix. I made another smaller bowl and put it in the pen overnight. I know what you are saying about not putting too much meaning on all this. The time will change this month and they will usually start putting on winter weight soon. For the most part, the ones I have always had trouble with are looking great. As long as they are eating and the energy levels are up...noone is bony thin and there has been no vomit in two days, Im just holding steady. Ill still keep a bowl of kibble in the cage for now, but all seven are eating the ground/soup mix so Ill stay here and see if eveyone can catch up on weights and more start eating on their own.
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Post by Heather on Oct 1, 2008 0:40:18 GMT -5
Ahhhh towel rides my guys love that game  It sounds good to me. Keep an eye on everybody but it looks like things are going well. My biggest concern would be the darker poops but I'm trying to think back when I first started feeding my guys raw and I'm thinking I got a little freaked out by the strange colours of poops too. Keep up the good work, sounds to me like your guys are well on their way. Talk at you later (hey, we've been doing really good tonight ) ciao |
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Post by Forum Administrator on Oct 1, 2008 13:54:15 GMT -5
ILike I said, the poo looks darker as it dries, so it may just be a new color Im not used to. Its normal Raw fed poopie just looks darker then kibble poopie. Kibble usually looks the same color going in as it does coming out, light brown (yuck  ) raw food often turns a dark brown color, it gets blacker when you have more bloody foods (beef, liver, etc). Its fine if the poop looks dark as long as they arent exhibiting symptoms like teeth grinding (signs of stomach pain). Raw poop will look different every day, depending on the food you feed. Raw poop will also be more moist then kibble poop (not runny, but a little more mushy) because of the high moisture content of raw food compared to kibble. |
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Post by ferretpalooza on Oct 1, 2008 18:03:17 GMT -5
Thanks Guiliana. I think maybe Im just not used to the color. I appreciate you sharing that with us.
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Post by ferretpalooza on Oct 2, 2008 16:17:31 GMT -5
We may be getting ready to turn another corner here. I needed to make a new batch of soup this morning. I had to cut the meat off of thigh bones and slice it in cubes for my food processor so I was in the kitchen cutting away for over an house since I make large batches. Well, the ferrets were out and they kept coming in one at a time looking at me but I wasnt going to feed them till I was done. Boudreux kept jumping on my leg begging so I handed him a chunk of raw meat. He went under the chair then came back. He did this several times. When I looked later, there were 4 stashed pieces but he took many more under there so he is starting to eat raw chunks like a treat. Even though they are eating ground, I also took several thighs and cut them up in chunks and threw that in the soup along with the processed raw. I have seen Sully and Chuckie eating chunks with the back teeth from the soup bowl. I didnt have time to spoon feed this morning but I left them out playing for a while so they were hungry. The entire gang ate soup, ground and raw chunks together this moring without me having to get anyone started. Even Mr Buster was eating well at the bowl. Killa looks like he may be starting to fill out a little more and Bubba came back and finished everything off when they were all done.....ha ha ha
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Post by Heather on Oct 2, 2008 22:35:08 GMT -5
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Post by ferretpalooza on Oct 3, 2008 10:33:55 GMT -5
Well Killa put the nicest pile of poo down this morning... lol Whatever has been bugging his stomach must have passed. Max just got up and went to bed in the corner. The rest are major animals this morning.
I would imagine it makes sense that their poos would be getting smaller because they are digesting a lot of what they eat now, eh??? Still have some overly mushy poo but the boxes arent looking as bad. Of course if I see one poo when they are out, I always wait and go inspect. Max has seedy greenish/yellow half diahreah/half mush poos. Poor baby, he wasnt feeling well this morning. I did give him a dose of lax and some pepto with yogart. He also ate soupies and went right back to bed. Everyone else is looking good with the exception of smaller poos but I think I read that is normal with a meat based diet. The soup is rich with processed raw, chunks of raw, and the ground mix with pork, bones, pumpkin, and chicken. So the diet is great I think. Kibble consumption is at an all time low. Someone is nibbling, I dont know to what degree but they are all eating out of the bowl!! Boudreaux's appetite is picking up. I have seen Boudreaux, Sully, Chuckie, Bubba and Max pull chunks (thumbnail size) out of the bowl and eat them with the back teeth. Buster is starting to suck up the ground with soup. Killa will eat some ground but if he gets a chunk in his mouth, his face is hilarious. He kind of lifts his head and doesnt move his mouth and runs off. Dont think he is eating them, but he is looking much better and looking like he is beginning to fill out a bit. Like I said, he put a huge pile of firm good colored poo out this morning which i havent seen from him in a long time.
So, I know you are as excited about the poo update as I am........we ferret people are funny like that!!!!!
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Post by Heather on Oct 3, 2008 22:28:50 GMT -5
I'm so glad that Killa's poops are starting to look normal. I find that there is a wide range of colour and texture once they become raw fed, depending on what they've eaten. The fact that they are also eating kibbles on top of their raw diet may mean that their stools will still be a little loose and sloppy. Kibbles has longer in system digestive time and it may upset their tummies enough to still present you with some lousy poops. Another consideration is that I find that there's not a huge decrease in size of poops but the number of poops (it all works out in the end ) It's good to see that for the most part your guys are all eating their food with enthusiasm and are progressing well. It's encouraging that your seeing added weight on your sicker ferts and hopefully they will start to pick up. I will check in later to see how things are progressing and to see if Max is feeling better. He may be one that is mixing kibble with raw diet, which can upset their stomachs. ciao |
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Post by ferretpalooza on Oct 5, 2008 16:38:49 GMT -5
Its been a busy couple of days. Max started feeling much better after a couple of doses of pepto. He came out playing yesterday morning. I went to a festival so they didnt get out last night. We're still at a holding pattern. It goes back and forth whether they eat all the raw mix or not but everyone is doing well and kibble moves slower each day. I figure Ill wait till the raw starts to consistantly start getting eaten before I remove kibble altogether. Its encouraging to see them all eating the raw, just not sure who still eats when in the cage and I still have days when it is not touched at all and the dogs get it.
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Post by Heather on Oct 5, 2008 19:39:59 GMT -5
Ok, I'm not as concerned as I was when you were using egg shells as your calcium source. Now that you're grinding, it's easier to take your time and wait for the lagers who still aren't comfortable with the whole raw eating thing. I would like to see you progress beyond the soupy stage but I agree with you as well, the kibble should be left in. I'm not sure that you will ever be at the point where your guys will give up the kibbles entirely on their own. I think you will ultimately have to take the kibbles away but I wouldn't do it yet. I would like to see everyone eating consistently. One consideration is when they don't eat in their cage, have they eaten really well when out playing? As you're dealing with ferrets who have "issues", playing the starvation card is not in the picture...at least as far as I'm concerned.
Your guys are doing well. I will check in with you tomorrow. Talk at you later.
ciao
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Post by ferretpalooza on Oct 6, 2008 15:15:48 GMT -5
They eat well off and on while out. Boudreuax still likes his own bowl but a lot of times he wants to be fickle and someone else will come eat all his food. He will come to the big bowl if there are only a few ferrets but he doesnt like the crowd....ha ha The only ones Ive caught in the cage eating are Sully, Max and Bubba. They may all be eating the mix, those are the only ones I have spotted, so the not knowing doesnt help. Buster is eating the soup and ground better each day, although, he sometimes needs a start. Killa also sometimes needs a start and doesnt stay for long, but he is a small guy. I think he was probably the runt of the litter. He is starting to look better but IMO he is on the line. Two days of no food, he could be a bone again. One thing I noticed, I put a smaller bowl of the grind/soup mix in the pen when I went to the fair the other day and did not make it back till 2 AM. (unplanned events rescuing kids....LOL). So they had long been out of the soup/grind mix. Well, usually they would kill the kibble bowl. There wasnt much less kibble than 12 hours before, instead, I have been keeping a bowl of jerky (chicken and lamb) in there. I noticed Buster and Chuckie both love the dried lamb squares.Ive seen Bubba with a slice of chicken. Not sure who else is eating it, but when I finally got home Sunday morning the entire jerky bowl had been wiped out instead of the kibble. This is a good thing in a way, but I dont want any of them to start on a strictly jerky diet. I would still like to see them all partake of the grind since that is where the calcium and taurine and other vitamins come from, but I was amazed they picked the jerky over the kibble that day. Im thinking the end of kibble may not be too far off. I am putting smaller amounts in the pen during the day with more ground and just a little soup on top. I want them to start being willing to eat something with a little more substance instead of it always being soup. Noone touched any of the leg bones I left in the feeding dens but I did find remnants of jerky so the idea is in their head what they are for.
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Post by Heather on Oct 7, 2008 0:41:28 GMT -5
Kibbles have definitely become second munchies for your guys. It sounds to me as though it really is supplemental these days. It would be interesting to see who's actually eating it. I, too would like to see them eating more of the ground as it is the main part of their meal supplement at the moment. Jerky is good for teeth cleaning, so if you can get them to eat only as far as the ground mix you will still be getting teeth cleaning by the jerky. Not totally bad I'm glad to hear that Killa is starting to mend and that he's picking up. It would be nice to know who is actually eating what but that's always the problem when feeding mulitiple fuzzies. I will check in with you tomorrow and see how all of you are doing. ciao |
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Post by ferretpalooza on Oct 7, 2008 7:51:07 GMT -5
Well I know that all will eat the ground at playtime. Bubba and Killa are usually the first away from the bowl and Boudreaux lives in his own world...ha ha Chuckie and Buster are definitely jerky eaters and I have seen Buster, Bubba, Boudreaux and Killa eating kibble. Now those are the obvious observations. What goes on when I am at work....who knows. Buster stays at the ground bowl more and more and maybe he is starting to replace the kibble with jerky. He is usually the first one at the door when I am cleaning litter boxes to go back in and he runs straight for the jerky bowl now. I may just start putting a small amount of kibble in the morning and if they run out, they will have the night time bowl of soup and jerky. That may up the consumption at night to not have the kibble choice as Im not so afraid of anyone starving because they are all eating ground now.
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Post by Heather on Oct 7, 2008 12:54:08 GMT -5
That might be an idea. I know that once I've seen the guys topping up at the ground meat bowl on their own, I usually lift the kibble bowl during the day. The only time they would get access would be at night....it's basically the same thing that you're doing only different times of day Once I'm comfortable that they're eating enough to actually feed themselves during the day and they're starting to put on weight that's when I usually start feeding whole meats and bones at night (what everyone else gets, my guys have separate homes as some only get along if there's enough space that they can get away from each other's company). I just put in the meaty bones at night and then they will chew on them if they're hungry. I'm not as concerned that they won't eat during that time period (they can survive for the 4 to 6 hrs that I sleep without food if they chose not to eat the rmbs) and it seems to stimulate them to try the bones (similar to your idea with the jerky) I will check on you later. Looks like you have a good handle on your guys. Keep up the good work ciao |
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