A business of 4 goes raw

[weeksl08]

I found the leg bone and a few pieces of organ in a cardboard box full of newspaper that they play in... I haven't looked everywhere so who knows where food will pop up!

[Forum Administrator]

To get them to try the bone use something heavy to split it lengthwise (thus exposing the yummy marrow inside). Don't smash into pieces as this will up the risk of your ferret choking. Try and keep it in two big pieces. Your ferrets will chew them into managable bits and HOPEFULLY eat them

[weeksl08]

I will try that next time I make soup~ At this rate, I will need to make some before the week is over! They are eating about 6-9 ounces of soup a day! I'm glad they like it though!

[Heather]

Did they strip the meat off of the leg bone? My guys have a hard time eating leg bones, they will go back and eat them later but usually I through them out. Try Giuli's idea about cracking them open. Another thing you can try is chicken necks, and wings...not the tips. My guys don't like the tips, not enough reward (meat) for the work
If you're looking for stashed food check out the litter box. Little poops seem to like to hide their dinner in the litter box. Don't take it personally, it's not what you're serving them. If you read up on the ferret types...they soil their food so that no one else will eat it. Consider it a complement to what you're feeding
It's great that they're enjoying their soupys
I will talk at you tomorrow.
ciao

[weeksl08]

I think I need to take a step back and make the peices slightly smaller than they are now. I don't think they are eating any of them. The food keeps going super fast, so i thought they were just eating a lot, but instead they are stashing alot. Right now the soup is more than 50% chunks, so I think I will decrease that percentage as well.

[Heather]

Hmmm. I had the really nice letter all typed out to you and the whole thing crashed and now I have to start over again. I hope that I can get the gist of the information that I was trying to get to you.
First, agreed. Now, I know with my guys they will eat their fill on soupy and leave the whole meat. The only time this is different is if there's hearts and gibblets on the menu. That's food worth fighting for So I'm going to put out a couple of suggestions. You don't have to take any of them as the way you are proceeding will indeed get you to your ultimate goal. I break my guys meals up. During the day when everyone is out playing and romping they get to steal the cats food (which is the egg soupy but thickened with meat to the consistency of what you would make hamburgers with) That way you are also not using as much egg as you would with a soupy mix. When I'm first introducing this to my newbies, I make it similar to you, very liquid with ground meat. I then do what ever needs to be done to get them started. As time progresses I add more and more ground mix to the equation. In the end they're eating a ground mix that has the consistency of a hamburg mixture that you would use to make hamburgers or meatballs. This is my cat mix (neither of my cats will eat whole meat, one is 21 yrs old...you don't argue with a cat that age ). Then, I start offering whole meats at night when they're locked up in their family cages. With 14 in house ferrets not all of them get along in 1 room, a whole house but not 1 room. So at night there is no soupy mix or ground mix offered. They get whole meats, mice, quail or rabbits. When I go to work, I have several who because they're the ultimate troublemakers are placed in a safe room (their room) to romp, play and eat their rats. So, though my guys have food offered 24/7 they have certain foods that they get at certain times. Now, I know that certain parties, Loki in particular, isn't fond of whole meats and will only eat this as a last resort. So I make sure that he has access to ground throughout the day and even when he's in the room. At night when they're locked up, there is no ground meats, just whole meats. If he's hungry he will eat this and has done on a number of occasions.
Another thing you might try is making your meats smaller and only dipping them in the soupy mix and offering only these chunks. That way they have to eat the chunked meats. They may just lick the soupy mix off, but it might offer some insentive to try and chew the meat. You could also sit with them, with a small bowl and hand feed smaller pieces to them, making sure that each tries and hopefully eats small amounts.
One of the problems that you are encountering is that because there is no particular method of eating kibble (soupy mix falls in this catagory too) they don't really know how to eat whole meats. There is certain techniques that they must employ, special muscles in their jaws, necks and fronts to eat meat. This all has to be learned. They're not particularly impressed about having to work for their dinner So you can go back so that it's small enough for them to handle.
Or, you can go out and get some chicken necks and see if they would eat them. I would only offer 1 at a time. This will teach them to eat whole meat by using all of their bodies. You can even dip them in the soupy mix to entice them. You mentioned that you chopped up gibblets in their mix...right? Try offering them a whole gibblet. See what they do with it. Even my new boy that I got on the weekend (he's not fond of whole meat yet...he'll lick it but he hasn't got the hang of chewing it yet chows into gibblets. He's rather young, I'm thinking under 3 from looking at his teeth. I haven't had a close look.
Just a few ideas. I know I had others but I can't think of them off the cuff right now. I will talk at you later.
Good luck...hang in there.
ciao

[weeksl08]

I'm a bit bleary eyed right now, and I apologize but I will have to ready this later... Mayhem passed today... I posted what happened in the health section...

Dook Dok my diva fert!

[weeksl08]

ok, ive calmed enough to read/ type... have a ferret in one hand so my typing will not be the best tonight...

I am a bit torn up still even though I know what happened. Liberty found May and tried to wake her up. I can tell be cause May was found sleeping in a hanging cube that Constantine is too fat to climb up to and May had a huge wet spot on her neck where someone had licked her. Constantine may not have gotten the chance to say goodbye and may not realize May is gone. I know in time he will realize she is not here, and may grieve then. Liberty did not bond with May at all but is slightly sad. I know she also feels my emotion and is sad for me.

While I was at the vet getting the necropsy, the vet looked at the other two to make sure they were ok. He said that he agreed with me that Libby was somewhere between 3-5 by the looks of her teeth.

I am going to finish this soup off and then go with a smaller chunk approach with much less egg. They would eat it without the egg but I don't eat much egg and hate to waste it when I use the shell for them. I will also try some chunks dipped in egg or soup when this batch is gone. I just spent $450 at the vet today so things are going to be really tight around here for quite a while. This means I will only be shopping when we are out of somethin..

[Heather]

I've just read and posted. I felt sick when I saw the initial post in the health section and my d**** computer wouldn't let me on site....I couldn't read it and I knew...I just knew. Again, I'm so sorry. Loosing these guys is like having a piece of your heart ripped out. I do know, I've buried 6 in as many years...so I do know and I truly understand the financial outlay. Having ferrets doesn't come cheap financially or emotionally.
Take your time and yes ferrets do say goodbye. I always have allowed time for my guys to say good bye...I've found I get less grief (and ferrets do grieve and grieve hard).
Don't worry yourself, nor stress. Maintain your guys diet at the moment until you feel you can move ahead with this again. Take your time. I will be here. Good luck, take care.
ciao

[Forum Administrator]

I am shocked and saddened to hear about May's passing! I will be going to the health section to read what happened. I am so very sorry.

[weeksl08]

Again, i can't thank you guys enough for allof your help, love, and support. She is the first that I've lost, adn the first pet I've lost period since I was 11 or 12.Cracked doored keep mysteriously opening and I kept hearing little feet last night so I know she is trying to tel me not to be upset.

Last night the boyfriend passed out on the futon in the living room and I couldn't bear to sleep alone. I woke Libby and constantine up and had them sleep with me. Constantine (who never sleeps with me) curled up under the covers next to my leg, and Libby curled up in my armpit. I sobbed all night, and every few minutes Liberty would scoot closer as if to say "Mom, it's ok. You still have me." She eventually got too hot and got down, and Constantine moved into her spot in my armpit and didn't leave my side until I got up for work. When I got up, I found Libby and gave her a big hug and a kiss. I did the same to both of them before I left for work. Never again will I leave the house without telling them I love you.

The others aren't eating as much so i know they know. They eat as much yesterday as a whole as hey normally would in one sitting. I hope when I get home more food is eaten. They both ate a small bite or two before I left the house, so I know they are both eating, just not very much.

While we were at the vet, he said that Liberty had lost about 3 ounces since we had been there last. He also finally took the time to look at her teeth and agreed that she may be 3-5 years. The peopel who sold her to me told me she was 6 months, but I would have taken her home if she was 6 years. I will be keeping a close eye on her. Constantine on the other hand gained .9 ounces. I was thinking that (hopefully) Libby's weight loss was due to being more active since I let them free roam.

[Heather]

Activity may indeed be part of the cause for the weight loss, change of diet will also cause some weight loss as well. You may indeed see some decline in eating habit over the next couple of days as your business does indeed sort itself out. Your grief will also affect your furbabies. I know money is tight but I would go out and get some rescue remedy (it's not real expensive). Put about 5 to 10 drops in their water (depending on how big their water container is) and give yourself 5 drops straight up. You could use it It's hard loosing a ferret. I find it harder than losing any other pet that I've had. Keep a close eye on how much Liberty is eating. We don't want her to loose any more weight. Sounds to me like Constantine is doing well. Keep a close eye on your guys for the next couple of days. Make sure they eat, if they're going to go on a food strike now will be the time.
People lie a lot when it comes to the ages of ferrets. I was told that my Aremis was only a year. When I checked his teeth he was 6 yrs. Most people are aware that ferrets have a lot of health issues and sometimes will lie to cover a problem with a ferret. There's really nothing you can do when you rescue a furbaby...we just take what is handed and love them anyway
Keep your chin up, it hurts like h*** but it's all part of the battle. You did fantastic by your Mayhem, you're doing great by your business. Keep a close eye on them. Give them an extra hug from me. Take care.
ciao

[weeksl08]

Liberty ate everytime she was awake, jst not very much. She has been really stand-offish today. She's been very jumps as well. I don't kow if she is scared we're going to take her back to the vet who shoved a thermometer up her butt, or if she's freaked out because May is gone. She's been very mopey and hasn't wanted to play either. I didn't think that they had bonded but I guess I was wrong. Constantine however doesnt realize she is gone. He was much closer to her so I am afraid of how he is going to react when he realizes it. He has eaten a few times today but not very much and not as often as Liberty. The two of them have eaten 1/3 of what the three of them would normally eat in one day.

[Heather]

You may want to do some personal attention for your 2 furbabies. Sit down, do some major snuggle time and hand feed them a bit (use a spoon and let them lick it off the spoon, my guys love this extra special time that is all theirs). Even if it's just one meal. That will also mean that your guys are eating 1 good raw meal (soupy) a day. I've actually had fuzzies who have put on weight, just doing that one special meal. It will also help everyone start to feel alright again.
I will check in with you later.
ciao

[weeksl08]

I'm somewhere between stage 2 nd three of grief. Stage two is pain and guilt and stage three is anger. I was willing to pass off my vet being mean to me when I took Mayhem in for her necropsy as me being over senesitive but not after what I found out today. So, when I got home and foudn out what had happened, I called the vet for an estimate on the necropsy... the receptionist told me "anywhere from $50-105, then $50 for any biopsies." I left the place with a $400 bill, plus $50 to get her cremated. That's not what I'm so angry about. Then, he told me he had to keep looking at his text books to do the exam, that's still not why I am angry. When he brought my baby out to me in a shoe box, he decided that was a good time to tell me what a horrible ferrent I was for feeding raw. He told me my other two were going to end up getting sick or worse blah blah blah. Second time he's said something similar to me, but I DID NOT need to hear that while my baby girl was zipped up in a cadaver bag, in a shoe box on the table in front of me! Well, I went to my local pet store to pick up some stuff for the hedgie and I was telling the owner what happened. He told me to never go back to him, that he killed the owner's cat! Dr. Steit gave the poor thing the wrong meds and it died within 48 hours. The owner said that he gave it the wrong leukemia meds which killed the poor baby, then charged him through the roof for a necropsy,exam, ect too! I AM finding a new vet.

So i've spent more time with the fuzzies than they would like at this point. I grab them everytime i see them curling up to go to sleep and try to get a few minutes of cuddle time in. I sit by their side and watch them sleep.. tonight, or when they wake up, I'm going to hand feed a few bites of food to each, then try Guili's suggestion of "grooming them" with a slightly damp warm wash cloth. Libby is still not quite herself. She did however play a little last night and for a minute or two this morning. That's a good sign, but she's still visibly depressed. I think Constantine is starting to wonder where she is. He walks around the whole house, then plops down. He's seemed a little down today. So far today they have eaten a total of one big spoon full of soup. When I hand feed them, I'm going to cut the chunks of meat/organ up smaller for them. I've also posted a few "wanted" ads on a few online classified sites hoping that there is a "free to good home" or ferret with a small rehoming fee. While we were at the vet, ROb and I said "no more for a while" but I think it would do the other two some good, plus me too...