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Post by Heather on Aug 21, 2008 23:24:23 GMT -5
I would be finding myself a new vet. Don't be angry with yourself. I think we've all been there with the vets. I lost my little Pandora to a vet who claimed to be a ferret vet. She also gets referals from all the vets in the area, but she was no ferret vet. She killed my little girl. Little Pandy went in for adrenal surgery....she said she needed it. There was nothing wrong with her adrenal glands. So they did an exploratory (that's ok) and found nothing. Nothing. They just sent her home. She hadn't come out of anesthetic. The next morning she still couldn't move or anything. I phoned them and said that she was dehydrating...that she was really sick. I talked to the vet...she said I was exagerating and that I was to proceed pushing fluids and that she would see me in the morning that she was too busy to deal with me right then and hung up. Little Pandy was dead 2 hrs later, while I was trying to phone around and get another vet. Make sure you try and find a vet soon, you don't want to be trying to find one in an emergency.
You're right about your guys needing a little extra TLC, so do you. Make sure you make time for yourself...time to grieve. It's hard but you have to for you and your furbabies. I found burying myself in handling the babies always helped. It helps them too. Watch your furbabies closely, as they're newly switched they could very well backtrack and stop eating. Hand feeding is a good way for you to work through your loss and a great way of keeping track of what amounts your guys are eating. Cutting really small manageable pieces might be a good way to get your guys eating again. Be prepared that this may take a couple of weeks.
Good luck, look after yourself and your furbabies. I will check in with you tomorrow.
ciao
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Post by weeksl08 on Aug 22, 2008 17:07:19 GMT -5
OMG Heather, you will not believe this...n the midst of everything that has happened, I decided that I wanted to get another baby... WV is not the #1 state to find a ferret in the classified ads, and a free one is a miracle.... I put this ad online today:
I lost my little girl Mayhem on 8/19/08 due to liver failure and our entire family is a mess. My other two ferrets Liberty and Constantine are a total mess as well. We had planned on getting another ferret in a few months, but if one comes our way we will snatch it/them up in a heart beat! We are looking for a ferret(s) that are free to good home or have a very minimal rehoming fee. We had to pay $450 for Mayhem's autopsy, examination, biopsies, cremation, and the examination of my other two ferrets to make sure they were not ill (before the autopsy results were back as a precaution.) As a result, we do not have the available funds to pay a whole lot for some new play mates. We do however have a reserve in case of emergency vet visits, we just do not want to deplete that, just in case. I would be willing to drive up to 100 miles for a free to good home ferret(s). Thanks for your time!
To my shock, as I was getting some pictures of the kids off of my camera, my mail thingy beeped at me... I check it and this is what was in my inbox:
I have 2 ferrets of my daughters that I would love to find a great home for where they will be vetted and get attention.We just don't have time or money to spend with them. One is female she is white with red tail the other is silver he is male both are supposedly altered and descented. I got them second hand and haven't had them to a vet yet. I got the female someone was giving away and the male as a companion for her. I live in Barboursville Wv and could meet you half way I am about three hours from you. Let me discuss this with my daughter she is 10 and loves them but just doesn't spend time with them properly and they need attention and out to plunder.They are very sweet love to do the ferret shuffle LOL.Gus is suppose to be three and Nippy is 1. As long as you provide a loving home I will give them to you so you can use money on their vet needs if she ok's it just let me know if you are still interested or have found one yet. I could meet you around Wed of this upcoming week that is when I am off again.~Ginger
Thats only 45 minutes from my moms house... and I was planning to go see her next weekend... Rob is sleeping, I feel I should discus this with him first but I feel like it is fate again.... what do you guys think??
PS ((I've wanted a white or champagne ferret FOREVER!))
So I emailed her and said if it was ok with her little girl, and Rob I could be up there next weekend:)
RAW related... the two of them are eating, but not a whole lot. Rob has a theory that since May had gained so much weight, that maybe she was eating way more than the other two. I think it may be a mix of depression, and that May may have been a pig. I'm just glad they are both eating.
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Post by Heather on Aug 22, 2008 19:55:57 GMT -5
Well there you go...ferret math....loose 1 gain 2..... ;)That's how I got started. I presently have 14 roaming my house. Be careful for what you wish  You realise that even if you get these guys they may or may not get along? I just don't want you to be disappointed if they don't, but otherwise go for it girl (i would  The more the merrier. I'm glad to hear that your guys are starting to eat again. It may very well be that May was eating most of the food, but you can't rule out the disruption that her death caused too. I would still keep a very close eye on your guys to make sure they're eating enough. We don't want them to loose any more weight. Good luck with your new ones. I will keep my fingers crossed for your  ciao |
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Post by weeksl08 on Aug 22, 2008 20:11:07 GMT -5
O, believe me, I am watching them like a hawk! Any slight changes, and I go into freak out mode still. I'm watching their intake very carefully. They still are mopey but when they re awake to together they seem to play a little more than they previously have.
It's not a done deal on getting the 2 new babies, but I feel like it's meant to be. May was handed to me by fate and I feel like she hand picked these two for me. I am prepared for ferret war, May did not get along well with the other two at first and they had to be kept separate for quite a while. I feel like the new addtion would help all of us...
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Post by Forum Administrator on Aug 23, 2008 3:22:18 GMT -5
RAW related... the two of them are eating, but not a whole lot. Rob has a theory that since May had gained so much weight, that maybe she was eating way more than the other two. I think it may be a mix of depression, and that May may have been a pig. I'm just glad they are both eating. I would guess it was because that poor baby had cornflakes for the early portion of her life (before you got to her) and she was finally able to eat well and so she was all over it. Can't say that I blame her. God bless you for giving her the best nutrition possible before she passed away! |
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Post by Heather on Aug 23, 2008 22:36:08 GMT -5
There's nothing like the sound of tiny paws to lift the spirits and renew ones feelings that all is well in life. I hope that everything works out for you and your little ones. I will check in tomorrow to see how things are going.
ciao
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Post by weeksl08 on Aug 24, 2008 18:33:41 GMT -5
I'm a little freaked out right now... Mayhem threw up the night before she passed... and Liberty just threw up... I know it's probably not the same thing, but its reallly freaking me out.. I'm just going to keep an eye onher... ROb said it felt like she had something sticky in her fur so he cleaned her off earlier, so I'm hoping she got into some sweets and it just made her sick... Rob and I both felt/squeezed on her tummy and I didn't feel any lumps, and there was no tender spots...
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Post by Heather on Aug 24, 2008 22:48:26 GMT -5
You've made me nervous....watch her carefully.
How is she acting? Did she eat? How's her activity level? How's Liberty acting? What is their food intake like? Is either refusing food? What are their fluid intakes like?
I will check in on you later tonight, let me know how things are going.
ciao
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Post by weeksl08 on Aug 25, 2008 8:26:55 GMT -5
Both ferrets are eating. Very small amounts, but they are eating. There is plenty of saw dust in the litter box so I assume they are both drinking. She was acting like her normal fiesty self. After she got sick, she caught her breath and started chasing me. I think I'm just paranoid after losing one, but it still is scaring me. May was fine until her last breath. I checked on her this morning, no lumps in her belly, no tenderness. She doesn't seem bloated. I didn't get to spend much time with her before I left. ((Today is the first day of classes.) I get out of my last class at 2:15 so i'm going home to check on her before I pick up Mayhem's ashes at the vet.
I haven't made the food yet, but last night Wal-mart was having a really good sale on ground turkey, 3 pounds for like $7 so I got ground turkey then chicken hearts/gizzards, and chicken liver. i'm afraid to mix it all up like soup since youre vomit with mixed proteins.
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Post by Heather on Aug 25, 2008 10:52:27 GMT -5
I don't think you will find it was the mix that made her vomit. Ferrets can also get virus' just like us...flu bugs. I had one little guy who was really under the weather last week. Sleeping most of the time, somebody had vomited in his sleepy cage (he lives with 3 others at night) but he was the only one who was really lethargic. He's back to his usual hyjinx today, but he had me really worried last week. He's now coming up to his fourth birthday and I just lost Porthos in March to juvenile lymphomas...it's hard sometimes. Do you have a small food scale, one with a bowl is sometimes better....it works to mix their food by weight and you can also weigh the fuzzies. I keep a monthly weight chart on my guys and that sometimes catches things before they happen. You always have to take into account seasonal weights but sometimes it gives you a heads up. It also helps when you're first feeding or converting them to raw so that you can keep on top of their weight loss or gain. Sometimes, it feels like you're not feeding enough and then you discover that they little bums have put on weight You will find that on raw ferrets drink less than if they were on kibbles. Kibbles, because of the fact that it takes water out of their bodies to basically rehydrate the kibble, makes them drink more. When they're on raw they require less water because of the water content of the raw meat. That is why when they're ill, they seem to bounce back better than a kibble fed ferret. I'm concerned about you saying they're only eating a little bit of food.....how much is a little. They're not supplementing with kibbles so I'm interested in how much they're eating or that you've done the hug tests and that they're not loosing weight. Just concerned I wouldn't be concerned about the food, I don't think that was your problem...your little one may have had an upset stomach, just like now and again we do. It's when they start vomiting (and I know Mayhem, gave you no warning....I would be as you are, afraid...I know where you're coming from) more than once or twice that you should become concerned. I think too, is that the concern is that these little guys run so close to dehydration (like cats) that when they vomit only once or twice their hydration levels plummit way too low and they can't bounce back. They, like cats will also forget how to eat....sounds stupid but that's one of the biggest problems when you have a sick ferret or cat....they just stop eating. Anyway, I will check back with you later this afternoon to see how things are going. ciao |
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Post by Forum Administrator on Aug 25, 2008 13:26:35 GMT -5
When a ferret is stressed they can have a weakend immune system. Losing Mayhem might have made her more susceptable to bugs. She could just have a tummy bug or the flu or something. Moniter her and keep her eating. Oh and pedialyte (unflavored) should be her new best friend. Atleast for the next day or so. Replace their water with pedialyte to keep Liberty hydrated. I think the poor dear is just stressed, I really don't think it has to do with mixing proteins.
Keep us posted.
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Post by weeksl08 on Aug 25, 2008 16:24:52 GMT -5
I just picked Mayhem's ashes up from the vet. while I was there I got a copy of the pathology report. The report reads as follows:
Biopsy: Microscopic description: Kidney: the renal cortex and medulla show multifocal congested blood vessels and some areas with erythrocytic extravasation or acute blood hemorrhage. Pancreas: The pancreas paenchyma shows congested vessels and acute hemorrhage. Liver: Several sections of the liver are examined. They show mild hepatocellular swelling and hepatocellular vacuolation, vascular congestion, hemorrhage, and areas with hepatocellular coagulation necrosis. Scattered lyphocytes, plasma cells, sinusoidal spaces and associated with the necrotic hepatocytes. No evidence of microorganisms or neoplastic cells are seen.
Microscopic findings:
1.Kidney: vascular congestion
2.Pancreas: Vascular congestion with hemorrhage
3. Liver: hepatopathy characterized by hepatocellular necrosis, hepatocellular degeneration and mild portal inflammation.
COMMENT: The most significant changes are seen in the liver. A toxic cause should be CONSIDERED in the primary differential diagnosis, but an acute bacterial infection is also possible.
Now, the vet starts off by saying "they said that her liver died." DUH! Then went on to say that it was MORE THAN LIKELY that it was the raw meat that did it. BULL SH*T! I read the report myself. It said that her liver was dying and that her other organs weren't in good shape either. If it were because of the raw diet, I'm pretty sure she would have gotten sick and went with wrning, not suddenly out of nowhere. Since he was attacking me while I held her ashes this time, I went right back at him ( I was in more sound mind than when she was in the shoe box.) I said something to the fact of "don't you think this could have something to do with her previous life style? She was in BAD shape when I got her, ill, under weight, and fed cornflakes! Who knows what else they did or didn't do to her!" He said that could be true... BUT he thought it was the raw. What a jerk. I'm not changing their diet. I'm doing whats best for their health. I know this reports states that it is possible for it to have been caused by a bacterial source but it also says NO EVIDENCE OF MICROORGANISMS. He can get off of his high horse and do some research on ferrets, their digestive tracts, and raw diet!
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Post by weeksl08 on Aug 25, 2008 16:54:10 GMT -5
Now that I have my rant out of the way...
Liberty seems to be fine. I picked up 2 bottles of unflavored "rediatric electrolyte solution" ((kroger brand)) and filled their two dog dowls full of water and their water bottle. Is it ok for them to drink this for more than just a few days? Lie a week? Kust to make sure everyone is back to normal health.
Also, I would like to try feeding ((very small) chunks of just gizzards one day and just ground raw another. Is this ok? I'm not sure if Libby with eat the hearts/gizzards if they are in the soup. Should I try it and see, then offer soup as well as the plain chunks?
If they wont eat the plain chunks yet, is it ok to mix the ground turkey with the chicken organs??
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Post by Forum Administrator on Aug 25, 2008 20:26:11 GMT -5
 I'm really sorry that this vet can't even consider that perhaps CORN FLAKES were a bit worse for her then raw meat. Now, if May was fed a diet of cornflakes for a while that can cause SEVERAL issues (obvious): malnutrition, insulinoma, bladder stones AND if suddenly switched to a super high protein diet (like a raw diet) it theoretically *could* stress her internal organs out, BUT I specifically remember pointint this out to you and you saying that you had gradually switched her to kibble and then gradually switched her to raw, so I honestly can't see that being the cause here. Do you know HOW LONG she was fed cornflakes? Now on to your questions: Liberty seems to be fine. I picked up 2 bottles of unflavored "rediatric electrolyte solution" ((kroger brand)) and filled their two dog dowls full of water and their water bottle. Is it ok for them to drink this for more than just a few days? Lie a week? Kust to make sure everyone is back to normal health.Yes, that is fine. Bear in mind that after 72 hours you will need to replace the electrolyte solution (for some reason its not valid after 72 hours) Be sure to put the water in their bowls or bottles and then freeze the rest in ice cube trays (and thaw as needed) to preserve the electrolytes. Also, I would like to try feeding ((very small) chunks of just gizzards one day and just ground raw another. Is this ok? I'm not sure if Libby with eat the hearts/gizzards if they are in the soup. Should I try it and see, then offer soup as well as the plain chunks?Give it a shot. If they refuse make the pieces smaller. Its okay to try and get them moving forward, just be sure to do it slow and steady, so as to reduce stress on them. If they wont eat the plain chunks yet, is it ok to mix the ground turkey with the chicken organs??Yes, absolutely.
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Post by weeksl08 on Aug 25, 2008 22:12:05 GMT -5
Wow.. I just found out another reason she was sent to me... the neighbors dog is in the hospital with distemper... if I wouldn't have gotten May when I did, I may have procrastinated about getting Constantine's shots... I pet that dog every day... i would have lost him before they even realized the dog was sick had May not be sent to me... Thank you Mayhem, you saved a life....
i have no idea how old may actually was or how long she was fed frosted flakes... for all i know she was relly 3 or 4 and fed frosted flakes her whole life... they said she was 2 but who really knows.... i dont know what else they may have fed her, or how often they fed her... if she ever got out, that place was a dump who knows what she could have gotten into....
ive got the kroger brand pedialyte out for everyone and I think 3 days is just fine... i planned on changing the bowls out if they hadn't drank everything before 48 hours hit anyways, I was just curious... plus the water bottle only gets filled once a week, they barely use it...
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