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Post by weeksl08 on Jul 21, 2008 21:39:26 GMT -5
Weeksl08's Info:
1. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names, ages, genders, and do they have any health problems?*We have 3 lovely fuzzies: Liberty (3+??), Constantine (8months and fat!), and Mayhem (2 who was previously fed cornflakes for 2 years., she also has a broken canine tooth.) 2. What are your ferrets currently eating?*Liberty and Constantine have been eating Evo for 6 months and Mayhem has been eating Evo for almost 2 weeks.
3. Please list the current weight for your ferret(s). Do they appear overweight? Underweight? How is there muscle tone?*Liberty- currently losing mass due to aging?? She is just as active as she normally has been but losing weight/mass. she was 2.02lb last time she went to the vet in February. *Constantine- big fatty:) we will find out tomorrow how much he weighs for sure, but my guess is 4-6lbs. *Mayhem- when I rescued her 2 weeks ago I rushed her to the ER and she weighed 1.008lbs. She has gained a few onces since, and we will find out tomorrow how well she is doing for sure  4. What is the condition of your ferret's teeth/gums? (can you get a picture?)*Camera is currently down, but Constantine has pearly whites. * Mayhem has slightly translucent, slightly yellow teeth and her gums are starting to recede. *Liberty has pretty yellow very translucent teeth, good gums. 5. Describe the texture/color of your ferrets coat.*Liberty is a roan with mostly silver, including mitts, and she has some black guard hairs. *Constantine is a siamese/point with a white blaze. Yes, he's dea, ut very loving:) *Mayhem is a chocolate girl with a mask. 6. How often does your ferret go to the bathroom?*Every time they wake up and sometimes in the middle of play time. 7. Does your ferret's feces and/or urine smell?*VERY MUCH SO!
8. Smell your ferret. How strong is their odor?*Liberty has always smelled the worst. She smells slightly like skunk. The other two aren't bad at all. 9. On a scale of 1-10, 1 being completely lethargic and 10 being "through the roof!" what is your ferret's energy level?*Mayhem, 9.5-10.5dpending on her mood! She's my crazy "I'm gona dook for no reason!" ferret:) *Constantine, 4-8 on a regular basis, can be a 9 when he wants to be. *Liberty, 6-8 but she used to be a non-stop 8-10. 10. How excited is your ferret about meal time (when fed kibble)?*It's always out. They are more curious than anything when I put new food out. 11. What other information about your ferret(s) would you like to share? *I'm still a new ferret mom. I got Liberty January 28, 2008. got her out of the "Trading Journal" from an abusive home. She was very scared of new people and a little under weight, but not bad. I was told I would be her 3rd home that week. I was also told she was a he, and that "Trash Can" was only 6 months old. They has her eating 8 in 1 fruit treats as food. We got her Constantine just two weeks later on February 7. I got him from PetLand and he was very sick. He had an upper resp. infection and ECE along with another cold for his first 3 months with us. He was held upright a lot so he coud breath better, and as a result is a spoiled little porker! he is VERY lovable though. We decided we wanted to get another and got Mayhem 2 weeks ago tomorrow. She was fed frosted corn flakes and not played with for 2 years. She also has a broken canine that will need to be removed once she gets up to weight. She has blended right in with my other fuzies and is doing quite well so far. She runs aruond the house dooking at the walls just because she can. If the "big kids" wont play with her, she bites mommy's feet quite hard until she gets attention. |
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Post by Heather on Jul 21, 2008 23:48:48 GMT -5
Hi and congratulations on starting your new adventure How good are your furbabies at trying new foods? I always have had great success with this particular method. It also doesn't lock you into a method. Everyone has to start somewhere. If it doesn't work then we move on to something else. There are ways to soak kibbles and switch them that way too. There are as many ways of switching furbabies as there are ferrets and determined fertslaves. Use ground chicken (actually ground raw meat and bones and offal) but not everyone has that around, so just ground chicken (unflavoured) will do. I mix a small amount with a raw egg (or a small amount of scrambled raw egg) just to create a soupy type mixture. I then set the bowl down and watch what they do. As you're switching more than one ferret, keep a spoon on hand, take a small amount and offer it to a ferret that you're snuggling. Sometimes the result is rather like catching a wiggly snake, most ferrets love raw eggs but, some will spit, sputter gag and generally behave like they've been poisoned. They will take a little longer . Sometimes, you have to dip your finger in the mix and gently place a small amount on their nose, to try and get them to try this new exotic food. Each ferret has their own switch time, some jump right in and never look back, they're the ones that are fun. The others...well...they're meant to try our patience and our resolve. Try this and see where your furbabies go with it. I usually offer this meal multiple times during the day. I can usually tell how difficult the ferret is going to be with the switch within 24 hrs. I don't fast, or starve a ferret. Rescues have quirky health histories and I don't like to test their resolve. As your furbabies start to get the hang of this then you offer larger chunks of meat, mixed into the soupy mix, while gradually thickening the soup mixture. I often offer them chicken necks or wing tips just to chew on. Quite often even ferrets who aren't into raw feeding at the time seem to enjoy munching on these raw munchies. It also teaches them how to handle bone. If you have any questions please feel free to ask. I find that sometimes, a ferret may suffer some runny stools when first starting this, if you have concerns, you can add some pumpkin (not the pie filling) or some slippery elm to the mixture. I'm usually in and out of the forum multiple times during the day. If you need help just ask. |
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Post by weeksl08 on Jul 22, 2008 8:51:39 GMT -5
This morning I just drizzled the Evo with a little warm water. They were eating it before I left, so I think I may add a little more water when I get home. I put about half a scoop (the scoop is 1/4 cup) of kibble and a sprinkle of water in 3 very small (condiment sized) Tupperware containers. I put just enough food to cover the bottoms so I could see if and how much they were eating. I get hoe about 12:30 so if they've eaten it all they will get more water in the mix. This evening we are going to get some ground chicken to have on hand for when they become more accepting. These little guys are PICKY and will not eat bits of raw meat that I've given them, raw egg, cooked egg, or soupie. I know this will be a long process, but it's worth it.
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Post by Heather on Jul 22, 2008 11:46:57 GMT -5
That's great, some require the slow and steady type pace. If they're eating the moistened kibbles you're off to a good start. I'll check in with you later this afternoon to see how things are going. Once they're eating the moistened stuff then you can start adding little bits of ground, not very much, just enough to add a different smell. We'll up it slowly but surely. Good luck  ciao |
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Post by weeksl08 on Jul 22, 2008 18:01:22 GMT -5
OK, so today was a little hectic, so I'm going to try again tomorrow. Today they slept while I was gone from 9:39-12:30 so there were only a few bites missing. Then when I got home at 12:30 everyone came out to play. I was hoping they would be tired out and behave at the vet. Wrong. They were squirmy as usual. We left for the vet at 1:30 for our 2pm appointment. Mayhem weighs ***1 pound, 6 ounces!!!!!*** I was soooo excited to see she had gained!!! 5.2 ounces in 2 weeks is a great accomplishment! The vet was glad that she looked like a ferret this time! He even gave her both vaccinations Constantine weighed in at 2 pounds 5 ounces but he feels like a 6 pound horse to me! He got his vaccinations too. He offered to weigh Liberty to see where she was and she weighed 1 pound 9 ounces, a 3 ounce decrease, but a good one I think. Last time she was weighed was when I first got her and she was being fed fruit treats as food. She lost fat and got more lean. The vet gave us some revolution to get rid of the fleas Mayhem brought with her, but I hate chemicals and am slightly afraid to use it on them. I will do that tomorrow or Thursday when I have more time to watch them. The vet seemed slightly more knowledgeable of ferrets this time, but he also expected us this time and it wasn't 8pm either. He did upset me when he told me raw was the "most dangerous thing I could do for them or myself."They went to sleep as soon as I got them home at 4 and haven't moved since. All day the three of them have eaten a total of maybe a 1/10 of a cup. I know when they wake up later they will be hungry so I don't know if I should try a soggier kibble? |
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Post by Forum Administrator on Jul 22, 2008 18:29:23 GMT -5
Raw is the most dangerous thing you can do for them or yourself?"   Oh! Im sorry, I have to stop laughing, you see He MUST be right. I mean like Josiesmom says: "I really do fail to see how cooked, processed animal by-products, mixed into a goo of grains, starches and plants then stirred with chemical additives, synthesized vitamins and processed minerals and baked into cute shapes constitutes "complete and balanced" appropriate nutrition [for my obligate carnivore]." That is WAY better then fresh raw foods and things that a ferret is NATURALLY designed to eat. TOTALLY But seriously though, it makes me sad that (some) vets have this mentality. That raw foods and whole prey are bad! I really do hope to set up a program that helps to educate vets on the FACTS about raw diets. Hopefully you'll be able to teach your vet a thing or two. Next time you go back you'll be more knowledgable on natural diets. So you can start a discussion with your vet that will (hopefully) open their eyes and atleast cause them to acknowledge raw as a viable feeding option (even if they dont think its the best option). Im happy to hear that Mayhem is doing well I cant wait to see how the kids do on raw! As for the pesticide, I really dont use that on my animals. The only time I'll recommend it is (like with you) where you have an EXISTING flea problem. Holistic Ferret doesnt recommend flea/tick products for PREVENTION (as for heartworm prevention...well we dont have a set stance on that. Its up to the owner to decide). A good diet (combined with natural flea/tick preventatives....1tbsp of apple cider vinegar per 16 oz of drinking water ) is all you need for PREVENTION of fleas and ticks. So once the fleas go away (and you are SURE they are gone) then you can take your babies off the flea/tick preventative and go a more natural route (if this is what you want ) |
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Post by weeksl08 on Jul 22, 2008 19:51:49 GMT -5
I only planned to give them this one month dose. I reallly hate doing it but the bath and the spray for the bedding are not doing the trick. I did no know that about apple cider, we will do that!! The vet was a little over bearing so I did not argue with him because he seems pretty set that my babies are going to get salmonella, die, infect me, and then I'll die too. But, whatever! mY BABIES ARE STILL SWITCHING! We picked up some ground beef today, so I'm hoping to have them on squishy kibble by afternoon/evening and add some meat by night/ the next morning. I will be updating:) Also, I just got some batteries so tomorrow when they are more lively I'm goig to take some new pictures to show May's progress and just how cute all 3 are |
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Post by Forum Administrator on Jul 22, 2008 19:56:26 GMT -5
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Post by Forum Administrator on Jul 22, 2008 20:06:39 GMT -5
For what its worth I HAVE had salmonella (funny enough this was BEFORE I started to feed my ferrets a raw diet ) One day of bloody diarea, and a ton of pedialyte later and I was fine (yeah, nasty. Probably TMI but oh well!) I certainly felt like crap, but I didn't die Many people mistakenly think that salmonella is DEADLY. It can be in certain people (infants, pregnant woman, and those with compromised immune systems) but in a healthy person it usually only causes abdonimal discomfort: "Most people experience diarrhea, abdominal cramps, and fever within 8 to 72 hours after the contaminated food was eaten. Additional symptoms may be chills, headache, nausea, and vomiting. Symptoms usually disappear within 4 to 7 days. Many people with salmonellosis recover without treatment and may never see a doctor. However, Salmonella infections can be life-threatening especially for infants and young children, pregnant women and their unborn babies, and older adults, who are at a higher risk for foodborne illness, as are people with weakened immune systems (such as those with HIV/AIDS, cancer, diabetes, kidney disease, and transplant patients)." *From: www.fsis.usda.gov/FactSheets/Salmonella_Questions_&_Answers/index.aspWhen people get salmonesis (salmonella is the bacteria that causes this) the biggest risk is dehydration. Pedialyte and plenty of fluids prevent dehydration and thus the person recovers. Now you want to be careful when handling raw meat because let me tell you salmonellosis is NOT fun but even if you WERE to get it you a.) most likely wouldnt die from it b.) most likely wouldnt even need to see a doctor, it would just pass on its own. When vets try to scare people away from raw diets saying "you'll get salmonella and die" I seriously wonder if they even know what salmonella IS and if they know the symptoms. 1. You dont "get salmonella" you get "salmonellosis" 2. As mentione salmonellosis is rarely deadly in a healthy individual 3. It rarely requires medical treatment in a healthy individual 4. It is the MOST COMMONLY reported food bourne illness. You can get it not just from raw meat but from handling (certain) reptiles, veggies (tomatos have been in the news most recently for this), and other sources. I wish vets and people wouldnt make blind statements about something they know so little about. Its okay for them to not know, but its NOT ok for them to not know and then push their faulty beliefs onto their clients |
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Post by Heather on Jul 22, 2008 20:36:06 GMT -5
How typical The major concern that I've heard from vets is that they're also afraid that you will do the raw thing wrong. We'll make sure that doesn't happen . It's far easier to scare you to death  , than to try and educate you on how to do it right. That being said, most vets have no idea how to feed anything other than kibbles or their prescription brands. Nutritional education given to vets is very limited, only a few hours and the instruction is given by Hills. So you have an idea as to where that's going to go. Ok, your little ones have had a busy day. They're going to be very tired, and they may still be rather lethargic tomorrow. I find that my guys have a tendency to be much more subdued after visits. Another, thing is that they may not be feeling very well after getting their shots. A word of warning in regards to vaccines, please keep in mind that a ferret should be healthy and free of infections to recieve a vaccine. It's actually written on the little folder that comes with the vaccines. I'm not going to preach on this one. This is a personal choice (to vaccinate or not). As far as the chemicals for fleas. Like Giuli said I don't advocate that either unless you have a problem. You do. I too, found myself dealing with a flea infestation after rescuing a pair of poor fuzzies. For the application, (this takes time but in my opinion it's worth it) Make sure you keep your furbabies separated for half an hour to an hour. This allows the chemical to dry and will not be ingested if your babies start playing with each other (it will but at least not as badly  . I have a minor question, again this is up to you. How bad is your fleas....can you wait for just a little while.... a week maybe. Allow the vaccine chemicals to work their way out of their systems for a bit. Vaccines and other chemicals are just very difficult on their immune systems. If you cannot wait that is fine. Information is a weapon that you can use to your advantage You can also use it to plan your next move. Let's get to the feeding switch. As you have furbabies that have weight problems, let's take a step back to take a step forward. Let's give them bit of a treat and feed kibble without water for a few hours. I know, then they're not going to be hungry when you go to offer the moist but they've been through a lot in the last couple of hours. Ferrets sleep when stressed, it's like they're shutting out the world. Let's give them a bonus for being so good You said you weren't in a hurry, nor am I I've switched many furbabies, each has their own timetable but I do know that the switch is stressful for them. So let's take out one stressor, temporarily You can still stick to your timetable, but for a few hours in the morning, let them have their own way I will be looking forward to seeing some photos See you tomorrow ciao |
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Post by weeksl08 on Jul 22, 2008 21:49:24 GMT -5
A few hours ago Mayhem got up and ate a whole 1/8 cup of moist kibble and went to another and ate a few more bites. The other two have been up and down (we had guest and they are of course curious.) They went back down after a few minutes of play and haven't moves since. I will give them dry in the morning since they were so good:) I will wait a few days-a week for the revolution to let the other stuff get out of their systems. They all have reallllly bad bites that are scabbing so I know they do need treatment.
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Post by Heather on Jul 22, 2008 23:33:43 GMT -5
Good stuff I agree, if your babies have scabs left on them by the fleas you most definitely need to treat them for that. As much as I hate chemicals, everything has it's place. You may have to treat for 2 sessions. Check carefully, as the month ends, use a flea comb and double check. If you feel they need to be treated again do so. Ferrets don't do well with fleas. I'm glad that Mayhem is eating well. My Mayhem would never have let his tummy rumble By the way I'm Heather. I run a small private rescue/sanctuary. All ferrets coming through the door are immediately switched over to a natural, raw diet. That means any one ferret in the house may have available, ground raw, whole meat (frankenprey) and whole prey. I've been feeding raw to my furbabies for over 10 yrs. All 13 of my present furbabies are free roaming, and fed on demand. All have access to an outdoor play area and are treated homeopathically, holistically as possible. I will use allopathic medicine when the needs arise. I'm a reiki practioner and use this method to help all my furbabies deal with everyday stressors. My youngest fuzzbutt is Thor, who is about 2 and my oldest is Babushka who was just turned into me 2 months ago at 9 yrs. I will check in with you tomorrow to get an update on how your furbabies are doing. Goodnight and good luck ciao |
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Post by weeksl08 on Jul 23, 2008 12:07:04 GMT -5
SO today, as usual Liberty greeted me in the morning when I was getting ready. Constantine is deaf and always sleeps through this ritual. Mayhem must have been knocked out because she usually is awaken by Liberty running around the pen. I gave them dry kibble this morning to ease the stress after yesterdays' adventure. Libby snuck a few pieces and ran under the cage to eat them. She has been doing this more often so I'm thinking of putting a towel/blanket over the superpet cage to feed them once they have switched to raw. Mayhem finally got up about 30 minutes after I put the food out and ate a few bites. When I got in at noon I woke them all up to play (Libby was already up) and May ran a few laps around the living room and went bak to the cage for a bite, then nap. Constantine ventured a few feed from the cage then went back for a drink, then back to sleep. I played with Libby for a while then put her back. She did the sneek and eat thing a few times then played in the dig box until she got tired enough to nap. I have not see Constantine eat yet today, but that does not mean that he hasn't. May ate quite a few bites, and Libby has snuck a few. I don't remember Libby being this lethargic after her vet visit in February, but it was just her and her visit was over much faster. I hope to see my boy eating (at least eating more) by this evening. Mayhem's appetite has not changed! When they wake up on their own later I'm going to take pics, and try to get pis of their teeth as well. Should I switch to moist kibble again tonight, or should I wait until tomorrow?
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Post by weeksl08 on Jul 23, 2008 12:17:27 GMT -5
Thanks for the info on the real "salmonella poisoning" Guili!! I wasn't worried but it is good to know that we aren't all going to die and spend forever together so soon! lol! I bet the vet is like the guy at the pet store who thinks Marshall Kibble is God, and nothing else iis good enough, no matter how much more protein it has. He will just be shocked when he sees how well they are all doing n February when I bring in Libby for her shots and get the others weighed!
I do choose to vaccinate for both their protection and mine. We are college students and we are both in a service fraternity and my bf is an an "anti-frat"-frat, so we have guest over (5-10) a few times a week. I don't think any of our brothers would, but I don't want to take the chance of one of their guest flipping out because one of the kids bit/scratched them. The rabies vac safe guards that a little. We don't normally let them out when "strangers" are over but sometimes they pick them up anyways. Also, when I visit my mom, or when she visits me the kids are exposed to my 117lb golden retriever Chance. While he is vaccinated against distemper, the dogs he hangs out with i the neighborhood may not be. Since distemper is air born I don't want to take the chance of Chance unknowingly infecting them. If we didn't have as many people over, and if they didn't play with my (huge) "puppy", I probably wouldn't vaccinate them, just would get them yearly exams. I try my best to use a little chemicals around them as possible. I even clean the cage with baking soda and vinegar.
OO-Question! I've got some unscented, hypoallergenic baby wipes, are those safe to wipe them down with. I saw that some people in the ferret.com forum used them but I wanted to be sure before I used them on them. If they aren't they are still great for poopy clean up!
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Post by Heather on Jul 23, 2008 12:50:32 GMT -5
What are you wiping down with the wipes, the ferrets or their eating area? I don't wipe my guys down. Once you're fellows are on a natural diet smell isn't really an issue. If you're afraid for yourself or friends again, this shouldn't be an issue. Do you or anyone who will be handling the ferrets have a compromised immune system. If so then you can wipe your furbabies with a dampcloth. If you're wiping down their area, the vinegar and water would be enough but you can follow the area with peroxide and wipe. I don't usually bother with taking it to that extreme. You're furbabies may still be a little wiped from their adventure yesterday Are you going to start the moist food again this afternoon or evening? I personally would offer Mayhem some moist again. It looks like she's going to delve into this with both paws. I've had a few like her, they're a dream to switch. If you have a couple of the others who are showing good appetite I would see if they're ready for the adventure of switching to the moist mix. If you're other guys are not eating anything yet I would wait until tomorrow to start up again. I would like to see them eating something before trying to convince them to eat something strange. Keep an eye on Constantine, he may be feeling the effects of the distemper shot. Question, was this a double combination for the shots? Rabies and distemper or only distemper? You have now vaccinated for distemper, you really shouldn't have to vaccinate again for this disease for the lifetime of your ferret. If you are concerned, try for titers. If your ferret has not created an immunity after the first shot, it never will and you will only compromise their immunity. Rabies is a necessary evil if you're going to do the shot thing. It's required by law in most places. Check your local bilaw as all vaccines given are a 3 yrs vaccine and you may not have to give again for another 3 yrs. The law will dictate if you have to immunize your ferret annually. As they've proven that some cancers are caused at the innoculation site, they've started to back off on the annual vaccination thing, but some places aren't exactly with the times. I will check up with you again before I go to work and then later this evening. Talk with you later Good luck ;D   ciao |
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