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Post by josiesmom on Aug 3, 2008 9:36:08 GMT -5
Another possibility, especially on the knee like that, is that it is a deeply embedded splinter of some kind. Personally I'd be toting her off to the vet's for more diagnosis.
Cheers, Kim
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 3, 2008 15:20:52 GMT -5
This morning it looks the same as yesterday night. Still a big chunk of grey matter missing, but it doesn't look like anything else was scratched or licked off. I wish I could clean it up more, but now that she knows I've taken interest in that spot, she won't sit still for it! Oh well, more Bacitrain and thats all I can do until tomorrow.
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 3, 2008 20:30:05 GMT -5
Kiwi has been sleeping for the past 4 hours, and before that I played with her and most of the grey was still there. However now it is a dark red, like blood right at the surface. Its obvious to me she has been scratching or biting at it. Perhaps Apple got to it?
Either way, I will for sure be heading to the vet tomorrow to figure this out. I put more Bacitrain on it after I tried to clean it with peroxide, but I was too scared of really hurting her and causing her to panic. So I stuck with just applying the Bacitrain.
Should I restrict her from playing?? Its not like I can wrap her knee up. Perhaps she is scratching it on something? I'm checking for sharp stuff and not finding much. What kinds of stuff would really scrape up her knee? She walks very arched, her knees only rub when she crawls through tunnels. I do have a dryer hose that she plays in. I checked it Friday and felt nothing rough. What am I missing??
But it looks large now, like taking over her knee!! Could this be getting larger? Are there any skin cancers that grow within days?? I don't think thats possible but this all started on Thursday! What else should I be doing?? I'm kinda freaked out by what she could have. No pics this time.
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Post by mustelidmusk on Aug 4, 2008 0:46:10 GMT -5
There is a very good chance that she's liking and picking at it herself, which is why it's getting larger. Here's a picture of some nasty-looking basal cell carcinomas (sebaceous epithelioma), which are almost always harmless other than infection risk, etc. www.afip.org/consultation/vetpath/ferrets/Sebep/sebep.htmlSee how the "scrubbed" lesion looks super red? Well, if this is bugging Kiwi, she may have "scrubbed" it herself, which is why it's red. These pictures are examples of why I remove things when they're small. Most skin tumors in ferrets are benign even though they can look horrible. It's also possible that this lesion may not be a skin tumor, and it could have a different origin. It's good that yoou're taking her in to the vet since we can only guess at what this might be. -jennifer
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 4, 2008 7:05:49 GMT -5
Here's a picture of some nasty-looking basal cell carcinomas (sebaceous epithelioma), which are almost always harmless other than infection risk, etc. www.afip.org/consultation/vetpath/ferrets/Sebep/sebep.htmlMost skin tumors in ferrets are benign even though they can look horrible. It's also possible that this lesion may not be a skin tumor, and it could have a different origin. Those skin tumors look really really dreadful! It does not look that bad. Its not bubbled up like that. It kinda looks like a deep scrape to her knee. So like if we scraped our knee or elbow, first it would appear white, and then immediately following bubbles of blood would appear either to be wiped away or just at the surface that it looks bad. And then it would scab over, if you remove the scab too soon it is moist and you would think some mucous would be there, ready to ooze out if pushed on. And then the edges of the scab and regular skin are a darker color then the red thats in the middle. Thats my best description. It seems maybe the grey matter was a scab that developed within hours, and then it fell off and underneath is the moist skin thats a dark pink. However nothing is oozing from it. She barely moved while I put the Bacitrain on it because I gave her Ferrevite on her tummy. That stuff has worked wonders on getting her to sit still! I'm calling the vet in an hour to make an appointment tonight for after work. I can't take off anymore, its becoming hard to make up for lost hours.
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 4, 2008 9:47:38 GMT -5
Great, I just called my vet and its a week before I can get an appointment with my ferret vet! Its getting larger and uglier and I just don't know what to do about it anymore. I can't wait a week, its not getting better and if it gets infected I am really in trouble. I love my vet, he's not the smartest about the natural care, but he's very knowledgable and supportive of my choice to feed natural. However, he is the only exotic vet at the office and also the favorite for dogs and cats!
I think I will PM the DVM here and ask her oppinion. I just can't keep taking time off work to just sit in the waiting room for 2 hours! They say to get there before 12pm, but then I am just sitting and waiting for the next 2 hours! I HAVE TO WORK PEOPLE! Maybe tomorrow I could get in early, call and see if anyone is there, maybe have them put my name in? Anything is better than waiting a week, she could be really infected by then! So I left a message for the doctor, hopefully he can call me in between appointments. I tried to explain a bit to the receptionist, but I don't think they know what I'm talking about. And then I also explained I can't keep leaving work like this.
This is so frustrating!!! I'm taking more pics of the "tumor" tonight. Probably around 4pm I will post. Please check and let me know what you think!
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Post by josiesmom on Aug 4, 2008 13:32:37 GMT -5
Are you using Bacitracin? THis could very well be irritating her. There is alcohol in Bacitracin and it definitely burns when applied.
Any chance you can get your hands on some "Silvadene"? Silvadene is an antibiotic ointment used for burn victims.
If not Silvadene, try "Bag Balm" usually you can get a small can of it at Walgreens or Eckerdts. The can is square, green and has a cow on it. It is an antibiotic ointment very much used on cows teats that often get small irritating tumors on them.
Nitrofurozone is another excellent antibiotic ointment that won't irritate the skin.
Your pix show it is getting worse with more handling. I'd put the ointment on it, do NOT scrub it and leave it be. Just keep the ointment on it until you can get her in to the vets.
Hope this helps, Kim
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 4, 2008 14:20:23 GMT -5
I am using Bacitrain, I was told to you that over Neosporin. Sigh! I can find the Bag Balm. Someone else also suggested flaxseed oil helps it to heal.
It is very unlikely I will find anything but the cow stuff, I do not have a lot of "natural" choices in my area.
I've talked to the vet. I am going in at 6:20pm tonight, he says he can see me then. I had left a message earlier stating it looked bad, was getting worse, and I really need something good to put on it.
I will take another pic of it in about an hour. So look for that to be posted. THAT picture will look bad. Last night it was pretty scary looking, my battery was dead so I could take a photo of it. Tonight I will do it when I pick her up to exam it and try to clean it up. I am not scrubbing or rubbing or anything more than softly using a Q tip to wipe back the hair and clean around it, not directly on it. I just don't want it to get stiff and hard and then crack and have blood everywhere!
Its really freaky looking! Now I'm unsure if it is a mast cell tumor, but I don't know for sure what else it could be. I'll be posting the new pic very soon, and you can all weigh in what you think it might be!
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 4, 2008 15:45:27 GMT -5
I checked the ingredients on my Walgreens Bacitracin Ointment, active: bacitracin 500 units per gram, inactive: light mineral oil, white pertolatum. Whats the alcohol? Also, new photos. It looks WAY better than yesterday! The small spot in the photos that is brown, its more in the shape of a cut now then a large spot. In fact it looks like a deep cut about 1/4" long. Its not really red anymore, it makes me think maybe I dreamed that up last night?! LOL I know I didn't, but how weird! She doesn't seem to notice it much, she's playing rough with Apple now. Maybe if she hits it on something she notices, or if she lays on it. Heres the photos: I tried to get more shots, but there wasn't much more to see this time. It still looks like a large spot without fur, but not as pink/red as yesterday. Fur is what is holding the grey matter to her now. I think it would be ok to cut that off, hopefully the vet will. I'm assuming that gets caught on stuff.
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Post by josiesmom on Aug 4, 2008 16:20:30 GMT -5
Sorry- I see you are using an ointment- I thought you were using a spray which again is my brain on the fritz- the spray would have been "Bactine"- you'll be o.k with that ointment.
actually the second batch of pix doesn't look that bad. I'm surprised that the ointment hasn't softened the "scab" holding the fur in clumps. So that you can gently remove the clumps.
Hope you can get your appointment situated!
Cheers, Kim
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 4, 2008 16:24:55 GMT -5
Sorry- I see you are using an ointment- I thought you were using a spray which again is my brain on the fritz- the spray would have been "Bactine"- you'll be o.k with that ointment. No problem, I think you were going by my spelling which was way off!
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 4, 2008 19:24:24 GMT -5
GOOD NEWSThe vet says NO to any tumors. Also, NO to ring worm, you'll see in the photo. BAD NEWSThe vet says YES to a cut that got infected. This cut happened within 3 hours on Thursday. At 5pm I was playing with her and she was fine. I stick her in cage, I leave, back at 830pm and I see the first red spot, tough grey matter. So this happened somewhere in her cage! There are a few places in the cage that might have been overlooked, though I could swear I checked everything before we let them in there, that Kiwi could have been cut on. We used hardware cloth (1/2") around the outside of the cage, stapled and I cut off every single bit that was sharp. Screws perhaps are sticking out of the wood? I'll have to check that. I used wires to hold their hammocks up, but tried to hide all the points behind fabric. Maybe she jumped and scraped it? Treatment: Says YES to Bacitracin Ointment to keep using and also Hydrogen Peroxide to keep it clean. If not better by end of week, call the vet and I will get an antibiotic ointment for it. Hopefully it won't come to that. OK, I've just checked out the hammocks, no blood, shouldn't I be seeing a good amount of blood?? Thats a deep cut to not bleed any. I'll have to check the outside of the cage too incase she jumped along there. She's very jumpy and loves to jump at things, even when it makes no sense!
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Post by josiesmom on Aug 4, 2008 21:55:00 GMT -5
Well that's a tremendous relief! Although being as it may be a wire cut- did your vet consider a tetanus shot?
Definitely check all your hardware cloth ends. And the wires used to hang your hammocks, even though they may be hidden inside the fabric, could easily poke through and stab her.
One way to check for snag areas is to use a pair of old nylon stockings and put your hand inside the foot, now run your hand over every surface of their cage. Anyplace it snags, could be a source of a problem.
Another place to check would be under your furniture, especially if they get to run free. These guys can climb up inside, get injured and climb back out without ever making a peep!
It definitely looks much improved since the hair clumps have been removed!
That's one less worry for you! Cheers, Kim
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 4, 2008 22:31:17 GMT -5
Thank you Kim! It looks better without all the hair stuck on. Do you believe the grey matter was dried blood and then a scab? With the hair just fell off on it? Or perhaps that was his skin, never fully ripped off? But then detached from blood and what not? I will be going along every surface I can find, and perhaps finding some sort of tape to use along the outside edges where the hardward cloth is. I wouldn't be surprised if she jumped up along the cage and it happened. The girl is nuts! They cannot get into my couch because it sits on the floor. Yes, its like we're in preschool here, but I've already had that scare! My bedroom and kitchen are off limits. I have very little "I-can-hide-under-here" furniture. It may very well have been the dryer tube. I might just buy another to be safe. They scratch and claw at that thing nonstop, I think Apple loves the noise and maybe Kiwi loves the vibrations! Either way, here is the photos of tonight after Hydrogen Peroxide and Bacitracin were put on it. Note the shiny gooey stuff is ONLY the Bacitracin, nothing is oozing from the wound. Also, this is similar to how it looked last night, but it was larger, darker, and nastier.
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Post by mustelidmusk on Aug 4, 2008 23:22:01 GMT -5
Hooray!!!!! I'm soooo relieved to hear all is well!!! And, the hydrogen peroxide with antbiotic ointment is what my vet would have recommended for a boo-boo - I'm glad all is working out. The pictures look so much better - if I had seen the latest pictures with the inflamtion subsidng, I would have recommended giving it a few more days. But the gray matter was kinda freaking me out- couldn't tell what the heck was going on! The idea behind hydrogen peroxide is that the peroxide is an antiseptic (antiseptics tend to be irritating). Antiseptics are used to clean and prevent germs. The Bacitracin is a topical antibiotc. Antibiotics fight infection. Bacitracin (in non-ointment form) sometimes used in eye infection meds, and it's less likely to trigger allergies than some of the others like neosoprin, etc. It works on both strep and staph germs which are some of the most common skin bacterial infections. If this does not go aay by the end of the week, the vet will probably prescribe a stronger med that works on a broad spectrum of bacteria. Anyway, even without a tumor , it's very good to get a vet to look at something nasty like that since skin infetcions can get systemic and/or equire oral antibiotcs if they get bad enough. Also, I'm not 100% convinced that the cut was all that new. It seems like it would tak a while for that thick gray scab to develop. It may have been mmore like a bite that abcessed?? It sure looked like it had been there for a while. Dooks to all! -jennifer
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