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Post by pear2apple on Jul 31, 2008 21:42:31 GMT -5
OK guys, I was playing with Kiwi and I found this spot. It looks like several things: 1. She smashed her knee into litter and it dried there? (But I don't have dust...) 2. She smashed her knee into the food and it dried there 3. She smashed her knee into poop, the weird grey/seedy kind that Apple had a few days ago, and it dried there 4. It was bloody and then got coated with something greyish 5. Its some type of sore and scabbed over 6. HUGE over production of oils, except her hair is stuck in it OK, so this is the best photo I could get, she's impossible plus the flash just whites everything out since she's already whitish! I just felt it today, I wasn't home last night, so maybe something happened in the cage then. But I pick her up daily and I usually touch her knees, I mean she's not chubby and is light-colored, its easy to see differences on her. If this means anything, when I got her I noticed patches of fur missing, on her toes and on this knee. It wasn't missing entirely, just looked like it was "shaved" but it was only a 1/4" spot, then fur, then spot, then fur, so no way it could've been shaved. I meant to photograph it but haven't had any time lately. I tried to wipe water on it because I thought it might be dirt. Nothing happened. Then I saw her fur was stuck in it. At first she didn't respond when I touched it or when I put water on it. Now she won't sit still when I try to move aside her fur for a better look. This first photo makes me think it might've been bloody. I don't know what from, however she is always throwing herself up against things to try to climb them. Could she have scratched something? But theres no blood anywhere. I've been gone for 4 hours, and before I left I played with her and didn't notice this, not to say it just happened. I never leave them out of the cage unless I am home to watch them. I just don't know what this is, how to get it off if possible, or whether I should run to the vets? It doesn't seem to bother her, she's still playing with Apple (video up soon), jumping at things, hanging around me, pooping, eating, nothing is different but this spot! Ideas? Thanks guys! Here's the best I could get: The location of the spot on her body: Another closeup: And another:
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Post by mustelidmusk on Aug 1, 2008 0:56:09 GMT -5
One of my girls got a boo-boo that looked similar to that. She squeeze herslf out of a temporary cage when I had to separate my "hobnoxiuos" unneutered male before my ferret nation cages arrived. Is there any place in the cage where her leg could have gotten stuk - like between a ramp and the cage wall??? It looks like he's either licking it to death and scratching the skin off by working it over, or she got stuck and struggled, which scraped the skin. You may want to clip the fur shorter over the wound, apply some peroxide, and then put a small amount of Bacitracin (there are more allergies to neosporin) on it. If the or Apple are licking/biting at it, Bitter Apple ( ) might help. If it doesn't start healing, take her in to the vet, but I'd give it a few days to see it if will heal on its own. -jennifer
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Post by Forum Administrator on Aug 1, 2008 7:18:38 GMT -5
That looks like the mast cell tumor that Sams had on his upper right shoulder. Most of the time I couldnt even tell it was there, but sometimes it would scab up, bleed, and look like that pic above. Then it would heal up and be fine, and then it would bleed again a few months later. In ferrets mast cell tumors are almost always benign. It might not be a mast cell tumor, but that is my guess. Only your doc can tell you for sure. Because they are almost always benign you dont have to get them removed. Your doctor can discuss it with you more. Sams tumor was just a small bump (looked like a mosquite bite bump that humans get) and the only time I noticed it was when it scabbed up that first time. When Sams scabbed up I just washed it gentely with soap and water and it would stop bleeding on its own. If it goes away and never comes back, like you never even see a small bump, then it might not be a mast cell. Fugue occasionally gets scabs because he's always squeezing into things and being a butthead. If you see it go away and it comes back in that same spot later on then I'd talk to your vet about it. I wouldnt panic as it doesnt appear to be a pressing medical issue (like it wont kill her, its just a mast cell or a boo boo ) , but its definitly important to keep an eye on it. Oh and another thing, when Sams tumor would scab up he would try to scratch at it (I guess it felt itchy) Let us know what happens.
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 1, 2008 8:04:16 GMT -5
Is there any place in the cage where her leg could have gotten stuk - like between a ramp and the cage wall??? It looks like he's either licking it to death and scratching the skin off by working it over, or she got stuck and struggled, which scraped the skin. You may want to clip the fur shorter over the wound, apply some peroxide, and then put a small amount of Bacitracin (there are more allergies to neosporin) on it. If the or Apple are licking/biting at it, Bitter Apple ( ) might help. If it doesn't start healing, take her in to the vet, but I'd give it a few days to see it if will heal on its own. -jennifer The cage walls are hardware cloth and are all stapled on the OUTSIDE of the cage, also I clipped every single rough edge to make sure it was safe for them. There is one part of the back wall that we needed to use 2 pieces of harware cloth for. So they overlap and then are "sewed" together with wire in the back, so again no wire show because the back is against a wall. So possibly, I've been meaning to sew some fabric over that spot. I guess I will jump on it, but they haven't had a problem for so long. She's the very curious type. Last night when she was half asleep I gave her some Ferrevite on her tummy and tried to wipe some of it away with a warm washcloth. Not sure if any came off but I could see the patches of skin that were bare around it. So no idea what could have happened there, it was healthy pink skin. Hopefully I won't have to take her to the vet for this. However if I do, it won't be that horrible because maybe I could find out how old she is then. And anything else that needs done. Not really sure what this is "Bacitracin"? I think I know, but not sure. Same aisle as Neosporin I hope? And then peroxide I should have that anyway, I will buy some after work. I'll also grab my boyfriend to help cut away some of Kiwi's fur, and then take more photos for you guys, perhaps you could see it clearer then!
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 1, 2008 8:25:50 GMT -5
Thanks Giuli! Almost missed your entire post there!
She does itch at it, and I try to move her away when she does. But it does seem to bother her otherwise. Not sure if she is licking at it either. Should I put anything on it like Jennifer suggested? Or just try to wash it away, trim the fur to help with that, and leave it alone to see what happens?
I'll have to look up mast cell tumors now and read about them. But if its benign, fantastic! I hope this is nothing that needs to be removed, that would really suck right now. So many medical problems with these 2 now! Sigh..
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Post by mustelidmusk on Aug 1, 2008 8:46:57 GMT -5
I was thinking the same - a posible mast cell tumor. I get them removed when they're very small because they are VERY itchy, The cells release histamines, which is why I mentioned the biting and licking. Mast cell tumors are extremely low risk...I recommend simply cleaning it up (clipping the fur, and trying to get it to heal. The peroxide will help to dry up the oozing crust - and the fur will just stick to it if not clipped short) Once the tumor gets all chewed up, it can be difficult to see where the tumor begins and ends, which makes diagnosis more difficult. Again, I have all skin tumors removed whern they're tiny. If it is a skin tumor, it will only get bigger and be a source of constant irritaion and possible infection. Anything small is easier to remove and heal up. But, I figured you might to try to heal the irritaion on its own since it could possibly be an injuryor bug bite. (Kachina had an injury that looked like that) Plus it may be more difficult for the vet to diagnose it when it's all ripped up like that (the link below has a photo of a mast cell tumor that's not all ripped up.) I did not want to alarm you since you've just been through an ordeal with Apple. If the spot does not start to clear up in aseveral days, I'd take Kiwi to the vet just to get a proper diagnosis. (Although most skin tumors are benign, some are not. ) Then you can discuss options with your vet. Removal is curative for most skin tumors, and most do not need to be addresesed right away (some people just leave them alone) Here are some links below - the first one discusses mast cell tumor. The second addresses skin tumors in ferrets. www.afip.org/consultation/vetpath/ferrets/Mast/mastcell.htmlwww.ferretcentral.org/faq/med/mast.htmlI'm just hoping this is an injury or spide bite that Kiwi chewed up so you don't get hit wth another vet bll. Good luck with this - and pleas keep us posted. -jennifer
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 1, 2008 9:03:58 GMT -5
I think I will do what you guys have suggested and see if I can clean it up now, then take more photos and post for you. Then if possible wait a few days, see if it goes away. If it goes away I might skip the vet, and if it returns clean it up again then head to the vet to talk about it.
I'd prefer not to remove it if I don't have to, but obviously if most of you and my vet recommend it, I would.
Thanks for all your replies! I will give more news tonight.
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Post by Forum Administrator on Aug 1, 2008 9:10:10 GMT -5
I'd prefer not to remove it if I don't have to, but obviously if most of you and my vet recommend it, I would. . I never had Sams mast cell removed. I figured it wasnt worth putting him "under" just to get the mast cell off. If he was going to have a surgery for something else and he was already "put under" I was going to have the vet take it off, but I didnt feel it would be best to put him through sugery just for the mast cell. Does that make sense?
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 1, 2008 9:26:48 GMT -5
I'd prefer not to remove it if I don't have to, but obviously if most of you and my vet recommend it, I would. . I never had Sams mast cell removed. I figured it wasnt worth putting him "under" just to get the mast cell off. If he was going to have a surgery for something else and he was already "put under" I was going to have the vet take it off, but I didnt feel it would be best to put him through sugery just for the mast cell. Does that make sense? Yes it does. I remember you saying that in another thread, and thats what I was thinking as well. No surgery if its not imperative!
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Post by mustelidmusk on Aug 1, 2008 17:26:20 GMT -5
A lot will depend on how much it bothers her and how much risk may be involved with the surgery. My vet has been able to remove tiny things without even putting the ferret completely out - just a bit of local anesthesia and quick whiff of the isoflurane, a quick swipe with "the knife" and it's done. Takes about 5 minutes. A lot depends on the vet.
If this is mast cell tumor, it probably won't heal up on its own since she's scrtaching it up. Check out the pictures from the URL I sent.
If your girl has small bald patches, look for little bumps in them - they could be more mast cell tumors, especially if they're red and kind of flaky.
Regarding age, it's best determined by the teeth. As ferrets get older, their teeth get more transluscent - especially the canine's at the tips. This usually is noticeable around 3-4 years of age and progresses with time.
Fingers crossed that the sore will heal.
-jennifer
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 2, 2008 8:37:39 GMT -5
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Post by mustelidmusk on Aug 2, 2008 14:10:04 GMT -5
That looks pretty deep and nasty to me. It doesn't look like any mast cell tumors I've seen, but I've always had them removed when they're tiny. The graiysh wart-like matter looks more like a tumor than an injury/scab. I recommend taking her in to the vet ASAP.
I know that's the last thing you want to hear, but, it's my honest opinion. -jennifer
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 2, 2008 15:08:12 GMT -5
I posted about this on Ferret Village as well, they have also said it didn't look like a mast cell tumor. But then what does it look like??
The grey matter looks like it could come off, however I don't want to pull it off! I don't really know what to do with it now, I could call for a vet appointment on Monday. I put Bacitrain on it and as long as she's not constantly licking I may be ok. I'm going to look at it again, wipe with warm water again and see how it looks now. I really hope this isn't some crazy cut. NO idea where it would come from, I haven't found blood anywhere, though that kinda rough patch it still exposed in the cage. I will check that out too and see if I can fix it.
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Post by pear2apple on Aug 2, 2008 16:11:40 GMT -5
OK, it looks different. A big chunk of the grey stuff came off. Don't know where or how, but its no longer there. No pics because my camera battery is dead. It is located in the middle of the other grey stuff. She licks this spot a lot. Maybe she licked it off, or Apple did. I don't think he did, or maybe it rubbed off on something, I am searching for sharp edges now.
The skin underneath the grey stuff is a darker pink. Looks a bit irritated, but not bloody. It really looks like that dark orange color of the oils at the base of the grey stuff and her skin. However, it is a big and noticeable spot on her leg.
I'm going to schedule a vet appointment on Monday afternoon and just take her in for a checkup. I might as well, and then he can look at this and we can discuss what it might be. It just looks really nasty, I'd rather have the vet check it out then let me know what to do! I'll be applying more Bacitrain though until Monday.
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Post by mustelidmusk on Aug 3, 2008 1:33:32 GMT -5
It's good to keep infection out. It could be a basal cell tumor - they can look pretty ugly even though they're not very risky.
I suspect your vet will recomend removal. But depending on what he finds (he may be able to scrape some cells and determine the nature of how it may grow), you may have the option to wait a while before shceduling surgery. If so, get your vet's recommendation on how to treat this topically to keep it from becoming infected.
I would be sweet if this were just a boo-boo that needed cleaning and topical meds. But it does look a bit "warty" to be an abrasion.
-jennifer
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