Yuki and Nikko go raw

[mustelidmusk]

Hi!
Sorry it takes me forever to respond - WORK gets in my way every time

Anyway, I'm glad you read the Toby's Mindy thread since it took me so longto get to the forum today! The Wysong Archetypal I is WONDERFUL for providing flexibility since you can leave it out and it doesn't spoil like wet food.

I understand not wanting to fast-switch your new babies. I always slow switch because I think it offers more benefits than fast switching.

Anyway, I never took my ferrets' kibble away. It basically sits there as a cage decoration just in case they want a bite or two. They rarely touch the stuff, but they know it's edible if they want it, and occasionally, I'll see each of them eat a piece here or there - maybe once every couple of weeks. I LIKE the fact that they will eat the stuff if they need to.

I started by getting my brats to eat variety. I added a few pieces of different kibbles into their regular kibble. Added Totally Ferret Chicken Bits, freeze-dried liver pieces, etc. I sprinkled the Wysong's Archetypal I in with the kibble. I then offered the archetypal I as treats. I started sprinkling it into the kibble and giving them chunks as treats.

At the same time, I started with the baby food by letting them lick this treat off my fingers. I switched baby food flavors constantly.

I really focused on different textures and tastes to get them looking forward to the unusual things they might find. I didn't worry about them liking things - I just wanted to stimulate their interest in food.

When I started raw commercial diet, the were already mostly on the Wysongs Archetypal I. I used the Nature's Variety Raw frozen, and I got each ferret to eat 1/4 ounce a day until they were comfortable with it. I then offered the 1/4 ounce twice a day. Then I increased the quantity. The nice part is that my kds are now very flexible, and they "save room" for the raw frozen both morning and evening. If they eat lots of raw frozen at one feeding, they may want less at the next feeding. And, if they don't want much raw frozen for a feeding, I don't need to worry since they have the Archetypal I.

Of course, I feed different versions of the Nature's variety raw. When I started feeding raw fresh lamb, they had already been eating lamb baby food and lamb freeze-dried. I started introducing rabbit by mixing a small amount in the chicken. I then offered 1/4 ounce per feerret and let them have chiscken for the rest of that meal.

I feel that this whole slow-switch process develops a lot of trust between you and your ferret. It's more like asking them to try something, and they've learned that this is all good.

A whole lot less frustration and stress for all. Switching them was really fun! And, of course we have the foraging cups!!! I try to continue to offer new things - even if it's just rearranging the foraging cups or mixing a bit of rabbit and lamb together. I have tons of freeze-dried treats - but they last because I have so many different types.

In summary, I look at feed as a HUGE opportunity to provide a lot of new adventures for my kids...the nutritional aspect just ccoes along with the fun and games.

Please feel free to as questions or PM me any time. I'll be happy to work with you . Even if it takes a couple of months to get your kids switched over, it will be worth the time. I think slow switch with LOTS of options allows you time to tray a few things, and your kids will be more accepting of the change.

Also, I'm not sure I could take an animals's food away - they would not understand at all. and I would think they'd wonder why I was doing that to them!!! (I know, I'm such a softie, and ferrets are very forgiving )

SOunds like you're already off to a good start, just let me know if you have any questions about anything!

-jennifer

[quill]

Thanks Jennifer. Just a couple of questions.

I don't want to make too many changes at once. I think I need to have a least one thing the same (make additions in different bowl) so they will feel secure about this...your thoughts?

Dry evo kitten/cat kibble is available at all times in their cage.

They are still eating the ground chicken/kibble. I plan to add less kibble and mostly chicken until they are accepting the raw chicken as Jaycee advised.

Can I go ahead and add the Wysong's Archetypal I in their dry food when I receive it. Or just offer as a treat at first. Or both?

They will eat kibble moist or dry.

They will eat in their cage and in their playpen.

They won't, yet, accept treats from my hands. Working on this. They will take it when I set it down...so they know I'm giving it to them, they just won't take it from me yet.

Is it ok for me to offer them a small piece of raw whatever I'm cooking for dinner? Who knows, they may just eat it .

Thanks for everyone's help!!!

[mustelidmusk]

I wouldn't worry about offering too many tidbits of differnt foods as long as they have a stable base of things they can fall back on...like kibble to start with.

Continue with the kibble and raw meat approach, adding more meat every day or couple of days as Jaycee suggested.

You can try offering the Wysong's without mixing it in with the kibble. They may just go for t. If they're reluctant, I'd sprinkle ome in the kibble and increase the % of wysong dailty. Once they readily accept the Wysong withthe kibble, you may want to try the Wysong in a separate bowl and the kibble just plain as well.

Again, as long as you're not completely ruining their food all day long or abruptly taking away the things they're used to having, they'll probably be more interested in the new smells than they will be annoyed.

Keep in mind that new stuff tends to be more readily accepted as "tastes" at first and/or smaller quantities. So, the first time they try something, you may want to offer it as a treat or as a small percentage of their regular food.

It sounds like they'll switch pretty smoothly. Jut be patient and have fun with them. They grow so fast when they're young!!!

-jennifer

[quill]

Last night just before bed I gave Yuki and Nikko a fresh bowl of ground chicken/kibble. This morning all of it was gone!!! YAY! When they saw me around the food dish they came running and was stilling standing there when I returned with their food. They pounced on it!!! Today I think I will keep the chicken/kibble the same...I think I'll keep this as my 'ever ready and accepted' food during the switch...and offer some chopped chicken breast, gizzard, and heart in a different bowl. I really think Nikko will eat it....if Yuki won't I'll sprinkle a little crushed kibble over it.

Thank you, Jennifer, for showing me that this can be fun and doesn't have to be stressful and hurried!

[Forum Administrator]

Excellent news, Trina! Hooray! Go babies go!

[quill]

This afternoon while grinding the chicken I decided to not add the kibble just to see what they would do.

Nikko ate it...a lot of it!!! Yay!

Yuki...not so much! I think I'll have to sprinkle a little kibble on hers, but I'm calling her bluff right now.

[Forum Administrator]

I TOLD you babies are easy to switch!!!

Wait...I thought Yuki was a girl Are you just so excited you made a typo?

[quill]

Jun 27, 2008 14:42:50 GMT -5 Forum Administrator said:

Wait...I thought Yuki was a girl Are you just so excited you made a typo?

Yes! I'm very excited and also I'm not used to having a girl.

[mustelidmusk]

Hi!!!

Your kids are doing great!!!

To keep this fun for everyone, I'd continue with the kibble-coated chicken for a while. This approach offers 2 smells as food- kibble and chicken, which will help then retain kibble as a recognized food. You can reduce the amount if of kibble if you want to. Disasters such as floods, tornados, ice storms, earthquakes, etc. DO happen. So having kids that will eat kibble if they get really hungry is not a bad thing at all. Besides I know some very healthy people who eat at MacDonalds once in a while

Here are some potential goals we can work on....

1. Continue to accept kibble as food if they get hungry (i.e., you want this to be their least favorite food!!!)
2. eat from your hands while bing held (BONDING exercise and essential to reduce stress if the ferret is not eating due to surgery, health issue, etc)
2. Eat freeze-dried raw diet and freeze-dried meats
3. eat soup/porridge
4. Eat reat meaty bones
5. eat whole prey

For most ferrets, there are usually 5 hurdles that need to be crossed to achieve these goals...
1. eating wet food that's not soupy (raw meat)
2. eating soup
3. eating big chunks of meat
4. eating bone
5. getting past the fur and feathers

If you want your kids to continue to recognizekibble as food....
Continue to provide kibble at all times. they'll get so they rarely eat any all. they know its there, but they'll wait for the ggod stuff. If they need to eat, it's there for them. (If I take the kibble away from my kids, they're more interested in it when it's returned to the cage But all ferrets my not be the same)

for hand feeding....when you r kids come running for the food bowl, give them et a piece or two by hand before setting the bowl down. Once they get to liking the hand held treats, strt picking each one up one at a time -SIT ON THE FLOOR when you start picking them up. this ids for their safety, sense of security and bonding - the ferret that's not currently being held will be crawling all over you!!!

For the wet food that's not soup....
Based on your desire to eventually feed raw meaty bones and whole prey, I would...
1. continue to coat the raw meat with crushed kibble since prey andsome raw meaty bones have barriers that need to be penetrated toget to the good tuff!
2. SLOWLY make the chunks of meat larger.
By default, the percntage of meat to kibble will increase by default! Plus, your babies will be learning to hadle bigger chuns of meat.

This approach will prepare them for more natural feeding while still keeping kibble on the menu.

PLUS.. here's another fun thing to do....the kibble can be slowly replaced with couarsely ground egg shell, wysong archetypal I,(the crubly stuff, pingford's porridge (dry), freeze-dried liver treats (crumbled).

So many options -just introduce things slowly, and your kids will eat just about anything. The key is to go SLOW on their food changes.

New tidbits and treats can be offered flat out as is for some enrichment. If they accept the treats as is, cool!!! If not, they you can work them slowly into their taste buds!!!

Soup - you can start with soaked kibble, slowly add more and more water to he kibble. add a tiny bit of porridge, decrease the amount of kibble over time such that you're feeding porridge only. You can do this with egg yolk, baby food (lamb?), add a few drops of salmon oil, etc.

So, those are the options i recommend so far.
Please lt me know what you want to work on, ask questions, and then we can focus in as necessary.

Oh - also read the post under general feeding called Fake Prey Recipe- you'll be laughing, but its a great way to prep ferrets for raw meaty bones and prey.

One more thing...in poultry, dark meat is better for ferrets - more fat nd more taurine - use thighs for now since you're not yet feeding bone.

HAVE FUN
-jennifer
"

[quill]

Hi Jennifer, thanks for your suggestions.

This is what's going on now:
In their cage I leave dry kibble and kibble covered chicken.

In their playpen I feed raw chicken/no kibble.
I use their playpen to introduce new foods - eaiser to clean up.

Dry meat: I do not have the Wysong yet

Based on your suggestions I think this is what I'd like to work on:

1. eating soup (I haven't offered soup yet)
2. eating big chunks of meat
3. accepting food from my hand
4. accepting food from my hand while holding in lap.

Yuki does not liked to be 'held.' She does like to climb on me and play with me. She will even jump onto me and lets me love her. But she does not like to be held or carried at all.
Nikko - well I think I could hold Nikko upsidedown by one leg and he wouldn't care!!

[Jaycee]

I think once you get them eating the soup with chuncks of chicken in it, it is all down hill from there. Mine are tearing into wingettes as of last night, and I only just introduced them to it yesterday night. My younges is only 10 weeks, and she will fight off the older ferrets to claim her meal. I am really excited, and I know you are too!

[quill]

Jun 28, 2008 12:36:17 GMT -5 Jaycee said:

Mine are tearing into wingettes as of last night, and I only just introduced them to it yesterday night. My younges is only 10 weeks, and she will fight off the older ferrets to claim her meal. I am really excited, and I know you are too!

I can't wait to give them a wingette...I might offer one just to see what they'll do with it. They are very active so if I play tug-o-war with it they might chomp in and get the taste.

[Jaycee]

How old are they...my memory is failing in my "old" age (29 almost 30).

[quill]

Well, we're really not sure. The pet store told us that they got their paperwork all messed up, so they couldn't guarantee the birth dates.

According to papers Nikko is 11 weeks, but I think he is much younger. He still has his little baby teeth and just looks younger. I'm guessing more like 9-10 weeks

Yuki - papers say 16 weeks...that's close enough.

I haven't had them vet checked. I'm still a little shell shocked

[Jaycee]

I would go ahead and try a wingette with the tug of war game, or coat it with kibble. Mine took right too it, even the older ones. Yours are still pretty young, so, what could it hurt to try???

I do know it takes a while for them to actually eat the bone. Mine are eating all the meat off, and maybe a little bone here and there.