GoingPostal's Switching Thread/Sherrylynne

[Heather]

Name: Tiffany
HF Forum Username: GoingPostal

1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets?

I think ferretvillage, I know josiesmom had some interesting posts about it and someone linked me here

2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.

I'd like to fully switch and feed both whole prey and raw, I'd prefer mostly whole prey but shipping costs make this unlikely

3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?

I think they should be eating as natural a diet as possible and that it's the best thing I can do for their health.

4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?

Yes, I work a lot but part time and the next few months are generally slow for me, I've put it off long enough due to work and cost.

5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight?

I have 4 right now,

Pandora is my only female, she's 4, at a good weight and no health issues

Pip, 5? Male, Adrenal but responding to Lupron, overweight, he's a normal winter hog

Koda, 5? Male, no health issues, also winter fat

Craven 5?, Male, Adrenal, not responding to Lupron and partially bald, he's maybe slightly underweight but mostly lack of muscle mass


6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc)

Innova Evo kibble, vary the flavors between Chicken/Turkey, Red Meat, Cat and Ferret. Foster and Smith Natural kibble, mice 1-2x a week, ferretone once a week for nail clippings and occansional soup made of Evo canned cat food 95% chicken/turkey, raw egg, fish oil, uncle jims duk soup mix. Dried Liver ferret treats sometimes

7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?

I have been feeding mice for two years now on occansion, they've also had gerbil, cornish game hen, eggs cooked and raw and various raw meats offered. I have one who is very eager to try anything, one who's pretty good about eating raw and two who are resistant.

8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?

The three males were rescues and ages unknown, they are all Marshalls but my female was a pet store bought Petersen's. She's my mouse dispatcher. 2 of the 3 males have been tossed from home to home a couple times and were fed crap kibble before me. The 3rd was being fed scraps along with dog and cat food, he's the try anything guy. My group isn't caged, they have their own room. I've lost four ferrets already and really want to give these guys the best chance at a healthy longer life. I'm also wanting to switch my cat over, she's on canned but takes to raw like a natural with the exception of the gerbils, which seemed to confuse her since they weren't mice.

9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?

Normally several times a day, Wed and Sat I sometimes work two jobs and aren't on as much but can still pop in and check on stuff

10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).

Taken tonight
Pandora


Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (sherrylynne) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey.
ciao

[sherrylynne]

Hello there! I'm Sherrylynne, and I'll be your mentor for their switch
First, a little about me. I'm 51, and have my own housecleaning business here in Calgary Alberta. I have 4 cats, ranging in age from 6yrs, to 17(only one would eat raw, unfortunately ). I also have 9 ferrets. Boris and Vincent came first, two brothers, a sable and albino. Then Sinnead. I got her when she was 2. She's now 5, and adrenal. She's on lupron, and I've decided against surgery for her.
After that came my first deaf ferret, Lucrezia. A marked DEW. Then two foster ferrets, whom we fell in love with and adopted- Zeus and Athena, both two years old at that time. Also both adrenal, and on lupron.
After that, a little abused ferret we called Willow. She was the worst fear biter I've had, although now she's becoming a sweetie . Then, Emily. 1 month younger than Willow, and those two have bonded strongly. She's the only one Willow wasn't terrified of.Suki is the last one, I swear! She was a little 8 month old darling the pet store was having a hard time selling, so were getting ready to send her back!
While transitioning the first four, Boris was my hold out. EVERYTHING I gave him was poison, in his mind . Worst little drama queen I've seen yet . Twisting to get away, gagging, retching- he did all of it! Then one day- he ate it! Every single piece on the plate ! Those four haven't looked back. Although Boris would still be a kibble head if I let him.
The next two for transitioning were the fosters. Until we adopted them, I could only supplement with raw. So in order not to cause unnecessary tummy upsets(mixing kibble and raw too closely can cause some problems- more about that later), I'd give them raw one day, and kibble on a different day. So, by the time we adopted, they had no problem with 100% raw diet.
With Willow, I brought her home, and she flatly refused to eat the totally ferret kibble, so I went back to the pet store and got her a small bag of the crap they were feeding them there, and brought it home. I tried to give her some, but she just upset the dish. So- I tried her with some chicken breast. She ate it up! Hasn't had kibble since . Emily came to us as a raw fed ferret, so no issues there. Suki was another kibble head, but caging her in the daytime with Miss Emily showed her how to eat raw.
That's me and mine in a nutshell

The reason I started looking a raw feeding was something my vet said to me. I was, at the time, giving them small pieces of fruit for treats. She told me that was VERY bad for them, and in fact, some studies have started to link early feeding of sugars with insulinoma later in life. So- I started thinking. Kibbles are full of carbs. It's all those grains/veg/fruits in them. Those are converted to sugars by the body. To me then, sugar= potential insulinoma.
So, I started checking out various diets. I had no idea what an obligate carnivore was at the time. I found out! Not much wonder there was soooo much poop in the box! I may as well have been tossing my money in there. They can't process anything that's not meat based! So I feed meat
Their fur is softer, their energy levels are amazing- no mad rushes then crashing. Even my three year old's teeth are amazing. No plaque whatsoever Healing is faster, and if they do get ill, they have more reserves to rely on than when they were just kibble fed!
And there is a LOT LESS POOP!!!! Yay!
I'm looking forward to helping your little ones get on a much healthier diet, and having fun while we're at it ;D

[goingpostal]

Yay! My own thread! I have been feeding them some raw and trying a bit on my own, basically Pip eats anything, I gave them straight chopped chicken breasts chunks the one day and he dug right in, Pandora is pretty good, she'll eat some, Koda and Craven still prefer mush, they will grab chunks and run off sometimes but definately not gung ho on the idea. All of them eat mice.

I haven't went totally crazy raw because I don't feel I have enough variety yet, I'm low on my mice breeding waiting for food to come in and besides that I have ground turkey, ground venision, a couple cornish game hen and turkey gizzards in my freezer right now. I know chicken is on sale so I should go pick some up and freezer bags. I also just got in my fish oil for them, but need to order some taurine and crushed eggshell. For mush, they are used to the cat's canned Evo, chicken and turkey flavor and they will eat the ground turkey and venison with just a bit of this mixed in, but not chunky yet, but the other two eat the chunks. I don't have a blender, I have a couple small food processors though.

[sherrylynne]

Since they are already eating a mush, you don't need to worry about blenderizing the meats, unless you want them to eat a weekly soup(not a bad idea, by the way!).
Since Pips will already eat chunks, keep him on those. How large are the chunks is he eating now?
Pandora might actually be eating all she needs. Some of my smaller girls eat maybe 1-2 oz of meat a day.
With Koda and Craven, give them the meat mush, but start mixing in some bits that are just a wee bit bigger than the size of ground meats. That way, they still don't have to chew yet, but get used to the larger size.
Also, are you taking the kibble out for a few hours before offering the meat? They need to build up a bit of an appetite. I'm not overly comfortable with leaving the kibble out all night like I'd usually recommend since Craven's not responding to the lupron. How many shots has he had by the way?
Sinnead took a couple of shots a month apart to start responding. He may also need a higher dose.

[goingpostal]

I had been taking the kibble out a few hours before giving the mush, what I'd been trying lately was removing kibble, then offering the meat, those who eat that do and then I would add some of the canned food and smaller bits, they seem to eat gizzard bits better than anything so far. I just worry that they aren't getting enough real meat to support them.

Pip, doesn't really turn his nose up at anything, in the past I'd offered game hen cut in half and he'd chew up that no problem, Pandora would as well, the other two no go. The reluctant two picked up mouse eating just from watching the others so I'd kind of hoped the same would apply to other foods eventually.


Craven had 3 Lupron (monthly) shots before I gave up, he continued to lose fur, mass and didn't help the mating behavior either, he hasn't had a shot for 2 months now and is about the same. Pip responded well within 6 weeks on the other hand and you'd never know he was adrenal as well.

I also have chicken liver in my freezer, went and looked and will pick up a couple things tomorrow or Sat. I need to bring my scale downstairs, I've been eyeballing it which is bad. How much in grams should I be feeding? My scale doesn't go in ounces.

[sherrylynne]

Alright. With Pips and Pandora, we need to start introducing other meats, and get them a menu plan set up. Aim for bone in meats(wings, CGH, turkey necks, rabbit, quail, mice, to name a few) 8-9 meals a week. Muscle meats 3-4 meals a week. Liver/organ 1 meal a week. The more you can expose them to, the better, but as you know, minimum 3 proteins.
And the other two might just go for it. Hard to say. You'll quite likely have to work up to it for them, though. Oh, and 2 oz of liver would be about 56-57 grams.
I'm concerned about Craven's uncontrolled adrenal, as I know you are. What has the vet suggested? Can you get him to order in deslorelin? A melatonin implant? Or even try the surgery?

[goingpostal]

For Craven, I've thought about surgery, but I'm worried it may just come back in six months or something or that it will be right side which my vet doesn't do, it's $520 plus a day out of town trip so not cheap either, we had success with an adrenalectomy in the past on Precious but it just seems like such a risk with no guarentee. My vet hasn't ever used melatonin implants or ordered des. When I bring them in next I was going to print all the info off here and see if they could order it, it's hard since they are several hours from me to do things like this over the phone.

Back to the food, I'm going to see what I can find at the grocery store, they have chicken/turkey necks sometimes, I haven't had any luck getting the ferrets to eat these in the past although the cat loves them! I don't think there's any in right now but will talk to the butcher. CGH I have, and I'm going to go ahead and order some quail/rats/rabbit from rodent pro since I cannot get those locally, hopefully they eat them!

Would bone in pork sirloin be good? It's on sale $1.37 a pound right now and whole chickens are 97 cents a pound. Meat is pretty spendy and low on options up here so I want to stock up although my freezer is a small one.

[sherrylynne]

Anything you can name as meat is good As long as it's not altered in any way, that is. And how do you think I get the bulk of my meat? Whatever is on sale is what they get, as long as if follows the basic above guidelines Pork's on sale? That's two of the muscle meat meals that week. Wings- I get them by the large family pack
Just watch for sales, last day discounts, etc. If you're friends/family are cleaning out the freezers, tell them you'll take the freezer burned meats. Just cut the burn bit off. They obviously can't make a regular diet of freezer burn, but a meal every week or two? Certainly!
You can even set up so their diet contains 3 meats you can regularly get more cheaply than others, then just substitute with whatever you can find on sale!
And yes, I understand where you are coming from with the surgical route. I've opted not to do that with mine. But right now, they are all responding well to lupron. Sinnead does need hers upped, but she's done well to date.

[goingpostal]

Last night I gave them an egg (no shell, they just throw it everywhere) with chicken chunks and a bit of cat food, this morning they got ground turkey mixed with chopped turkey gizzards and some chicken liver, Pip dug right in, ate a bunch, ate some more and is eating again. Pandora ate some of the ground but wouldn't take a chunk, some with Craven and Koda I had to wake up and he wanted nothing to do with it yet. Tonight or tomorrow I'm going to clean out some 3.5 week old mice and feed those.

[goingpostal]

Dang they owe me! I just ordered some more prey for them, hopefully they will take to them, if not there's always the cat or the dogs right? Won't be here for probably two weeks though

15 Guinea Pigs: Large @ $1.10 ($16.50)
15 Quail: 10 Week @ $1.74 ($26.10)
25 Quail: 1 Week @ $.69 ($17.25)
25 Chicks: Small @ $.25 ($6.25)
25 Rats: Weaned @ $.89 ($22.25)
10 Guinea Pigs: Medium @ $1.00 ($10.00)
5 Rats: Large @ $1.49 ($7.45)
1 Rabbits: Small @ $5.00 ($5.00)

[goingpostal]

I hit the grocery store, got 4 pounds of pork loin, 2 turkey wings and some chicken thighs, plus some sardines although they weren't a hit last time I tried. I pretty much checked the whole store for options, there was whole duck but it was like $20! Out of the price range right now, there isn't really anything for organs other than liver, I already have chicken liver but the store sells beef and turkey as well. No kidney or heart. I packaged all the meat up into freezer bags sized for daily portions except for the chicken that's defrosting and I threw a couple small chunks of pork into their room to see if they will eat it.

[goingpostal]

I think the pork got ignored and there was still a few chunks of meat from earlier besides, I put the kibble down to distract them while I cleaned this evening and Koda dug right in but the rest ignored it so maybe Craven is eating enough?

Anyways just now I threw the rest of the meat left over in the food processor with some fish oil and canned food and gave them that, took away the kibble for the night since they are getting mice tomorrow. Pip again ran over and started eating it all so I took his fat butt out for separate playtime and to clip his nails since he fell asleep when I did the rest earlier. Once everybody else seemed to be done I stuck him back in. I need to weigh him, he is getting so fat! Koda dug into the soup mix and so did Craven and Pandora, I saw her eating a chunk but don't know if the others did.

[sherrylynne]

Mine won't eat when they first wake up either. That's why they now get fed when they go back INTO the cage . I was going to mention about ordering heart from rodentpro, then realized it's Hare Today that has things like that, But that's a decent order you got for them! And even if they don't take to everything right off, you can either feed to the cat/dog, or you can keep it in the freezer as well, for later trial.
With the pork, have they had it before? If not, they might need a bit of time to warm up to it.
For now, keep pushing Pip to new things, including bone and liver. With the others, keep up with the soup, making it slowly thicker, and adding slivers of meat into it.
You take the kibble out the night before you feed mice in the morning? Then do the same when you feed soup in the morning I was worried going that length of time would bother Craven, but if he's been doing that all along, then go for it! And yes, he may have eaten enough, but I know with my adrenals, I have to keep an eye out on what/how much they are eating. They seem to sometimes go through phases where they just aren't hungry, which can make them nauseous, which will cause them to not want to eat, etc.

[goingpostal]

No pork's a new protein for them so I'll probably go about that in soup form, they ate it all last night and my little food chopper doesn't get pieces very small. I gave them seven small mice this morning, Pip was busy devouring his and the rest were chewing on theirs. I also discovered that the cat can't eat pork, I cleaned that up in 3 separate places last night. Ick.

[sherrylynne]

Some are like that Could kitty have just eaten it too quickly, or in too big a chunk? As for fuzz, if the soup route is what works best for meat intro's, the go for it.