|
|
Post by keawearascal on Jan 21, 2011 14:44:36 GMT -5
I look at Keawea and think how lucky I am that except blindness and mast cell tumors, she is healthy. I think about her turning 7 soon and know she won't stay that way forever. I can't imagine never having a ferret again, but that's what I'm looking at. Even if I really wasn't bothered by the issues they face, my mother would throw a fit and she'll be living with me forever (I'm actually very OK with this, but it is one more reason I can't do mainstream ferrets again) I was thinkig though-I know I can't keep an intact jill due to bleeding issues with not being bred, but what about an intact hob? I have had intact dogs before (granted they WERE/are female, but I have been around intact male dogs and cats. I was thinking that keeping a male permanently intact and starting a raw diet at 8 weeks might dodge the bullets of adrenal and insulinoma? So has anyone kept one before? What was your experiance? Especially lifespan and health Thanks!
|
|
|
|
Post by bluemoose on Jan 21, 2011 14:50:46 GMT -5
I haven't kept one but I know that intact males are VERY stinky and they get very aggressive during breeding season. Keeping an intact ferret is very different than keeping a neutered one. For most ferret owners, intact males do not make very good pets. I'm sure someone with more experience will pop in but from what I've heard, keeping an intact male is not recommended.
There is experimentation with using hormonal treatment in place of neutering going on. You could look into that if you're interested but again, it's still experimental at this point.
Plus it might be difficult to obtain an intact ferret. Pet store ferrets are neutered when you buy them and breeders sell their kits on a spay/neuter contract. You'd have to find a breeder who trusts you enough to sell you an intact ferret that you won't breed.
|
|
taratee
Cageless and Roamin' Free
Posts: 255
|
Post by taratee on Jan 21, 2011 15:06:20 GMT -5
i thought it was early neutering that could be linked to adrenal not neutering period
|
|
|
|
Post by bluemoose on Jan 21, 2011 15:14:33 GMT -5
Early neutering is worse but even late alters can get adrenal. Whereas intact ferrets getting adrenal is very uncommon. A ferret neutered at any point in it's life will get confused signals and it's adrenal glands will go into overdrive which can eventually cause adrenal disease.
|
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Jan 21, 2011 16:19:23 GMT -5
Good answers bluemoose  Intact hobs can be aggressive to other ferrets, not to their people. It's much simpler to look at it that they will be, than they won't be ferret aggressive. They love their people though. They are just full of lovins....the pillows, the flowers, the table, your leg  They also love their smell...they rub it on your furniture, you....everything that they think should smell like them. Hobs are stinky...really stinky. Odin was an absolute sweetie and he was a good boy compared to some. He played with everyone, only getting into brawls once in awhile. Unfortunately, he thought Lady "B" loved him as much as he loved himself  She would see him swaggering down the hallway, scream at the top of her little lungs and disappear as fast as her little legs could carry her. Odin would continue trundling down the hallway, singing his little love songs. Have you ever seen the french skunk in Bugs Bunny? the one that is always after the cat? That was Odin Hobs are also very greasy. You can actually bathe them regularly while they're in season to try and keep the smell down on them. Some wash themselves in their strong smelling urine to enhance their stink, so bathing isn't an option if you plan to live with them, it's manditory. If you look closely at Odin's eyes in these photos you will see the oils that are secreted. These have a very strong smell.   I don't have many photos of Odin when he was intact. These series of photos, of him trying to get comfy in the tissue box is about the only ones. He just didnt' really fit, he kept popping out. He came to me at about the age of 5. He was a master escape artist (how he probably found himself at the shelter, looking for lovins in all the wrong places :  He was probably someone's studfuzz as there are a couple of backyard breeders in the area. He's really a gorgeous fuzz and built totally different from the farm ferrets. He's heavy, stocky...well muscled. I'm hoping that as I altered him at 5+ that he will not get adrenal until much later in life if at all. Yes, adrenal will happen even if you alter after the magic one year mark, check out Jennifer's article on adrenal disease. At the moment there is a lot of experimenting with deslorin as a chemical sterilization. What no one knows is if its reaction in the ferret's body is the same as castration or not. They're hoping that by leaving the ferret intact and giving the des that they will prevent adrenal. It's not been in use long enough to be sure of this. ciao |
|
|
|
Post by novemberkris on Jan 21, 2011 18:41:13 GMT -5
Heather, that is interesting, and of course will come with other issues. If you chemically are sterilizing and miss a dose, will there be risks of unplanned ferrenthood? That could be a shelter nightmare.
|
|
|
|
Post by wepamperpets on Jan 21, 2011 19:39:03 GMT -5
I've had a intact hob, and getting another one this breeding season or next, and I'm around alot of whole hobs. The hobs are very stinky! So stinky you hold a intact hob and it stays on your clothes for the rest of the day Some of the hobs seem more odorous then others, but they all get pretty rank when they come into season! They also get very oily and greasy! And turn this lovely neon yellow color lol Oh and dont forget about what piggies they become while in season! They mark (sorta like a dog but different) the cage and everything all up, Tipsy would even run up to me and ooz my shoe He was the biggest dirty pig while in season it was terrible and all his litter box habbits went right out the door. Once he got neutered, he was great with the litter box, no marking, no more stinkyness or greasy neon yellow hob. Early neuter is a big reason why so many pet store ferrets get adrenal like they do and often at such a young age. But do know that even late alter ferrets do get adrenal. But with a late neuter if they get adrenal its usually not until the later years in their life, and I know alot of late alters that didn't get it at all. So if your going to neuter the hob later is better for their health. And I know alot of people that have been going the chemical neuter route, some have done it with lupron and others desi. The thought is that you leave them intact and by doing this you get the benefits of a altered ferret while keeping the hob intact to prevent adrenal disease. Not enough studies yet to prove its true but so far it seems to be going well. But its new, so we shall see how it goes some years down the road. I plan to go the chemical neuter route with my hob that I'm getting. |
|
|
|
Post by mustelidmusk on Jan 21, 2011 19:39:41 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by mustelidmusk on Jan 21, 2011 20:24:55 GMT -5
Regarding late alter ferrets that "did not get adrenal at all".... I stand firmly on the belief that all neutered ferret will eventually get adrenal disease - if they live long enough. The simple reason for this is that you cannot overdrive an endocrine gland indefinitely without having it become hyperplastic 9and eventually cancerous. One thing I have noticed is that the late alters do not seem to develop the obvious clinical symptoms of adrenal disease. My own ferrets are a fine example....I diagnosed them based upon VERY SUBTLE behavior only. I have had some very experienced ferret people tell me I'm crazy, but both the adrenal panel and the surgery confirmed disease. Moreover, a local breeder has some late-alter ferrets that "do not get adrenal disease". These ferrets go to my vet. I asked my vet about these non-adrenal ferrets. My vet confirmed necropsy revealed diseased glands. The reality of the situation is that the late alters do get disease however, their symptoms are much more subtle and may be difficult to notice. There's an adrenal article by Dr. Cathy Johnson-Delaney that supports this theory. All ferrets, both intact and neutered (early and late) will experience a hormonal spike in late winter/spring unless something is done to stop this (deslorelin/lupron, etc.). In the case of late alter, Dr. Johnson-Delaney references the setting of a "gonadostat" that may be a puberty, which may limit the intensity of the hormonal response in late alters If gonads are missing, the adrenals will perform the function of hormone creation If this unnatural activity continues long enough, the adrenal glands WILL become diseased, regardless of clinical signs hat may/may no be present. These are the reasons why I support the theory that neutered ferret will get adrenal disease if they live long enough. It's very sad, but I believe it's a fact of life with ferrets until w get better at preventing this ever-so-frustrating curse on our sweet babies  -jennifer |
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Jan 21, 2011 21:54:06 GMT -5
Heather, that is interesting, and of course will come with other issues. If you chemically are sterilizing and miss a dose, will there be risks of unplanned ferrenthood? That could be a shelter nightmare. Ferrets aren't sneaky about their matings. The jills don't have silent seasons either. If you had both jills and hobs and running a shelter you would have to be a bit more careful about who got to live with whom, but it's not impossible. I had Odin altered because at the time I really wasn't prepared to deal with intact ferrets. I've had 2 intact hobs in the length of time that I've been dealing with ferrets. I've never had a jill. My understanding is that the des keeps a hob sterilized for 18 months to 2 yrs. You could not miss a hob in season, believe me. My understanding is the little girls also get rather odifurous too. There are also signs that you look for that clue you to the level of season your little girl is in too. You just do not let a hob snuggle with an in season jill, it's not something either of them can hide though. ciao |
|
|
|
Post by wepamperpets on Jan 22, 2011 19:01:18 GMT -5
yeah the jills get a bit of odor too, not nothing compared to the hobs though thank god Hailey is going into season soon, and she's starting to get a bit more odor! She's turning into quite the stinky lady! Think the worst part with her coming in season is being over protective of her "kits" which are the squeeky toys! and she has a "nest" in the TV stand She guards all squeeky toys and dont anyone dare touch one. I accidentally stepped on one of the toys and made it squeek, she came from no what and bit my foot (made it bleed right through my socks, grrr!) bc I was "killing her babies" |
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Jan 22, 2011 20:43:14 GMT -5
I'm sure your little girl was certain that you were hurting her babies. Are you going to jill-jab, v-hob or alter your little one?
ciao
|
|
|
|
Post by wepamperpets on Jan 22, 2011 23:54:30 GMT -5
I'm sure your little girl was certain that you were hurting her babies. Are you going to jill-jab, v-hob or alter your little one? ciao If she comes in season real soon then she will get a jill-jab. (v-hob far away so would do the jab first). She is going to be getting spayed feb-march. Breeder wants her spayed by then. I like to wait as late as possible to neuter/spay for the health of the ferret  My hob I will be getting, he will be kept whole and once he is of age, I'll try the chemical neuter and see how that goes. My friends have been doing it and it seems to be going great for them so I hope my hob will have the same results. |
|
|
|
Post by Heather on Jan 23, 2011 0:12:40 GMT -5
When will you be getting a hob? Are you going to keep him for breeding or are you just keep using the deslorin and keeping him intact and seeing how that works out?
ciao
|
|
|
|
Post by wepamperpets on Jan 23, 2011 10:36:30 GMT -5
Looking for a champagne hob. So this breeding season if the breeder has what I'm looking for or I'll have to wait until next breeding season. My friend is breeding her champagne jill (Tipsy's sister) this season so we shall see what she produces and if I like any of the hob kits. I am keeping him intact for his own health and doing the chemical neuter unless the breeder would decide to use him for a litter but thats her choice. Or if he's too wicked like Tipsy was and desi dont work then he'd eventually get neutered. Hope to be able to do the desi in hopes to keep the nasty adrenal away! Hailey for sure would be spayed before the hob comes home! |
|
