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Post by Heather on Jan 30, 2010 0:21:43 GMT -5
Name: Christopher Friesen HF Forum Username: Bassicmelodies 1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? I’ve read about it in a few books, one by animal planet, and a few other places on the internet. The main source of information has come from this forum. 2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret.
I would like to fully switch both of our ferrets to a natural diet. Mainly raw, but I would like to include whole prey and experiment with live prey.
3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?
For the benefit of the ferrets. It would also be convenient to feed the ferrets some of the same sources of meat that we include in our diet. I am personally interested in nutrition for the human body, and am excited to dabble into the realm of nutrition of other mammals.
Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switching your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as committed. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment? Totally willing.
5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight?
We have two ferrets. One male who turns three in March of 2010 and a female who turns two in March of 2010. The male is Sam and the female is Evie (EV). The female has had an issue with the end of her intestines slipping out of her anus. The shelter owner that we received the ferrets from stated that she wasn’t sure as to if it was stress or bacteria related, but that either way she had been treated for it and it was not an issue any longer. We have only had the ferrets since the 15th of January. We are hoping to take them to the vet this week for their first check up. I don’t know typical of healthy weights. The female weighs 1 pound 4.8 ounces. She is a chocolate. The male weighs 2 pounds 2.8 ounces. He is a sable. They are both from Marshall Farms.
6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc)
The Shelter owner sold us some of the kibble that she uses there, which is a combination of some high quality cat, ferret and dog foods. She was pretty insistent about the nutritional benefits of the brands that she had selected, although I could not tell you what they were. We only purchased five pounds, so there isn’t a whole lot here for them. Any references to a kibble for the mean time would be appreciated. As for supplements we have been using Feritone for training purposes e.g. calling, standing on hind legs. We have used a treat from Marshall Farms, Bandits chicken sticks.
7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?
So far we have tried raw chicken liver, cooked chicken liver, breast and eggs and cooked salmon with no success. I’ve tried to use the Feritone (which is very popular with our friends) to coat the meats, but still no luck. I’ve also tried mixing in the salmon with their kibble, but they dig right through for the kibble.
8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?
Here is a link to my member introduction post: holisticferret.proboards.com/inde....lay&thread=4479
9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?
Constantly. Everyday.
10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).
They’re passed out at the moment, they’ve have a long day. I’ll post photos of the two as a reply within the next few days. Thank you so much for your effort to educate the public!
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (Cristina) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey. ciao
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Post by cristina on Jan 30, 2010 16:23:18 GMT -5
Hi there, my name is Cristina and I will be your mentor, welcome to the program! A little about me and my clan: I am 24 yrs old, live in Michigan and I have 3 ferrets. My guys have been on a raw diet for almost 2 years now. Penny was my first little girl whose a 2 yr old sable. Boomer is my little boy whose 2 yrs as well and hes a DEW and is deaf. Mimi is my little shelter baby whose just about 3 yrs old and shes an albino. I am excited to start with you, if you have any thoughts about how you want to go about your switch let me know, you can look though other peoples switching threads for ideas of methods if you like, or I can let you know of some I have done in the past When your ready to start just post!
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Post by bassicmleodies on Jan 31, 2010 22:00:22 GMT -5
Hello Cristina,
I'm excited as well to get this going. I'm curious as to if I should start with a soup since the whole meat isn't attracting them. If a soup is the way to go, should it consist on one type of meat at a time i.e. simply chicken? I figured that I should separate the stew into three groups, one for cold, room temp, and hot. I've also read that eggs (shells included) are a good ingredient to add. My guess at a recipe would be: chicken breast, thigh, eggs in a blender. Would mixing something they're familiar with into the stew be a good idea. They like the ferretone. What are your thoughts?
Thanks so much!
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Post by cristina on Feb 1, 2010 12:14:51 GMT -5
Well I started my switch with soup over kibble and I found at least for my guys it worked well. So if you would like to start with this I would use chicken first (its pretty bland and easy to use in the beginning). I would get some ground chicken then add in what ever else they like (i.e. maybe duk soup or nupro mix if you have it, some oil like salmon or vivify....you can add an egg if you like but they may not take to it just yet so if you want we can try a different soup mix for eggs)
For the start I would suggest the mix be as band as possible so they can get a feel for it....I would simply mix ground chicken with some warm water then mix it in with the kibble, start off a little ground at first and we will see how they react to it and go from there. If they dont eat it then next time add less ground...I literally started with the smallest bit of ground b/c I have some picky eaters haha
Eggs are very good for them, although they are rich so the rule of thumb is about 1 egg per ferret a week. I usually do a "weekly" soup that has added vitamins and supplements for my guys which consists of like nupro soup mix, vivify, ground dehydrated liver, lung and fish (this is a supplement I make) and I also add in like ground egg shells, KMR second step (this kinda adds to bulk them up) and I also put in taurine. So really everyone makes their own "soups" you can add whatever you like in them!
So for their regular daily meals it should consist of the kibble mixed with the water and ground chicken....I'd say twice daily......then from there we can add more and more ground until they start to really like it then move onto more whole meats later on
The only thing Im not big about with ferrettone (which is what you will get alot from others too) is that its really high in sugars so we usually recommend different oils such as salmon, vivify, olive oil and such since these have no additives in them.....but if you feel you like ferretone then by all means its up to you!
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Post by bassicmleodies on Feb 1, 2010 23:32:13 GMT -5
Olive oil? I had no idea. Yeah, we were kind of taken aback by all the odd ingredients to the ferritone. It was what the shelter owner that recommended it to us, so we figured we should start with it. I don't have ground chicken on me right now. So tonight I think we will try chicken breast ground up into water. I'll let you know how it goes! Thanks!
Pt. 2
Alright, today I blended chicken breast with water, and mixed it over kibble both cold and warm. Neither would respond to it. They would stick their heads into the bowl then turn away and refuse to eat it. So my question is, how long to I let them go without food in order to encourage the trial of new diet? They're accustomed to eating whenever because kibble was constantly available. I also tried mixing in ferritone with the warm food, and got no more response. Before adding ferritone I tried giving them both a sample of olive oil. They wouldn't take to that either. Next time I go grocery shopping I'll pick up some fish oil to see if that is better suited.
I have another concern. The male ferret will play rather harshly with the younger female. Now I know that their play is commonly based upon mock combat, but I think it's going too far. The female will hiss out of annoyance knowing where the "play" will lead. He is picking her up by her neck and dragging her around the house, behind the couch if we'd let him. So we've been giving him a time out in the cage whenever we catch this kind of activity. Is this really normal? She is avoiding him at all costs.
I hope all is well. Thanks for your time!
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Post by cristina on Feb 2, 2010 11:47:12 GMT -5
This behavior is very common, my male also plays very rough with his sisters and they hiss as well but he tends to "get it" when they arent up for a battle lol.....so he will start to learn this, they are still fairly young and energetic so this usually calms down, he should catch on....I usually scruff my boy when he gets rough by the neck until he yawns, this seems to calm him down and distracts his attention away from the girls....also when I see him getting rough I usually step in and play with him to distract him as well But this is common behavior, so unless theres blood shed I wouldnt be too worried about it....just try to distract him or calm him down when you notice it
I wouldnt go over a day without them eating, they will go on a hunger strike at times if they want to prove a point...so what I would do maybe in the beginning is wet down the kibble with water alone so get them use to the idea of a more "watery, mushy" texture, then maybe next week we will start adding the blended meat again, which literally can be like a tbls mixed in.....start with the smallest amount
What I did was add in nupro or uncle jims duk soup mix (since most ferrets go crazy for it) and this seemed to help me, so this may be a possibility as well
Olive oil isnt the best but its better than ferretone, b/c its plant based and ideally you want an oil meat based thats why I suggested vivify since its emu oil, but fish oil is good too
My shelter recommended ferretone too, they actually mixed it half with olive oil....I mean its a commercial product that easily obtainable (and ferrets need oils in their diet) so thats probably why they recommend it....its totally up to you though with what you want to use.....I am pretty "holistic" and I love to use the most natural things when it comes to me and my pets so thats just my take on the subject
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Post by bassicmleodies on Feb 6, 2010 0:13:11 GMT -5
Hello Cristina,
I have a few questions. The male has been excreting a "mucus" that has a brownish red some times green tint to it from the butt. Since the ferrets are fairly new to the environment the shelter owner said it was bile and that pepto bismal would help. We've tried this and it got better for a while, then quit. Should we get back on the pepto or try something else? Also, the male has been coughing quite a bit. It's winter here, so I wouldn't think it to be hairballs, but if that is the case how do we go about helping him feel better?
Thanks so much!
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Post by bassicmleodies on Feb 6, 2010 17:33:30 GMT -5
I had another thought. Currently, the food is available all day long. Since the goal is to get them to be raw fed, which is twice a day, should I start restricting kibble to twice a day? Thanks!
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Post by cristina on Feb 7, 2010 15:54:39 GMT -5
ok dont get too worried yet....it could just be the switch, the poop looks funny when the body is ridding the stored kibble, but if it gets worse it may sound like ECE, its not that big of a deal, my guys all had their bouts of it when I brought home my shelter girl who was probably the culprit of bringing it in..I would say to be careful, bring, or even call your vet and let him/her know whats going on and see if they say to bring him in or whatnot if you see it worsen... give it a couple days that is if you dont see other symptoms.......if your worried at all though dont hesitate to give your vet a call, especially if you notice more symptoms! Im thinking though how you explained it that its probably just b/c of the new food that may take their bodies a couple days to get use to
I used to use pepto with my guys all the time when they seem to have really upset tummies...I would keep using it if it works, just keep an eye on the poops and monitor any changes....if it doesnt get beter though Id say bring him in, b/c pepto can only help to an extent and if its constant poops like this then theres probably somehting else there
Also with the cough, maybe it could be a cold or hairball.....I would give him some pumpkin (100% pure pumpkin....NOT pie filling, they can be easy to mix up b/c they look the same, it can be found in a can) If theres any hair stuck in his system this should help remove it naturally, also if you have lax I would give this at least once a day as well. If it persists and doesnt seem to be hair thats bothering, or if it gets worse then call your vet and let them know, then maybe its a cold.
I would leave the food out all day still because this helps them get "use" to it.....you want them to eat as much raw as they want right now so they learn its good.....when we get into chunks and bones we will feed twice a day One thing though, I would make 2 batches of the kibble mix a day, maybe like once in the morning then leave it out until dinner time and make another one then leave it all night until the morning feeding, b/c when kibble gets wet it doesnt have as long as a lifespan as raw meat, it tends to go bad a little faster....plus when its fresh its more appealing for them as well
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Post by bassicmleodies on Feb 8, 2010 11:26:06 GMT -5
Alright, I guess I'm just confused on what I should be concerned over. What are the symptoms to watch out for?
Thanks!
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Post by cristina on Feb 8, 2010 19:29:36 GMT -5
Sorry, sometimes I can be a bit confussing! Its really more so your call, if your ferret doesnt seem "normal" I would at least call your vet and get some info. If it hasnt cleared up in a couple days (which I think u mentioned it has been going on for a couple days now) then just call and ask if its anything to worry about to your vet. The reason I can really help too much with this is b/c I cant see it and I dont know how your ferret normally acts, so its better to be safe then sorry, believe me, I bring my guys into the vet for the smallest things sometimes b/c Im paranoid! Oh and another thing, if you want some great info on everything about ferrets, the book "Ferrets for Dummies" by Kim Schilling (I think its the second edition)...this is my bible literally, it has info about illnesses which comes in handy! Its just an all around great book!
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Post by cristina on Feb 11, 2010 11:53:18 GMT -5
So how are things going?
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Post by bassicmleodies on Feb 14, 2010 3:00:40 GMT -5
Things have been intense recently. We just got both of them treated for ear mites. So we have a secondary appointment with the shelter own in a little over a week to re treat for the bugs. I have been slowly changing the recipe for the food. I'm at the point now where there is a third of a cup of kibble with two tsps. of water, a pump of salmon oil and a little ferritone. The goal is to sub out the ferritone. They are eating the food consistantly. So, starting tomorrow I think I'm going to add a lot more water to the mixture, to get closer to a soup, not just soggy. Then after that I think I'll remove the ferritone from the mixture.
The female is feeling and looking quite a bit better than when we got her. Her tail hair has gotten thicker along with the rest of her coat. She is gaining weight as well. As a result she is starting to hold her own in play between the two. Litter training has been a challenge. We got a second litter box for the rest of the house. The female will move the box to drop waste where the box was. They're getting better. We've been putting them in the cage when the disappoint and treat them when they're good. Slowly but surely they're figuring it out.
The male's poop is really inconsistent. Some days its green, others brown, then it can show signs of poor digestion, with bile and then recently its been really dark, sometimes black (which if I understand correctly thats a sign of ulcers.) If it doesn't stabilize soon we're going to head to the vet. The coughing isn't very common. They have been chewing at my shoes, so I think they started eating what they chewed off. So I removed the shoes from their reaches and the coughing stopped.
I'm not sure as to how much they should be eating. I don't think as much as they should. Sometimes they won't eat even the third of a cup between the two of them.
So thats whats been up. Thanks for the concern!
EDIT:
So I've done some more reading and I'm convinced that Sam has an ulcer. I think it got worse than it should have because of the fact that I wasn't giving pepto consistently enough (.25 tsp 4x daily). Also, duck soup is on the agenda for tomorrow. This also explains why there hasn't been as much food consumption as in the past. (along with the feces issues)
I'll keep in touch!
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Post by cristina on Feb 14, 2010 17:22:46 GMT -5
Thats a good idea getting them use to the "mush" then it will be easier when you start to add in ground with it.....just keep going with weaning them off the ferretone, if they are getting salmon oil they dont really need any other source of oil (having 2 oils may be part of the reason for inconsistant poops since oil is rich and it may just go through his system fast)
When my guys had ECE they had these same poop changes, so I would mention that to the vet as well just to rule it out......about ulcers, (I know this may be kinda gross) if you pinch some of the black poop between a paper towel you can tell if theres blood in it (which is caused by ulcers) if its red then its blood and I would def call your vet! Although I have had some black poops with one ferret that werent red just a very dark blackish goop, so this helped rule out ulcers.
Coughing could deffinitely be due to chewing on things they shouldnt, if you suspect this then make sure it doesnt cause a blockage b/c these are very common with ferrets, to help and/or prevent blockages use a laxative: either pure pumpkin or any of the commercial lax's for ferrets (although like I mentioned these are very high in sugar so pumpkin is a better choice although whatever you want to use will do)
If their weight changes then take a step back and add less water to the kibble mix, although usually ferrets overeat kibble, so it may not seem like they are eating alot when in reality it may be all they need to maintain their normal weight, or they could be eating less until they get "use" to the fact their diet is changing....so just pay attention to their weights
**If you are this sure this may be an ulcer, bring your ferret into the vet ASAP.....ulcers can be very dangerous in ferrets especially since they are so small! So if this is how you feel then dont second guess yourself, go with your gut!**
Im going to get my ferret book and look up info about ulcers, then I will update after I read about it so I can provide you with more information if needed.....Id rather be safe than sorry!
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Post by cristina on Feb 14, 2010 17:36:05 GMT -5
So I am reading the book "ferrets for dummies" and I was looking at the symptoms you were describing and I wanted to mention a few things here (what it could be and their symptoms): Intestinal and stomach blockages Symp: tiny poops, black or tary stool loss of appetite loss of weight pawing at mouth dehydration teeth grinding face rubbing * now these are only a few but I feel they may be pertinant for you to see Ulcers symp: lethargy tender belly pale gums bad breath *then the same symptoms as above for blockages So either way both of these issues need to be addressed with a vet asap!!! so just bring him, like I said better safe than sorry! also..... If you think it may be a blockage then call your vet immediately (especially when you see thin stools, like thin rope) this is fatal if not taken care of asap and could require surgery if it gets bad....dont panic though just give the office a call and explain your worries Let me know how things go! I really hope it turns out to be nothing though!
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