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Post by katt on Nov 17, 2010 4:46:51 GMT -5
I take it back. He just pooped and it is very seedy. It might have been the buffalo treat passing through? For tonight's dinner I gave him ground lamb, with less than 1/4 ground buffalo mixed in, a teeny tiny pinch of flax seed, and about a tsp of squash baby food. I forgot to get more pumpkin. I wish they sold mini cans of it. haha
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Post by mustelidmusk on Nov 17, 2010 9:28:26 GMT -5
you can always freeze the pumpkin in ice cube trays, small tubs, etc. pop the cubes out of the trays/tubs and put them in freezer bags.
Seediness may be the bison - similar to beef. you may learn that the bison is something that you can feed a bit of for a day or two,. But is may be one of the items that needs to be offer in limited quantity and frequency. Poops may be a bit seedy. But here is where the enzymes can help ...this is somewhat a pain-in-the-butt. Pantreatic enzymes (pancreatin) are porcine-based enzymes that help break down meats. They need to be put on the meats at least a half hour in advance of feeding. Here is how I used them.....when I make up a dish of food , I prepare the following meal with the enzymes as well. Example. It's night time and you've just prepared Koda's dinner. You know you will be feeding a bit of buffalo tomorrow in with the regular foods. Portion out the ground buffalo ad mix 1/8-1/4 capsule of the enzymes in the buffalo. cover.wrap the buffalo (or entire meal and put it in the fridge over night. The enzymes work to start breaking down the proteins and fats before the meat is even consumed. This allows Koda to get more nutrients from food that will otherwise tend to "go right through him" half digested. This can help with "IBD flare-ups, foods that "work" for Koda in small quantity but tend to produce seedy poops, etc.
Even if bison tends to give Koda trouble, a bite of the lungs may be fine for foraging treats since its freeze-dried and fed in as a treat. Lungs seem to be a favorite with ferrets (especially chewers) - they seem to like the texture of them as well as the taste.
Flax vs. pumpkin. The flax is more of a "roughage thing" to help condition the bowel. It's similar to undigested fur, bone bits, etc. These items tend to "scrub"/"'massage" the intestines, which helps maintain healthy elasticity to the tissues. The Pumpkin will be better at absorbing excess liquid in the stool. So, both items can be used together, and they serve a different purpose. Some ferrets do well will a little flax seed only. Others do not. That will be another TBD as we learn how Koda responds to different things.
-jennifer
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Post by katt on Nov 19, 2010 15:50:07 GMT -5
His poops on the bison seem to be ok. A bit dark though. Are dark poops ok? I haven't had the chance to look too closely, but it seems like they are just dark, not bloody. Well formed, but shiny like they have a lot of mucous perhaps, but not enough to be goopy... what does that mean? Is it ok to feed him the bison if it makes his poops like that? I mean they are not really bad per say...
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Post by sherrylynne on Nov 19, 2010 17:53:55 GMT -5
Mine tend to get really dark stool on both bison and beef, or any really blood rich meats.
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Post by katt on Nov 19, 2010 19:31:50 GMT -5
But is that okay for Koda? Or is it a "bad" thing and something I should limit? His poops aren't sloppy (yet) so I really want to be able to have this as something in his diet if I can. I think after the bison and turkey are gone I will try some pork, then some beef and chicken...
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Post by sherrylynne on Nov 19, 2010 19:58:07 GMT -5
I could well be wrong, but I'm thinking if beef/bison normally causes a dark stool for other ferrets, then it would stand to reason that it would also be normal for Koda to have dark stool from them. I don't think the dark colour in itself would be a problem.
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Post by katt on Nov 19, 2010 20:45:12 GMT -5
I could well be wrong, but I'm thinking if beef/bison normally causes a dark stool for other ferrets, then it would stand to reason that it would also be normal for Koda to have dark stool from them. I don't think the dark colour in itself would be a problem. Ok, that is what I was hoping to hear! I upped the amount a little bit last night, so we'll see what things look like after work here in a bit... I also picked up 17 rabbit kits today. A bit overpriced (they were smaller than I thought - just a bit bigger than an adult mouse) but still relatively affordable. Per rabbit. I am excited to be able to feed those. I think for the sake of stretching them out though, I will limit it to one every 2 weeks or so. Unless I can get my rat lady to get some in for a decent price, then I could feed them more often... we'll see though.
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Post by mustelidmusk on Nov 19, 2010 22:29:39 GMT -5
The darker stool is not a problem...the shiny/mucous part may be an issue in that it's OK now, but if you fee bison for several days, the probelm may get worse. Are you still adding the ground flax? Are you still adding pumpkin? If not, Koda may do better with the bison when some pumpkin and flax are added into the mix. A pinch of ground egg shell is another option with the other stuff. 1/4 capsule of reishi may quiesce any mlid allergic/inflammatory response. Also, the pancreatic enymes may help with the bison as well.
Feel free to try some of these things with the bison/beef and/or the things that Koda is less tolerant of. Be sure to let me know what you try an what seems to help/hurt.
Koda has been doing pretty well since he got over his big episode...I've been really pleased with his progress so far. There is a particular type of IBD that som vets feel is 100% food allergy. Of course a ferret may have more than one type of IBD going on. Watch Koda carefully on the bison and beef the beef seemed to bother Koda quite a bit before. He may not be able to handle much of the stuff for very long.
-jennifer
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Post by katt on Nov 22, 2010 5:47:46 GMT -5
Well the enzymes certainly seem to help! I think that I will still have to limit the buffalo (and probably beef too I would imagine) but at least he can have it! I want to try chunks soon, I am tired of feeding so much ground - I don't want his pearly white fangs to get all gunky! I gave him 2 frozen mice tonight which he is having a (noisy) blast with, and for tomorrow I have a thing in the fridge of nearly equal parts lamb, turkey, and buffalo with some enzyme in it. We will see how that goes. He did ok with lamb chunks, but it is hard to find lamb meat here. They just have teeny tiny shoulders or ground. Maybe I will try turkey chunks next? Or perhaps some pork? If I go pork, should I try ground, or chunks?
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Post by mustelidmusk on Nov 22, 2010 9:51:51 GMT -5
I recommend that when you feed the stuff that's harder for Koda to deal with, feed those items ground or chopped into small bits with pancreatic enzymes mixed in. You may want to chop the other meats on days you feed things like beef/buffalo so Koda's gut receives the buffalo in diluted form (i.e., no "gut bombs"!)
Use the pancreatic enzymes when Koda is having trouble or when he's eating things that bug hm.
Are Koda's poops always kind of seedy? If so, some fungal enzymes or plant based enzymes can help....You may be able to get away with cheaper enzymes and improve nutrient absorption even when Koda is not having issues.
go ahead and feed some chunks of stuff Koda does well on. Experimenting is key to understanding Koda's individual needs.
Gotta run, jennifer
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Post by katt on Nov 22, 2010 12:43:41 GMT -5
Should I add some of the mushroom stuff then? The Reishi? I am trying to only change one thing at a time so we know exactly what caused any changes.
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Post by mustelidmusk on Nov 22, 2010 20:49:44 GMT -5
I started feeding the reishi daily as a general immune health thing. It seemed to help with inflammatory issues, so you can add the reishi daily for a while to see if it helps at all.
If it's not making a big difference in digestive health, you may still want to add it periodically because it does have anti-cancer properties.
-jennifer
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Post by katt on Nov 22, 2010 22:35:51 GMT -5
How much of it should I give each day/meal?
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Post by mustelidmusk on Nov 22, 2010 23:48:26 GMT -5
I've been giving 1/2 to 1 capsule daily to the 4 bats. Of course, I miss days here and there too.
For one ferret, a 1/4 capsule per day will be fine. If you can split that 1/4 into two meals, that would make the taste be less noticable. My brats like mushrooms. I'll give them a little bit of fresh shiitake whenever I buy them for dinner. When they get fresh shiitake, this will replace their reishi.
-jennifer
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Post by katt on Nov 23, 2010 2:53:14 GMT -5
Ok! I added about 1/3 or so of a capsule to the food. I will give a little more with the next meal. He got turkey, buffalo, and lamb tonight so we'll see how his belly does with 2 iffy foods (with pancreatin and reishi). Also, we had nachos for dinner (yum!) so I saved some of the ground beef to try next... *crosses fingers*
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