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Post by katt on Nov 12, 2010 19:53:54 GMT -5
Turkey/lamb/rabbit poops are looking even better today. This afternoon I gave him a higher % of turkey in the mix so I'll see how he feels tonight.
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Post by mustelidmusk on Nov 12, 2010 22:24:35 GMT -5
IBD can be really strange in that some ferrets do best with a base of one or two meats with other meats rotating slowly in and out with another meat rotating in as the other meat is rotated out - sounds weird, but some ferts seem to require change on a constant basis as long as change is SLOW. If you keep them on the same thing all the time, they tart getting issues. If you switch them suddenly, their guts hate it.
For example, you may find you can add turkey and increase it up to a certain point. Once the poop starts to decline in quality, you may find that reducing the turkey slowly and adding a bit of a different meat in place of the turkey will work well. when the other meat starts giving trouble, you can slowly rotate it out while rotating something different back in. You may find Koda can tolerate a small amount of beef and/or chicken this way.
Yes, this seems complicated but once you get used to what Koda needs, you'll find it gets to be second nature.
-jennifer
My current 4 seem to do really well on a base with a few different meats rotating in and out.
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Post by miamiferret2 on Nov 12, 2010 22:31:42 GMT -5
i know how you feel. it is very frustrating. it seems that something will work for a little while and then it will stop working and the IBD comes back. my ferret had IBD. he started showing very subtle symptoms at around age 5. it started out with just gas issues. one of his gas episodes cost us over $400.00 in tests because he wouldn't move and wouldn't eat soi had to force feed him for four days and he would just fall over onto his side from gas pains. after all the tests all the vet could see was "alot of gas" on an x-ray. on the fourth day, he farted SO much he would startle himself. i think i realized what was going on one day when he had his second "gas" episode after he ate a honey nut cheerio that had fallen on the floor. that was another 3 day gas ordeal. but mostly it was a gradual decline. in the end, it just kept getting worse and worse. at age 7 we started seeing seedy stools on and off. then at around 7 and 1/2 we started seeing REALLY seedy mucousy stools. then came the runny/water diarrhea which was so bad that the vet told us to give him pepto AND children's imodium! then came the bloody diarrhea, bloody loose stools, black and tarry stools, etc. etc. we tried everything but it just kept coming back. we changed his food, tested him for parasites, colitis, hairballs, and treated him with many different antibiotics. the ONLY thing that would help him was chloramphenicol and the vet could never figure out why the chlor would help him and nothing else would. we had "good patches" where he would do well for a while but then it always came back. i found that the most important thing with the IBD was to keep him CALM. whenever he was stressed, his stools became worse. it got to the point where we had the vet come to our house once a month to give him his lupron shot and draw blood because we didn't want to stress him out. even with the vet making house calls, we always noticed that his stools would get worse during the few days after the vet came over. so don't get discouraged. just keep trying new things. unfortunately i had to put my boy to rest on 9/22/10 when he was 8 yrs and 1 month. not because of the IBD though. he had advanced adrenal disease and insulinoma had gotten to the point where we could not control his BG with both diazoxide and prednisone. i miss him terribly.
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Post by katt on Nov 13, 2010 22:19:52 GMT -5
I;m sorry about your loss Koda seems to be doing better on turkey-lamb-rabbit than just on Lamb-Rabbit. The poops have some more green in them, but much less yellow. They are solid and well formed though. Tonight I will try to increment the amount of turkey more, he's eating about 50% turkey atm. I want to try chinks at some point too. I don't like feeding all ground meats. He needs his chunks and bones. When should i try the flax seed, and when should I try the next meat?
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Post by mustelidmusk on Nov 14, 2010 0:55:28 GMT -5
You can add a small pinch of flax seed any time. start SMALL. This will be similar to the contents of a rodent's stomach only healthier since most mouse food is starchier than flax. True, ferrets avoid the intestinal tract when food is super plentiful. But that's not a common occurrence in the wild. Try a small bit of flax for a few days. You may see no improvement with the flax given in small amounts. But if all goes well, hold the flax to the same small amount. you can then start to slowly rotate out one of the meats and rotate something else in - such as the pork again. You can try rotating out a meat that's more difficult to get (or expensive). You can also give a small bit of the freeze-dried lamb - try two pieces, one piece inside either side of the "organic foraging cup". Be sure to set this up in the MORNING unless you don't like to sleep . If Koda likes the freeze-dried and learns to raid the cup for his treats, you can wedge the treats in tighter so he ha a greater challenge to occupy his time in the cage. -jennifer
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Post by katt on Nov 15, 2010 4:18:20 GMT -5
I gave Koda a little over 1/2, like... 2/3 to 3/4 turkey today. his poop is worse, but not terrible. I also gave a tiny pinch of flax seed too. I will decrease the turkey but keep the flax and see what that does.
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Post by mustelidmusk on Nov 15, 2010 10:42:49 GMT -5
Good plan....one of my first two ferrets that had the IBD did well with the flax seed, but Heather has had a different experience with it. That's the strange part about IBD - lots of trial and error...all ferrets are different. I've known people with IBD - some do better with roughage, but some do worse. AT least flax seed can be fed to the meeces if it doesn't help Koda -jennifer
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Post by Heather on Nov 15, 2010 13:50:46 GMT -5
That's the biggest and most frustrating thing about IBD, nothing absolutely nothing is consistent....other than the frustration ciao
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Post by katt on Nov 16, 2010 0:25:32 GMT -5
Koda had 2 small, icky poops tonight. They were green and seedy. Then, fora while now he has been running to the poop box off and on and trying to go potty with no luck. He keeps trying, and sniffing the spot like he thinks there should be a poop there and looks confused when there is not. At one point, he had what seems to be a tiny bit of mucous in the litter box, but no poop. He did finally pee. But still no poop. I will give him some vaseline when we get home tonight and see if that helps. He was licking himself a lot last night, so maybe he is starting to shed?
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Post by katt on Nov 16, 2010 1:25:09 GMT -5
He is still trying with no luck. I am starting to worry.
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Post by katt on Nov 16, 2010 5:55:07 GMT -5
*sigh* I feel like a bad ferrent today. I think I know a few potential reasons Koda is having trouble. The first is that, when we got home from Shane's and I went to clean out his feeding den I realized that... a) he has torn the mat in his cage to shreds, there was yarn all over under the mat - I hope he didn't eat any, 2) I was in a rush this morning and just did a quick glance in his cage and saw that he had food so I ran off to class, but I forgot to check the food to be sure it was still good. it wasn't. At least not tonight, I assume that it wasn't too great this morning either. 3) between last night, and whatever playing he had done today, he had pretty much managed to dump all of the water out of his dish. There was just a tiny bit left, and what was in there had food and litter in it...how, I do not know. The litter box is on the opposite end of the cage, and the food is mostly in his den. Anyways, what that basically tells me is he didn't eat today, he possibly didn't drink (until we got to Shane's he had water there), and he might have eaten some yarn. Great. I gave him some Vaseline and ferretvite (yummy lol) and some freeze dried lamb. I figured the fiber in the freeze dried, and the Vaseline ought to help clear out any potential yarn, and will be gentle on his belly. I will try flax and whatnot again tomorrow evening. I just feel so bad because he has enough belly issues as it is, and then one rushed morning and I make him miserable for the day. I will give him more freeze dried lamb in the morning, and then if he looks good I will try small amount of turkey, and a little flax. I think I will feed just a small bit of turkey until what I have is gone (it isn't too much, but maybe a week or two's worth at less than 1/2 turkey per meal). Then I will try bison. And maybe turkey chunks. On the bright side, I found someone selling 17 frozen rabbit kits for $50 on craigslsit. They are about the size of a small rat according to the add, so the perfect size for Koda! That comes out to about $3 a rabbit, not too shabby. And then he will have some whole rabbit to add to the menu.
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Post by mustelidmusk on Nov 16, 2010 9:44:00 GMT -5
I think we have all made some feeding mistakes, had a water bottle go dry or "bleed out", etc. We are human and humans are NOT perfect.
The fact that my life gets so hectic is a primary reason why I always have freeze-dried raw around. When things go nuts and I don't have time to deal with the normal routine, out comes the freeze-dried raw! It cannot live without it. I can go on vacation for 2 weeks and the stuff is still good when I come back.
Anyway, just keep an eye on Koda in case he ingested a little yarn/fabric. Usually a small amount of fabric/yarn just comes out with no trouble. It' the spongy and rubbery stuff that's really bad.
Also, putting some of the freeze-dried raw in the foraging cups will keep Koda occupied and distracted from his vices. Initially make that bright green transparent cup easy to open by making the cylinders almost perfectly aligned with the notch. He'll learn that he can open up the cup this way.
The bison lungs are great for ferrets that like to chew things - the texture is different. parts of the lungs are harder and will clean teeth well. Other parts are "lighter" - My kids love these things....as always , start out with a small piece. small bit work well in the foraging cups. (I use lungs in the dark green one).
-jennifer
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Post by katt on Nov 16, 2010 18:08:50 GMT -5
A feeding mistake is one thing, a feeding mistake that makes his belly hurt is another. Good news though, this morning he had some nice solid poops. And I put the foraging toys in with some freeze dried lamb. Maybe I'll try those buffalo chips tonight and see if he likes them, and if they will hurt his belly or not.
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Post by mustelidmusk on Nov 16, 2010 23:26:19 GMT -5
like with the other foods, introduce it slowly. he bison will be closer to beef. And since they are high protein and low fat, they are more of a snack for foraging than a meal. Lamb lungs are also available. Bison lungs may offer a different protein source. Lungs are a favorite in my house and they are cheaper than a lot of other freeze-dried treats.
How are the poop doing in terms of seediness? Stools can still be solid but seedy with undigested fats.
-jennifer
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Post by katt on Nov 17, 2010 2:13:01 GMT -5
Better actually. He had some really nice poops today on the freeze dried. I gave him a small piece of the bison wafer He Loved it! Anyways, I ran out of rabbit meat so for dinner tonight I was going to try ground lamb, with a small amount of ground bison. See how that goes for 2 days or so, and add some turkey in maybe. Or maybe a few bites of turkey tonight too, I haven't decided...
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