Jakk's Switching Thread

[sherrylynne]

The mouse would be a good idea. If he doesn't take to it right off, you can get pinkies, and chop them into the regular meat, and gradually go up in piece size till he's eating it whole.
Do they actually eat the bone from the thigh, or the rib? They do need bone consumption at least 3-4 days a week.
Organ consumption looks good. Variety, with a different meat will be good, too.

[Jakk]

They eat all the bones in the wings and thighs. the veal bones are a little thick. I didn't think that it would be okay for them to eat because of the bone's size and density. I got some boneless pork neck at a local market, I ma going to see if they will eat it tomorrow.

I had to hand feed Kasrah and force her to eat at least soup, she threw it up twice.

[sherrylynne]

You're right- the veal bones are too large, and not safe for them. It's too easy to chip a tooth.
As for Kasrah- you might want to take her to the vet for a checkup if she doesn't start eating herself soon.

[Jakk]

I took her to the vet on Tuesday, got an x-ray of her abdomen and the vet confirmed that she has a mass in her abdomen that is a growth not a blockage. But I can't afford a surgery and the vet didn't think it would be worth the risks to do anything but let Kasrah live as long as nature intends. She is at least eating soup and small chunks this week, which ends the hunger strike she was attempting.

I gave some pork for dinner to cooper and polly. Polly ate a little before cooper stole it and stashed it all. But nobody threw up and they seemed to see it as food instead of thier crazy first reaction. I gave chop the first time and i used boneless neck this time, maybe they like the higher fat content of the neck cut?

[sherrylynne]

I am so sorry to hear about Kasrah. If you post this in the health section, some of the members who are into the whole holistic thing might be able to give you some good info on what might help her feel better.
And with Polly and Cooper, it's possible it's just the fact that pork was a little too different in taste and texture for them first time round. Or- it could be the fat content! Really no way to tell with these little ones.

[Jakk]

I posted it but didn't get much feed back. My SO thinks that maybe we should take her in to the vet to put her out of any misery next week since she still won't eat on her own.

Cooper and Polly are scarfing down pork like it is no big deal. I am going to stick with the neck cut for a while since they seem to like it.

[sherrylynne]

I don't know if this will help Kasrah or not, but someone on the Ferret Health List has given me the recipe for Essiac Tea for ferrets who aren't doing well. I have to go to work now, but will send it to you later.
If she's not eating, though, it may have to be syringe fed.

[Jakk]

I would love to get the recipe for the tea for Cooper and Polly should they (God forbid) ever need it. My SO made the appointment yesterday for later tonight to bring Kasrah in for a final check and to be put to sleep if the vet suggests it. She still won't eat and is skin and bones (was skinny when she came back to us), she isn't responding unless we get up really close and nearly force her to respond. Cooper and Polly won't go near her and tense up and get rather angry if I try to get them to be close.

-- in food related news --
Cooper and Polly will eat pork neck, all different beef cuts, all different chicken cuts (skin, fat, and bone included), organ meats and muscles are treated with a little caution but still eaten, and eggs are a classic favorite (I give quail eggs instead of chicken--seems like a better food size:ferret size ratio)

I have a freezer system that works FINALLY. All food is broken down into servings in ziplocks then put in the freezer in the order it is going to be fed for the next two weeks. I have the bag for the first day in the fridge and once that is fed the next days portion moved from the freezer to the fridge and is thawed by feeding time the next day. rinse and repeat

I got permission to try mice with both little ones from my SO. His only rules are that mice can only happen once or twice a month, when he is not home, and all remnants must be cleaned up before he gets home. He thinks that eating a creature we have kept as pets before spoils the innocence of our little carnivores. So I am going to pick up some pinkies from the local reptile store and try them out sometime in the near future...well...when I can FIND a reptile supply somewhat decent distance from me. I don't think the concierge desk at my apartment will appreciate frozen mice being shipped to me from an on-line distributer lol.

[sherrylynne]

I am so sorry about Kasrah. I think she just might be telling you it's time for her to go to the bridge, as difficult as that may be. d**n! I hate that they live such a short time!
AS for the pinkies- you may find you need to chop them up and mix them in with the regular meat. That's the only way mine would accept them at first. Your's might be different. With Cooper especially- who knows! I'll pm you the recipe for the essiac tea. It's fairly long, with all the info, so that might be easier.
Ok, can you write me up an official menu for the week? I think it's time for you to graduate
I'll go over it with you, then get Heather and Guili to give it the ok in it's final form, and away you go!

[Jakk]

For both Cooper and Polly:

MORNING:
Monday -1/3 cup beef
Tuesday - 2 chicken wings
Wednesday -1/3 cup pork neck
Thursday -1 chicken thigh
Friday -1/3 cup veal OR lamb
Saturday - 1/3 cup pork neck
Sunday -1/3 cup beef

EVENING:
Monday -2 chicken hearts
Tuesday -1 cup soup
Wednesday -2 yolks + bone meal
Thursday -1 cup soup
Friday -1/2 cup beef liver
Saturday -2 yolks + bone meal
Sunday -1 cup soup

[sherrylynne]

Wow! You're guys don't eat much, do they?
Do they actually eat the bone from the thigh and necks? And if you can, I'd like to see the amount of heart upped a bit for the extra taurine.

[Jakk]

I have tried to get them to eat more but they just leave it in the bowl or Cooper stashes it and it ends up spoiling. I was a little worried that they were eating so little but both are well muscled and have a good layer of body fat. I have some good "before" photos and I am going to take some photos tonight and post them in the before and after section.

They do eat the bones in the chicken thighs, I crack them right before I serve the thigh whole so they remember that they are good eats. I get the pork neck without bones since I think that the pork bones would be to dense and damage their teeth.

For both Cooper and Polly:

MORNING:
Monday -1/3 cup beef
Tuesday - 2 chicken wings
Wednesday -1/3 cup pork neck
Thursday -1 chicken thigh
Friday -1/3 cup veal OR lamb
Saturday - 1/3 cup pork neck
Sunday -1/3 cup beef

EVENING:
Monday -2 chicken hearts
Tuesday -1 cup soup
Wednesday -2 yolks + bone meal
Thursday -2 chicken hearts
Friday -1/2 cup beef liver
Saturday -2 yolks + bone meal
Sunday -1 cup soup

[sherrylynne]

Ok, chicken heart for taurine is looking good. They need 3-4 days, or 6-8 meals a week of bone in with bone they'll actually eat. I've no doubt they look a lot better than they did!
But after a few months of not having enough calcium and trace minerals, it'll start to show in their nails, and enough calcium is needed for bones strong enough to support the increased activity, and muscles. Also, they can start having very loose stools, which can in turn trigger a recurring prolapse(this is what happened to one of mine. It acts up when she's stressed, or not eaten enough bone)

Here's an example of mine:

Monday- bone in(chicken wings, rabbit, quail, duck, turkey neck. Whichever baggie I grab)
Tuesday- muscle meat(goat, lamb, turkey meat boneless, pork, beef, chicken or beef heart)
Wednesday- whole prey(mice, rats)
Thursday- bone in
Friday- muscle meat
Saturday- whole prey
Sunday am- liver and organ(usually kidney), pm- whatever I have the most of! Either bone, muscle, whole prey.

Whole prey is also considered a bone in meal. I've also gotten a bit lazy! I put the bone in meats in the same section of the freezer, and the muscle meats in another. They literally get whichever baggie I grab out, depending on whether it's a bone in day, or a muscle meat day

[Jakk]

For both Cooper and Polly:

MORNING:
Monday -1/3 cup beef/pork/veal
Tuesday - 2 chicken wings
Wednesday -1/3 cup beef/pork/veal
Thursday -1 chicken thigh
Friday -1/3 cup beef/pork/veal
Saturday - 2 chicken wings
Sunday - rotated every other week - 1 chicken thigh OR whole prey (if I can get them to eat it)

EVENING:
Monday -2 chicken hearts
Tuesday -1 cup soup
Wednesday -2 yolks + bone meal
Thursday -2 chicken hearts
Friday -1/2 cup beef liver
Saturday -2 yolks + bone meal
Sunday -1 cup soup

[Jakk]

here is the post I made in the before&after photo thread (the text is a link)

Cooper's change caught me off guard, I totally forgot what he looked like when we brought him home. Polly's is hard to see but her stance has changed and she is more bulky that the first shot where is you look close you can see that her body all dents inwards to the bones.