Seventh heaven goes raw

[ferretpalooza]

Ha Ha, thanks for letting me know Im not the only one with limited finances......Ill stick with the goodies from the store. Eventually these guys will get the balanced nutrition they need. They are all healthy and like I said, Max was my skinny one and he is much, much better now so we'll keep plugging along where we are.

[Heather]

That's the way I look at it too I have to make you aware of all your options though
You're guys are doing really well, so I would keep things basically the same as they are with only making minor adjustments to take them closer to your goal.
ciao

[Forum Administrator]

I'm really proud of you for sticking with this! Keep up the great work! I'm so excited for you!

[ferretpalooza]

We're still here and the same. The past couple of days have been crazy with work and they had a vet appt yesterday for distemper shots. They ran out of kibble Sunday night (bad mama.....ha ha, I dont check it as closely as I used to!!), but they did have a bowl of cut up freeze dried chicken and beef strips with a little kibble dust on them. That was almost all gone!!!! All ferrets weights are up from the last appt in Dec, when they were all in together for ECE. Bear in mind the last weigh in was winter weight!!!! Max is up half a lb. from two months age when he got his dental. I would have thought more, but his body mass has changed and the boniness is disappearing. Anyway, we are still doing soup and chunks with dried, fresh slices always available. I did take a section of a chicken wing this morning and sliced pieces of meat away and broke it in half to expose them to the marrow and meat. I was putting it in everyones face this moring and tapping it on their noses...ha ha ha...........ok, noone was impressed and noone bit it. Hee hee, well they cant say they never saw one now. Anyway, Ill play with a section each day and continue the soupie chunks and slices. My schedule is real busy the last couple of days so they arent going to do much different cause they get mad when they get extra cage time on my heavy days.

[Heather]

Sounds like your guys are doing really well. Congratulations It's awful when life gets in the way doesn't it . I would keep things going the way you've been going, especially when you're this busy. You know your guys will eat this way. So when you've got a little more space to breath then we'll proceed forward. I would be tempted, if all your guys are eating the soupy and meats to remove the kibble for a time period during the day. I removed kibble from my guys during the day and then allowed them to have it at night. I wouldn't do this while your busy though. Wait until things slow down a little and you can devote more of your attention to the project I will check in with you tomorrow and see if you've had time to post
Don't work too hard...keep feeding those little fuzzbutts
ciao

[ferretpalooza]

I managed to get up early enough this morning to have morning play again. I can pretty much get them back on schedule through the weekend so Ill take the kibble tomorrow. I think Boudreaux has quit eating the soup and meat. What a punk. They still get treats and 8 in 1 soft as a treat when they get out and they all sit there and eat like they are starving, except Big B goes around stealing anyones stuff who isnt looking........LOL They weights are not down and they always have frest meat available. The kibble has been in there so are they in a transition to not wanting to kibble but not yet wanting the meat enough? I have them all screwed up now!!!!! LOL They get plenty of nutrition in the soup and everyone is quite active so Im not worried. Im going to get some small amounts of some type of beef, lamb and pork and start leaving some different very small chunks of that also. I think they are going to need to be a little hungry to start forcing them to eat a little more meat. They are starting to play me now.......Pfffftttt!!!!!

[Heather]

I would for the time being drop the treats. You can go back to offering them once the food of choice has been established. Iknow you don't want to be the meany but as long as they have their treats they're still leaning towards the kibbles. I never use treats, unless it's meat. I use gibblets.
Are you going to take the kibbles away entirely or for just a period of time during the day or night. I would be more inclined to do that than take it away all together. You still have some holdouts and I would be concerned that they're not getting enough food. I might be tempted to maybe attempt the no kibbles over the weekend, where you would be there to supervise and feed the ones who decide not to eat. When I take the kibbles away, I hand feed 3x a day just to make sure they all have eaten.
I would say you probably have a couple who are eating predominantly raw and probably a couple who are chewing raw a bit but still using the kibbles as their main food. That's why you're not seeing as much of the kibbles going but still not all of your raw. Getting Boudreaux back on track (he was eating raw right?) will probably be easier than it was the first time. I warned you that they would probably backslide a bit as this excersise progresses. If you check some of the other threads you will see that you're not the only one who has had fuzzies who get second thoughts about giving up their kibbles. The idea is to hit him with the raw and not allow him to get his own way, this time.
If your guys start to balk at the variety of meats you're feeding I might be tempted to stick with one protein source (the one that most eat) and see if that works better.
I will pop in tomorrow before I head out to work.
ciao

[ferretpalooza]

Well, I got the ferrets up this morning and they all went straight to the treat box...LOL I made a bowl of soup and cut up a chicken thigh real small and made it real chunky. They all came over to eat. Everyone ate some chunks(a lot of hand feeding and some scruffing involved). There were some carried off and deposited in different places but the dogs keep a keen eye on them and take care of that. Buster went over and pulled the treat bowl out of the cat box and started banging it on the floor and I put the rest of the chunks in there....ha ha Then I took a chicken leg from a wing I defrosted and cut the main meat off to put in a bowl of soup for the day. So the bone just had remnants on it. I broke it in half where the marrow was exposed and scruffed each ferret and made them bite the bone a few times with the back teeth. Guess what? Boudreuax snatched the bone from me and ran under the recliner with it!!!!! He sat there for 15 minutes sucking as much marrow as he could and chewing on it a little. I watched him get small piece of fat hanging off and he was shaking the bone in the air trying to get it off!!!! A few of the other ferret came over to watch the show!!!! He finally stashed it by one of the toys. I made another batch of chunky soup with less soup and more fresh chicken. I put the other half of the chicken bone, a wing tip broke in half with all the meat sliced and hanging and a small beef rib bone with remnants of meat sliced and hanging off of it on the side of the bowl if anyone got curious/interested. I got Boudreaux's bone and put it at the door of the feeding den/box on the bottom shelf. I also put just a touch of cream in the mix. They have been out for a while so a couple of them lapped at the soup but mostly they went to bed. I showed Boudreaux the bone by the door so he knows its there. I took the kibble out of the cage for the day. So we will see what happens today. They did not get to gorge on treats this morning so the tummies may be a little hungrier today. They all ate a few chunks this morning. I am happy!

**EDIT*** PM-The ferrets staged a hunger strike today!!! Noone ate!! I got all the chicken, made some fresh soup and everyone but Buster ate. I scruffed him and he had steel trap jaws. He is holding out till the end. So after soup, still some chicken left but it goes to the dogs at night. Its ok for fresh chicken to be out all day if the Temp is 70 degrees isnt it??? Doesnt smell funky. Ill give them kibble back tonight and we will continue taking it away during the day with soup/fresh choices. They need to see this will be continued.

[Heather]

Yea Boudreax, you've got it right there boy . You're guys have hit the stage that they recognise that it's food but they're still not sure about it. They're holding out in hopes that you will resort to giving in and letting have their treats and kibbles back Sitting with them and feeding them and even scruffing them and feeding them, helps them get the idea that this is their food.
The chicken should be fine. My guys eat it all the time....they've even found a stash that had become jerky and it didn't hurt them . Ferrets are geared to handle this stuff. You go girl, put your foot down and show those little carpet sharks you mean business. You're doing this so they can have a better life (at least a healthier one).
I think what you have planned for them (your feeding schedule) will work very well. Were you ever able to get Buster to eat anything? If you go to the side of their jaw, where the upper and lower jaw joins, there's a spot (the same spot that both cats, dogs...have. It's just up from where the jaw hinges, you can very gently apply pressure and they will unlock their jaws. I've used this to open the jaws of a ferret that had latched on to my hand. He had bitten me to the bone and I really needed him to let go. He was scared and I didn't want to scare him more by resorting to some of the more extreme methods that people use to get ferrets to let go. I learned about this spot when I was pilling my mother's pitbull. The vet instructed me on the spot. You can use that spot to get him to open his mouth for you. You use the same pressure when your syringe feeding your furbabies. You have to do this carefully and gently you don't want to hurt your furbaby. You might be able to at least get him to sample some of the meat or the soupy.
Good luck, I'll check in on you tomorrow.
ciao

[ferretpalooza]

I am making a new batch of soup tonight and I had some beef and chicken liver in the freezer I tried with them but they wouldnt eat. Im going to put some of that along with the eggs and shell in this time for added nutrients. While I had it out and defrosted, when I made the soup this morning, I chopped a little of both up really tiny and threw that in too. Soup is becoming like a raw garbage can these days....ha ha ha Anyway, everyone went to eating. Max and Sully were actually eating liver today, Max on his own and Sully off a spoon of soup!!!! Buster drank some soup and when he went to run off, I grabbed him and scruffed. He fought at first but started eating very small pieces of chicken. If it was too big he spit it out. If I got a bigger piece between his back teeth he would chew, but makes faces like a baby eating spinach. I can tell he hates the texture but we kept at it. he ate a good amount of raw chicken today. He will not eat it without being scruffed and when I put him down, he went under a chair and just watched me feed the others. I kept talking to him and calling his name and he would come back over and stand in front of me. Id pick him up, scruff him and he would eat a couple more pieces. If I stop scruffing, he stops eating. Poor baby, he wants it so bad but just cant willingly eat yet. Boudreaux stole another half chicken bone and went off with it. The kibble was taken back out and they have one tray with the leftover soup and a separate tray with cut up freeze dried meat, broken up hamburger meat and the other half of the chicken bone. So they have a choice of meat on its own or soup with meat. My son has a football game in New Orleans tonight so I wont be back till 10. They will be in there a long time with no kibble but plenty to eat. I will let them out when I get home and make fresh soup and make sure everyone eats in case I have 12 hour hunger strikers. They are all at a good weight so they will be ok. They will get kibble when they go back to bed.

[Heather]

You're getting there. Looks like the whole the session was quite successful. You even got Buster to try some, that's good You probably will have to continue feeding in this manner for a little while yet, but you will see more and more of your furkids start hopping on board and become less obsessed with kibbles. It's good that Boudreaux is getting to enjoy the taste of bones...that's sometimes the most difficult part of raw feeding, getting them to eat bone. Hope you have a good evening. I will check back with you tomorrow.
ciao

[ferretpalooza]

We have a slight setback tonight. I think I added too much liver in light of the fact I add 1/2 pack of pingfords to every batch. I have to admit.....it stinks. Sully was eating it. She is quite a piggy lately. Chuckie had a few licks and carried off a couple of pieces of chicken. Max ate a little, no go for Boudreux or Bubba and when I put a little on Buster nose, he flew to the water bowl and started snorkling and he would pull his head out and glare at me and snorkle again......ha ha ha I pulled out another jumbo pack of thighs and will cook them in the morning and cut it with more plain chicken soup...hee hee I took the leftover chicken from the day and mixed it with egg and cream. Buster ate some of that with a couple of pieces of ground meat. Most came over for some egg and cream and Boudreux stole the other piece of leg bone and went to stash it. I haven seen him eat bone yet but once he feels it, he grabs it. If the dogs find his stash tonight, they will eat it. They search the house after they go to bed for any leftovers.......I'll see if I can fix the soup in the morning. They are eating a little kibble now but most arent really that interested in it.

[Forum Administrator]

Aug 22, 2008 22:43:29 GMT -5 @ferretpalooza said:

They are eating a little kibble now but most arent really that interested in it.

Doesn't sound like a setback to me

[ferretpalooza]

Ha Ha, yeah in a way. The problem was that I ran out of soup they like and they are not eating raw unless it is in soup. Some are kind of confused right now. Not attracted to kibble anymore but not willingly eating a plain raw diet....and then for the first time, I made a batch of soup that was thoroughly disgusting to them. I cooked the other pack of thighs and cut the liver rich soup from last night so now we have a nice creamy batch of soup rich with liver, egg/shells, pingfords pooridge and plenty of chicken thighs with fat. They are still a little hesitant but I get this somewhat every time I make a batch of soup. I cook with cajun measurements.....ha ha, a little of this, a little of that!!!! Chuckie is usually my snot when it comes to new soup but he was actually eating it. He likes the hamburger. Sully and Max are eating well although I did force some extra raw chicken on Max. Another change right now is the type of raw chicken Ive been giving them. I have been cutting up boneless breasts but was reviewing some of the other posts and saw they need the thigh meat more than the clean breasts. So it is a chewier, new texture that they arent really thrilled about. I had to scruff Boudreaux, Killa, Bubba to eat any of it and Chuckie a little. I continue to put the chewy pieces between the back teeth and make them chew. They like to carry these off and deposit them all over the house. Good for the dogs but not good for them. They all had a tummy full and I was covered with soup. I also went to the pet store and found some chicken and lamb jerky. 100% meat. One of the lamb things has glucosimine/chondroiten in it but .05% so I dont think that is an issue. I have been leaving the fresh meat down in the pen area as I remove the kibble but Buster stands where the bowl is and stares at me. Today I put fresh meat in the food bowl and put it where the kibble usually is. He may be a little confused. Poor baby, If I keep him scruffed, he really eats a lot. He just cant connect eating this willingly in his head yet. I will also start putting small amounts of jerky in the cage. I got a treat coconut that I will put jerky and small amounts of the treats they like. So anyway, I have a crapload of wonderful soup for them and more thawed out thighs and ground meat (the business is split on who is eating chicken and who is eating ground beef) and we will just continue on. I agree with you, it appears hand/spoon feeding and scruffing may be necessary for a while. I guess one day they just take to it as their regular food source, eh??
I am definitly in it for the long haul. These guys are so much more active and I havent seen Max look so good since we got him two years ago!!! His fur is filling out real fluffy like he was when he was 1 and his hind end is not bony and pitiful feeling. He has filled out so much. He had Killa in a neck hold this morning which is something Ive never seen before. Thanks so much for all the support, if I was doing this myself, I probably would have given up, but I do believe eventually they will be willingly eating so much better. I have no idea what the final result will be but Im convinced it will be 100% better than a plain kibble fed diet.

[Heather]

There's nothing like seeing the results you get from raw feeding to increase the old determination to win the battle against kibbles It's amazing isn't it
I'm inclined to agree with you. You're guys are so close to throwing their lot in with the raw. It's only a matter of time as they try and figure out this texture thing with the different meats. My two little girls actually ate frozen mousies last night. You could have knocked me over.....I just threw the mouse in there because that's what I was feeding the rest of the furbrats. When those two seniors started bickering over who was going to eat what on this mouse....amazing. The difference that I see in their activity levels, coat, cleaner teeth is amazing. So be prepared, I've been feeding for 10 yrs and I'm still amazed at the diffences I see, even though I've seen it again and again.
I honestly think that you will see some real turning points in the next little while and your guys relying less and less on kibbles. I will check with you tomorrow.
ciao