A business of 4 goes raw

[Forum Administrator]

Sept 21, 2008 21:32:57 GMT -5 Heather said:

I'm not fond of bone meal as it is cooked at very high heats and processed.

Me neither

[weeksl08]

I tried a chicken leg a while back and they stared at it... I took most of the meat off of the one, and they hid the bone. Go figure! I'm going to the grocery store today. Maybe I can try putting a chicken leg with the meat slightly shredded in the bottom of the bowl and cover it with soupie...

[Heather]

It's worth a try..They've progressed quite a way since that first experiment I would suggest wings, not the tips (my guys hate tips) but the bottoms (you know the parts we actually eat ) I'm trying to think about things that they could eat that actually have bones in them at the proper density that they can consume. My guys love quail, they get it every couple of nights. My guys also eat very young rabbits ( get these at the pet store, they're already dressed and frozen, no skin or fur).
I would definitely shred the meat on the legs...my guys still expect the legs to be scored (lazy little sh***). Hey, what am I except a ferret slave anyway
I will check in with you later tonight to see how the legs went over.
ciao

[weeksl08]

They did not take to the chicken leg so I'm back to chunky soup for now. Every few days I will try some shredded meat on bone for them and see if they will eat it. I have haulted trying a whole lot right now because next weekend I will be in Dallas for 4 days and a friend is going to watch the 4 furkids. I need to put together a list of dos and don'ts for him as well as a list of emergency vets.

[Heather]

I'm going to attach a file from another section posted. I'm thinking if you cannot get your guys to eat bone in it's entire state that maybe we should try and get them eating it in a frozen mixed. My butcher does all my grinding for me so I don't even think about it. I'm a little disillusioned by the amount of "stuff" that's added to a lot of these frozen mixes but it would allow your guys to eat ground bone instead of egg shells. I have access to a frozen ground but it's local and run by a lady who started feeding raw and found that getting nothing but meat grinds was next to impossible so she now provides this service for her 2 stores. I gather there is also a company called Primal. I believe that all these companies provide on line order service. I like the listing for AFS and Wildlife which to me sounds like it would be the best for ferrets and cats. Some of the others have a lot of additives and has things that shouldn't be consumed by ferrets such as honey, garlic, alfalfa, and I personally don't like flax seed as it has a tendency to be a high allergen food and causes severe itchies. Aunt Jenni's seems to be the worst for additives that shouldn't be consumed by ferrets and is filled with a lot of high carb foods (sweet potatoes, apples, walnuts and such) So, for me personally I wouldn't touch it.
**Is it possible (I know you're very busy at this time) but to have you touch bases with me a couple of times during the week. Just a quick post so that I know what and how you and your guys are doing? Please and thank you:)**

"This is a list of Commercial Raw Frozen Foods. If anyone knows of any other brands, please post them.

AFS Real Meat and Chicken Patties
GA: 16% protein, 9% fat, 69% moisture, 0.9% fiber
Ingredients: Beef, Beef By-Products (select vital organs meat), Poultry, Finely Ground Bone, Vitamins and Minerals.
100% meats, bones, and select organs.

AFS Magestic Raw 100% beef patties
GA: 16% protein, 10% fat, 68% moisture, 2.2% fiber
Ingredients: Beef Vital Organ Meats, Beef Tripe, Finely Ground Meaty Bone, Vitamins and Minerals.
100% meats, bones, and select organs.

AFS Chicken Nibblets
GA: 11% protein, 9.5% fat, 74% moisture
Ingredients: Ground chicken with bone, chicken livers, chicken hearts, organic kelp, seaweed extract, fortified with vitamins and minerals

AFS Beef Nibblets
GA: 16% protein, 10% fat, 68% moisture
Ingredients: Beef vital organ meat (including tripe), beef muscle meat, finely ground meaty bones, organic kelp, seaweed extract, fortified with vitamins and minerals

AFS - mini power patties - 100% beef and chicken
GA: 16% protein, 9% fat, 69% moisture
Ingredients: Beef by-products (select organ meat), beef muscle meat, chicken, liver, Finely Ground Bone, Vitamins and Minerals.
100% meats, bones, and select organs.

Aunt Jeni's Beef for Cats and Ferrets
GA: 20% protein, 6% fat, 73% moisture
Ingredients: grass-fed, hormone and antibiotic-free, free-range Beef, Beef heart, Beef liver; pureed mixed squashes, mixed leafy greens (kale and collards), celery, apples; whole eggs (including shells); fresh garlic; fresh parsley; raw, unpasteurized honey; organic, unfiltered, unpasteurized apple cider vinegar; ground, organic flax seeds; powdered alfalfa and kelp; and Grapefruit Seed Extract.
85% meat, bone, organs, and minerals. 15% eggs and vegetables.

Aunt Jeni's Chicken for Cats and Ferrets
GA: 15% protein, 6% fat, 74% moisture
Ingredients: Bell & Evans® Chicken, Chicken heart, Chicken liver, Chicken gizzards, finely ground, real, raw Chicken bones; pureed carrots, broccoli, cabbage, sweet potatoes, and apples; powdered organic alfalfa and kelp; farm-fresh whole eggs (including shells); fresh garlic; fresh parsley; raw, unpasteurized honey; organic, unfiltered, unpasteurized apple cider vinegar; ground, organic flax seeds; and Grapefruit Seed Extract.
85% meat, bone, organs, and minerals. 15% eggs and vegetables.

Aunt Jeni's Rabbit for Cats and Ferrets
GA: 19.2% protein, 7.1% fat, 73.1% moisture
Ingredients: naturally-raised, hormone and antibiotic-free, Rabbit, Rabbit heart, Rabbit liver, finely ground, real, raw Rabbit bones; pureed mixed squashes, mixed leafy greens (kale and collards), celery, apples; whole eggs (including shells); fresh garlic; fresh parsley; raw, unpasteurized honey; organic, unfiltered, unpasteurized apple cider vinegar; ground, organic flax seeds; powdered alfalfa and kelp; and Grapefruit Seed Extract.
85% meat, bone, organs, and minerals. 15% eggs and vegetables.

Aunt Jeni's Turkey for Cats and Ferrets
GA: 18.9% protein, 7.4% fat, 72.4% moisture
Ingredients: Eberly or Bell & Evans® Turkey, Turkey heart, Turkey liver, Turkey Gizzard, finely ground, real, raw Turkey bones; pureed leafy greens (mustard and turnip), green beans, organic alfalfa sprouts, papaya, cranberries; ground organic sunflower seeds, organic almonds and organic walnuts; Grapefruit Seed Extract.
90% meat, bone, organs, and minerals. 10% eggs and vegetables.

Nature's Variety Organic Chicken
GA: 13% protein, 6% fat, 68% moisture
Ingredients: Organic Chicken, Raw Ground Organic Chicken Bone, Organic Chicken Liver, Organic Chicken Heart, Organic Chicken Eggs, Organic Bok Choy, Organic Carrots, Organic Apples, Organic Pears, Organic Persimmons, Organic Flaxseed Oil, Organic Yogurt (Organic Grade A Pasteurized Milk, Organic Nonfat Milk, Fructan, Pectin, Live and Active Yogurt Cultures: Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bifidobacterium lactis, Streptococcus thermophilus, Lactobacillus bulgaricus, Lactobacillus casei), Organic Alfalfa Sprouts, Organic Parsley, Organic Blueberries.
95% chicken, bones, and liver.

Nature's Variety Chicken
GA: 13% protein, 6% fat, 68% moisture
Ingredients: Chicken, Raw Ground Chicken Bone, Turkey, Turkey Liver, Turkey Heart, Apples, Carrots, Butternut Squash, Ground Flaxseed, Chicken Eggs, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Dried Kelp, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Salmon Oil, Olive Oil, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Persimmons, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Inulin, Rosemary, Sage, Clove
95% chicken, bones, and liver.

Nature's Variety - Beef
GA: 13% protein, 8% fat, 68% moisture
Ingredients: Beef, Beef Liver, Raw Ground Beef Bone, Beef Heart, Beef Kidney, Apples, Carrots, Butternut Squash, Ground Flaxseed, Chicken Eggs, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Dried Kelp, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Salmon Oil, Olive Oil, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Persimmons, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Inulin, Rosemary, Sage, Clove.
95% beef, bones, and liver.

Nature's Variety Raw - Lamb
GA: 11.5% protein, 6% fat, 68% moisture
Ingredients: Lamb, Lamb Liver, Raw Ground Lamb Bone, Lamb Heart, Lamb Kidney, Apples, Carrots, Butternut Squash, Ground Flaxseed, Chicken Eggs, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Dried Kelp, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Salmon Oil, Olive Oil, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Persimmons, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Inulin, Rosemary, Sage, Clove
95% lamb, bones, and liver.

Nature's Variety Raw Rabbit
GA: 13% protein, 8% fat, 68% moisture
Ingredients: Rabbit, Raw Ground Rabbit Bone, Pork Fat, Pork Liver, Pork Heart, Apples, Carrots, Butternut Squash, Ground Flaxseed, Chicken Eggs, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Dried Kelp, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Salmon Oil, Olive Oil, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Persimmons, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Inulin, Rosemary, Sage, Clove.
95% Rabbit, raw ground bone, pork fat, liver & heart.

Nature's Variety Raw - Venison
GA: 13% protein, 8% fat, 68% moisture
Ingredients: Venison, Lamb Heart, Lamb Liver, Raw Ground Lamb Bone, Apples, Carrots, Pumpkinseeds, Butternut Squash, Ground Flaxseed, Chicken Eggs, Broccoli, Lettuce, Spinach, Dried Kelp, Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Honey, Salmon Oil, Olive Oil, Blueberries, Alfalfa Sprouts, Persimmons, Duck Eggs, Pheasant Eggs, Quail Eggs, Inulin, Rosemary, Sage, Clove.
95% venison,lamb, bones and liver.

Stella and Chewy's Chicken Steaks
GA: 17% protein, 6% fat, 68% moisture
Ingredients: USDA-inspected, free-range chicken (ground including bone), chicken liver, chicken gizzard, organic cranberries, apple cider vinegar, whole chicken egg, organic broccoli, calcium carbonate, red potatoes, organic spinach, organic seaweed, organic beets, organic butternut squash, organic apples, organic blueberries, whole flaxseed, brewer’s yeast, organic carrots, and sage. Fortified with vitamins and minerals.
96% meat and bones. 4% vegetables.

Stella and Chewy's Chicken Steaks (Canine)
GA: 17% protein, 6% fat, 68% moisture
Ingredients: USDA-inspected, free-range chicken (ground including bone), chicken liver, chicken gizzard, organic cranberries, apple cider vinegar, whole chicken egg, organic broccoli, calcium carbonate, red potatoes, organic spinach, organic seaweed, organic beets, organic butternut squash, organic apples, organic blueberries, whole flaxseed, brewer’s yeast, organic carrots, and sage.
96% meat and bones. 4% vegetables.

Stella and Chewy's Beef Steaks (Canine)
GA: 15% protein, 9% fat, 68% moisture
Ingredients: USDA-inspected beef, beef liver, beef kidney, beef heart, beef tripe, ground beef bone, organic cranberries, apple cider vinegar, whole chicken egg, organic broccoli, calcium carbonate, red potatoes, organic spinach, organic seaweed, organic beets, organic butternut squash, organic apples, organic blueberries, whole flaxseed, brewer’s yeast, organic carrots, and sage.
96% meat and bones. 4% vegetables.

Stella and Chewy's Lamb Steaks (canine)
GA: 14% protein, 6% fat, 68% moisture
Ingredients: Lamb, ground lamb bone, lamb liver, lamb hearts, lamb kidney, organic cranberries, apple cider vinegar, whole chicken egg, organic broccoli, calcium carbonate, red potatoes, organic spinach, organic seaweed, organic beets, organic butternut squash, organic apples, organic blueberries, whole flaxseed, brewer’s yeast, organic carrots, and sage.
96% meat and bones. 4% vegetables.

Steve's Real Food - Chicken with Salmon
GA: 14% protein, 13% fat, 69% moisture
Ingredients: Ground chicken, chicken breast frames, broccoli, chicken livers, chicken gizzards, cooked salmon, cantaloupe, egg shell powder, bonemeal powder, rice bran, flaxseed, sardine, anchovies oil, safflower oil, dried kelp, sea salt, taurine, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, vitamin E.
94% meat, bone, organs, and minerals.

Wildlife Whole Prey Laying Hen
GA: 15% protein, 18% fat, 64% moisture
Ingredients: Laying Hen
100% whole chicken.

Wildlife Beef-Fish-Hen
GA: 14.2% protein, 8.8% fat, 69.7% moisture
Ingredients: Beef organ meat 33%, whole beef 21%, whole ocean fish 23.0%, whole laying hen 20%, cereal 2% and bone meal 2.0%. Ingredients are approximate.
98% meats, organs and bones.

Wildlife Chicken Meat
GA: 16% protein, 10% fat, 65% moisture
Ingredients: Chicken muscle meat and bone thoroughly ground and quick frozen.
100% chicken meat and bones.


Ciao

[weeksl08]

I found Bravo groundw hole chicken without vegetables. I think I am going to order some tonight when I find a cheap website.

((I've beenw ithout a computer for about a week now so I've only updated at school.)) I will try to update you more, you can't help us if you don't know what's going on!

Bravo Ground Meat & Bones-Ground Chicken Frames, Necks and Organs
Antibiotic free, hormone free and vegetarian fed, Bravo Chicken Blend minus the Vegetables.

Bravo! = Quality
Bravo is made with all USDA inspected and *approved* meats in a USDA inspected facility that primarily cuts and processes meats for restaurant and institutional (schools, etc.) use. So, Bravo is produced under all the same processing regulations that apply to human food products. Just as important, and maybe even more important, Bravo *owns* this plant. They do not send their products out to middlemen processors. That's partially why their products are so competitively priced- no middleman processing fees. But it also means that Bravo has total quality control. They know what is happening at every step of production and the people who work their production line. So, Bravo offers not only the highest quality meats available, but also the highest quality production.

Because Bravo is manufactured to human food requirements, it means they are also already in compliance with the USDA guidelines for raw diet manufacturing.

Bravo = 100% All Natural
Another distinguishing characteristic of Bravo is the absolute commitment to healthy, all- natural product formulations. Bravo products never contain grain, preservatives or additives, and all the ingredients are always human grade quality.

Bravo knows their customers choose Bravo because their products are the best you can buy to promote better pet health… everything that goes into a Bravo product supports that promise. In fact, at Bravo they are fanatics about the quality and characteristics of the ingredients, which is why:

o Bravo red meat products are hormone-free and grass-fed
o Bravo lamb and beef are imported from Australia and New Zealand
o Bravo poultry is antibiotic-free
o Bravo raw vegetables are Grade A fresh and washed prior to processing

Bravo never uses preservatives, additives, or artificial ingredients or color

[Forum Administrator]

I like Bravo because you have the option of getting food without the veggies, but honestly if you are looking for something of the same quality, but cheaper (and more variety) check out the FINE (not course) ground raw mixes from hare-today.com . Stick with the ground chicken, rabbit, turkey, etc (any small animal) mixes and avoid ones that are pork or beef (there can be some pretty big chunks of bone in there because the bones are so huge they dont go through the grinder and come out fine). Also if you place an order through them you can also buy various organs (whole) that you might not have access to in the store.

[weeksl08]

So I just ordered this on my credit card:

1 x Chicken Hearts, 2 lbs $4.99--(I CAN USE THESE AS TREATS AS THEY love ORGAN MEAT!)
2 x Ground Chicken/Bones/Organs, 5 lb $19.90
1 x Ground Duck/Bones/Organs, 5 lb $13.95
1 x Ground Turkey/Bones/Organs, 5 lb $13.95

Sub-Total: $52.79
Federal Express (1 x 37lbs) (Home Delivery (2 days)) : $28.14
Total: $80.93

This broke down to my order being about $3.67 a pound (shipping included) , but considering I pay about 2.50 per pound of ground chicken and then add my own organs and egg shell, I think it turned out pretty ok. It will also save me time since Iw ill not have to cut everything up on my own and mix it.

[Heather]

That's fantastic....let me know how your furbabies like their new food. You may have to do some enticing, just to begin with as they may find a flavour difference (texture too) but it shouldn't take too much work. I'm glad that it didn't prove to be too expensive. Once you have this and they're eating it, then you can take your time and work with them eating whole meats but the pressure to get them to eat bone is less. You're going to be feeding a balanced meal. This is a good move, I think I will talk with you later....check in before you go away and let me know how your furbabies are doing
ciao

[Forum Administrator]

Honestly I have to say I am very impressed with Hare-today. Good prices compared to the other ground raw foods on the market, no added veggies, and the customer service is fantastic. Just so you know, even though there IS organ meat added to the ground mix, its still recommended by the owner of Hare-Today that you feed a meal of ADDITIONAL organ meat 1x per week (liver is the most important organ. Heart and gizzards are both organ and muscle, but for raw feeding purposes we will look at them as muscle. However they can still be fed the same day as the other organs).

This is certainly a good step for your furbabies. It will keep them from getting any deficiency as you work them up to raw meaty bones. Even if they get onto raw meaty bones before you run out of the ground foods, its still good to have that ground food on hand for a natural "duk soup" for your natural fed ferrets

[weeksl08]

Long story short, there were some issues with FedEx but they did an amazing job of working things out so I finally got my Hare-Today order:) I put 3 tubes of 5lb in the freezer and cut one into 1/10s. I still have some soupie I made thawed so I am going to use that for lunch and add a piece of liver and egg to the hare-today meat amd see if they will eat it later:)

[Heather]

Sounds good. Let me know how it works for them.
Good luck, I will check in tomorrow to see how their new food is going over.
ciao

[weeksl08]

Before I left for Dallas I mixed enough food for a week. I gradually added more Hare today to their original soupie until it was just hare today. They switched over no problem while I was gone and never missed a meal. Bella actually gained some weight while I was gone

[Heather]

Your guys are Gold Way to go Bella...
You've done with the first part of switching to raw. Your guys are eating raw ground on their own. Congratulations Now we have to see if we can convince them to go to whole foods now. Do you have any preferrances to what type of meats you want to try next to see if we can get them to eat chunked meat. I'd be tempted to try chicken necks if you can get them....or quail pieces, my guys love those. Strangely enough they actually like the legs better than the split breasts.
Are your guys totally off kibble?...they are aren't they?! Do you feed them ground mix at night? I was thinking, (this is how I do it, anyway) that if you feed at night, replace the food at night with one of two pieces of their more favourite foods whole and see if you can get any takers.
I will check up on you tomorrow and see how things are doing.
ciao

[weeksl08]

So far they have done great! They have eaten a whole 5lb tube of chicken and I am going to try them on duck today. I have a tube of chicken, duck and turkey left. It seems to take up much more space in my tiny fridge in baggies so for now, they will just get duck for a few days until there is enough room to portion out some turkey and chicken. We have a small "apartment sized" fridge so space is VERY limited!