Paulie's Switch to a Chicken Free Raw Diet

[novemberkris]

Well, I picked up some chicken gizzards last night, all excited because I'd confused them with giblets. I figured if he would eat any part of a chicken it would be the organs.

Have you fed gizzards and do they go over well? I hope they some decent nutrition to them. I went to Meijer, and they were only $1.50 for a big package, but still. Plus, I could have gotten chicken livers for $1.99 and I forget what beef and calf liver was priced. Out of the three, which do you think would provide the most good stuff if I go out to Meijer again in the next couple of weeks? I honestly thought the package had hearts in it, which serves me right for getting all excited. I'll still use it to try and introduce a few chunks into his soup now and then. I get the impression its a different flavor than "chicken" alone. If he doesn't like it, maybe I'll try to make something with it--or use it to enrich the outdoor cats and the dog.

Paulie ate almost an ounce in the morning and ate half an ounce overnight. He skipped his evening meal the night before. Paulie seems to eat 3-4 good meals, then skips one, then is back on again. Its like every so often, he's not interested in food for an extra few hours. He is definitely eating the soup when he is hungry and only goes rooting for kibble when he's out and about and thinks the soup I made might be "poison".

[novemberkris]

Paulie is doing amazing! Yesterday he ate his morning meal--about .25 ounces were left. I had reduced the kibbles some. I also reduced kibbles in his evening meal, which he gobbled away at until he was full. I introduced pieces of gizzard. He licked one and then kept licking the air. I don't know what that face was about. I put the pieces in his stew. He licked them, but didn't eat them. (I think he spit one of them out at one point). It looks like maybe he's a very lazy chewer.

Hmm, I hear him crunching a kibble stash. Time to make his breakfast.

UPDATE: Actually, I took out what he hadn't finished last night since its been nowhere near 12 hours. He ate a piece of gizzard! Then he tried to stash the other piece, but I kept putting him in the feeding den. He definitely wants to attempt to cache food when he's filled his belly now.

I am pleased with his desire to eat organ pieces.

[novemberkris]

Hurray! Paulie just ate his first kibble-less stew today!

I made him "breakfast" to leave in his cage--just some warm water and 1 ounce of Primal Duck. Sometime this afternoon he ate about .7-75 of the food in the bowel. I am so proud of him--no EVO or Marshall's in that mix. I will do the same tonight and hopefully he will eat more.

And he is sooo silky. You can tell how much more raw he is eating.

His poops were a little formless this afternoon--I'm guessing because he ate no kibble gravy today.

UPDATE
He ate half of his kibble-less dinner too, and at least one piece of gizzard. I chopped up half of one and only put in about 4 pieces tonight. Split up the organ meat and let him try to eat the chunks.

[tsslilsis]

Yes, I feed gizzards.. They are not concidered an organ in raw feeding though. They are a meaty meat. Gizzards are like a second stomach for chickens. Since it is not an organ meat it will be good to add some liver mainly so he'll get a taste for it. Primal already has organ in it but since it is ground it takes away from some of the nutritiants and it will taste like the rest of what is in it.. Sometimes organ takes getting used to so it will be good for him to have it in chunks in his food. It can be confusing because there are organs that are not concidered organs in raw feeding.. The rule of thumb is "If it doesn't secrete, feed it as meat".

That is wonderful that he is eating the food without his kibble gravies. Lets keep that up and he will probably be able to graduate in a few days. Has he continued to accept it without any gravy?

The formless poop will be expected for awhile. Since there was no kibble in it it obviously wouldn't have as much fiber.

-~Ketlin

[novemberkris]

Paulie's poo rounded out a bit again. I think it is because he is shedding--a lot. The raw food is really helping him pass the hair! It looks like those pictures of stool after ferrets eat a whole mouse--neat easy to be rid of package. He's dealing with his shed so much better right now.

Paulie had a special treat yesterday morning because of the heavy shed. I mixed an ounce of Primal Duck with a whole egg (okay, no shells, but I didn't have a way to grind that at home) and a few Marshall's pieces (when he wouldn't eat the egg mix alone). It looked like a ferret omelet recipe. When I came home, he had eaten it all! I figured that was a good dose of calories as he goes totally raw.

He ate half his ounce of Duck+water overnight. This mornings batch was about the same, though I got him to eat some more early this evening. I think as he realizes there will be no more kibble (except as an occasional "treat" to replace those awful Pounces) he will go back to eating more. Some of the chunks intimidate him.

He likes gizzards, but they must absolutely be chopped small enough. I'll try a few small pieces tonight or tomorrow morning--probably tomorrow morning before I leave. If I get out to Meijer this weekend I'll get some chicken, beef, or calf livers. The chicken livers come in the best package. Interesting information about what qualifies as an organ, btw.

If Paulie graduates and I want to work toward an RMB/Whole Prey diet in the future, can we always reopen the thread. I know you have to work to continue the balance when you feed that way.

[tsslilsis]

Raw diets do help them to pass the fur better because it is more like they are just eating whole prey. You do need to be sure though that you are keeping him well groomed because the fur still has a chance of clogging him up.

Its great that he had eaten all of his duck and egg mixture. He is showing real progress in how mich he is eating. As far as the egg shell goes, he doesn't need it since the Primal has bone in it.. But if you do give him things every once in a while that you want egg shell in, just rinse the egg shell off, let it dry, put it in a baggy and continually mash it with an object until it is broken up into fine bits.

If you have the choice between beef liver and calves liver you can just get whatever is cheapest.. The calves liver is nothing special, its just from young cows.

After someone graduates Giuli, the admin moves the thread to archives and no one can post in it anymore.. Between then and your switching to RMBs/whole prey you can post any questions or concerns about his diet in the "General feeding questions and discussion" area of the forum [ www.holisticferret.proboards80.com/index.cgi?board=gen ] or you can contact me directly by PM or by emailing me at [e-mail] and then once you do start the switch to RMBs/whole prey you can start a new thread.

-~Ketlin

[novemberkris]

Oh, I have definitely engaged in super-plucking when he's otherwise engaged eating or trying to get something out of reach. He's looking very dark all the sudden! He may be darker than he was a kit after this shed--weird because he has definite roaning. He looks at me across the room like, aren't I so handsome now?

He woke me up at 1am last night--because he'd eaten his ounce of Primal Duck and was hungry. Of course, everyone was asleep, so I could not mix more stew. I was bad and gave him some EVO to crunch on. I think I need to start removing the water so that he can just eat a nugget.

Its officially time to get the mixes with lower vegetable fiber. I will go out today and either use my NV coupon for Beef, Lamb or Rabbit--no Venison this round because the calcium levels are a lot lower as are the fat. If they won't take the coupon for some reason, I'll use my Pet People coupon to pick up some Primal Pheasant and then hop over to the Pet Supplies Plus to buy a 1lb pack of the NV beef for now.

I will pick up some livers when I buy for Ron and I's dinner tonight. Paulie's been so good and that Primal Beef really does smell like liver. I still can't get over him eating everything then waking me up for more food. I'll have to start thawing nuggets overnight. I want to pick up the other flavors to get the kibble out of those tastes too now and then I'll rotate daily.

Paulie's stool is still inconstistent some days. At least now I know I'm giving him food that's easy to get nutrients from. It shows in his energy levels. I'll be anxious to see if everything levels out after he finishes shedding.

[novemberkris]

Well, bought Nature's Variety Beef and Lamb. Because the fiber and carbs are so much lower and the grind is finer, the texture is very different. We have to take steps back to get Paulie to taste these two. More with the Lamb than Beef. He's also not eating as much of the Duck as I know he needs when it stands alone, so tonight I added a little kibble back into the mix, just to make sure he doesn't start losing weight. Until that appetite picks up with the raw, I think I will have to keep adding kibble gravy in a couple days a week.

NV almost becomes a gravy with water. I can see why Paulie would be disturbed by it. Even adding a teeny bit of water it does it. Maybe I'll just smash the medallion and add kibble crumbles to see what he does? He is being a bit stubborn now. But, NV has less carbs than Primal Canine, so he may still need weaned off carbs. Maybe I will take half a nugget of Primal Duck and Mix with half a medallion of NV to start with.

[tsslilsis]

The roaning is common.. Especially in white ferrets... Weezer used to be all white expect his tail looked like it was dipped in dark grey almost black paint and now he barely as any grey on his tail and roaning on his shoulders mostly and bits throughout his body.. He looks like salt and pepper. I know of one ferret that started out all grey and went all white!!! Also, Masked ferrets tend to have their masks change shape quite a bit!

If you still have some Primal Beef, mix a little in with the NV.. Same goes for the lamb. Then he should get the taste for it and be okay with the texture. It is going to taste differently as well since they are both two different recipes, so it is a lot to get used to.

You can try the medallion with kibble crumbs sprinkled on it.. Don't add too much though or he may get hooked onto the kibble. Like I said though, if you still have some of the Primal it would probably would best to add a tiny bit in with the NV of the same flavor.

-~Ketlin

[novemberkris]

Well, I don't have any Primal sampler left but beef, so yesterday morning I tried mixing the Duck and NV Beef. I had to add Marshall's to get his smeller recognizing it, but he still barely touched it until the afternoon when I tricked him into trying it (hahaha!). He ate about .7 ounces of that mix. Dinner was plain Primal Duck and overnight he ate the whole ounce! It looks like Paulie's appetite will range from a measily 1 ounce to 2 ounces per day. He really doesn't want any more than the two ounces in the end.

His shed went from heavy to light to heavy again. He keeps looking at me like "why I am I so itchy?" yet runs away from plucking and brushing. Silly goof.

Today, he did not eat his Primal Duck breakfast--which says to me he finished his ounce from last night late in the evening. He did snack on a bit this afternoon. I think he'll eat overnight again.

[novemberkris]

Paulie was huuuuungry today. He ate almost 3 ounces of food! He ate a little over half an ounce of Primal Duck this morning. He ate an ounce of Primal Duck late this afternoon. Then, he ate a mix of Primal Duck (one ounce) and .25 ounces of NV Lamb. With little prompting he ate an ounce of the mix! I was soooo proud of him. No kibble at all. Some days he is very into the raw. Today he loved it and now he's making up from all the sleeping we did today while I wasn't feeling well. He is playing like crazy.

[tsslilsis]

Since he is doing this well, I think it is time to graduate from the premade raw portion of the switch. So as previously disgussed, depending on how the moderator wants to go about it you will probably just open up a new thread when it is time to switch him to prey model/whole prey. I will send Giuli a PM and get her to review the thread.

For him to eat almost three ounces of food is wonderful. That is quite a bit. Much, much better than he was doing in the begining. Between now and the switch to prey model/whole prey I would like to see that you give him bits of meat and organ here and there just so that he gets used to the idea.

-~Ketlin

[novemberkris]

He is consistently eating 3 ounces of food a day. ;D It seems to be the perfect amount for him. He winds up with two big meals and some to snack on later. Hurray for Paulie!

He eats 1 ounce of Primal Duck and 1/2 ounce of one of the two NV medallion types (Lamb or Beef). Eventually, he will get an all duck, lamb, beef, or combo meal. I am so proud of him and I think we'll be able to add the rabbit variety next time we run out. I'd like to eliminate the Primal Duck eventually because of the carbs, replace it with a Primal Feline (Pheasant or Quail). I am going to create a half ounce portion of finely chopped gizzard for this week to add into the mix rotation. When I get some room in the little freezer I am using, I'll introduce liver. I did find a place to get gizzard/hearts packages, so I will do that next time.

He is rapidly gaining weight now (something he has not done at all since before his surgery). He's getting filled out and heavier. He is picking up on activity big time and has become a very vocal boy! I think he'll start to put on muscles soon. He chased me for an hour last night and then still went after toys. 3 ounces is definitely prime now that he's into it as food. He has not had any kibble (except as a one piece treat) in a week. It shows! His poops are smaller too. Definitely seeing the raw changes this week.

[tsslilsis]

That is all wonderful. Isn't it great, the changes that a raw diet causes? What do your parents think of it?

There isn't much to say other than that he is doing beautifully. I sent Giuli a PM and asked her to review the thread, but she hasn't posted in two weeks, though it says she was online in the last 24 hours.

-~Ketlin

[novemberkris]

My parents give me a lot of space with Paulie (plus my mom is kind of intimidated by him). I know in the middle of the switch my mom was worried about him because he didn't seem very alert, but that was when he would refuse to eat raw some days and had to eat kibble. Also, he'd started his shed. She hasn't visited him since. If it weren't so cold, I'd take him outside today and she could watch him.

I don't think odor has gone down just yet, so we'll see if she notices that change next. Last weekend Ron noticed how energetic, vocal, soft and filled out he was getting. He's definitely even moreso this weekend, so he is going to be very impressed! He's been worried about Paulie since his surgery like me because he never put weight back on and had been light for a long time. He's very excited to have the baby ferret chub coming back on the Paulster.

And he has hidden every single one of his toys . All this energy and nothing to play with because they are all stuff up under things. I swear he is carrying bigger and bigger objects away now.