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Post by novemberkris on Jan 30, 2009 6:36:00 GMT -5
Well, Paulie came out at 2pm yesterday all wound up. He chased my feet under the covers and finished off the remains of the morning soup. In the evening, I put some 10 pieces of EVO and maybe 8 of Marshalls in a broth, the rest was an ounce nugget of Primal Duck. He ate plenty, though I imagine half was broth (I tried to reduce the water, but once the duck was added there was a lot more in there). He was a hungry kid, then dooked around and chased me before he crashed for the night.
I love how consistent his stool has been all week. No seedy stools even with the fiber content in the Primal.
He goes in the den and checks for dinner when its not ready yet. His fur is seeming more luxurious and fluffy, and he has lots of extra kisses and games for Mama.
YESTERDAY'S NOTES:
Date: 1/29/09
Time: 8pm
Energy: 10 (You should have heard him dook)
Litterbox: Normal poops, regular texture, color, and size (whoohoo, the most days in a row since surgery)
Appetite: 9
Food Served: 1 oz Primal Duck/EVO kibble soup (10 pieces EVO, 8 bits of Marshalls)
8:40 UPDATE:
Well, I had to add water and a tad more kibble to coax him to eat this morning. I actually think the water was the more important part. I added kibble bits first and he still didn't eat it. He's almost eaten 1oz of PDuck in 12 hours, plus the kibble mixed in. So, he's eating plenty. I think I will eliminate Marshall's today (I substituted a few pellets of it for the pure sugar Ferretvite) and start lowering the water amount tomorrow or Sunday. School is canceled again, so I can do another afternoon feeding.
His energy this morning was about a 9 again. His stool is a little small and off textured this morning, but seeing as he's still eating some chicken products for as long as there is kibble in the mix, I think that will happen. He hasn't been lethargic all week - at least once every day he is crazy with energy (and the amount of energy is now increasing every day).
I'm so glad he's moving along. I can't believe the little differences in just a week.
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Post by bigsis7 on Jan 30, 2009 12:30:53 GMT -5
Isn't great?? I love knowing my ferrets have the best diet ever! Well let me (us) know if you have any questions or problems!! You know way more than I did and are doing way better than I did when I switched my first ferret! Paulie's doing great too!!
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Post by novemberkris on Jan 30, 2009 14:25:06 GMT -5
Choosing a prefab diet as a starting point helps with knowing what you're doing. At least I know he's getting the nutrients he needs because they are ground in there. Again, reading other people's mentor threads has been a big help with ideas and arming myself with tips.
Though, I am still amused at Paulie's love of duck. He curled up at my feet when I took a nap today like he was the happiest boy in the world. Of course, he hasn't eaten any soup since this morning--he's actually not hungry. I offered him maybe 5 EVO kibble bits and all he did was stash it.
I saw Heather's soup recipe today:
"8 oz raw chicken thigh meat
1 tsp of crushed eggshell powder (take a raw eggshell. Rinse it out. Let it dry. Crush to powder) If you use rmb then you don't have to add this.
1 raw chicken heart
1/2 raw chicken liver
Water (use more to make it soupier, less to make it thicker)"
I think based on that, I'll mix up a "jar" of kibble gravy to scoop in, but instead mix the duck with some warm water and see if I can get him to try it kibble-less. He might not eat it, but it seems when I jump one step ahead, then work a half step backward, he eats the half step like its a special treat. I can then measure gravy in tsps and know exactly how much he needs at each step to eat the duck soupies. That will help me limit the water too.
I was thinking on enrichment through RMBs and am wondering when the weather will clear out so I can get something "chicken wing" like. I thought, it might make a fun food game. He loves to play tug and chase things. Of course, I can't make a meat teaser on carpet, but we can wrestle with a wing. It'd be a toy first, and then maybe he'd learn it was food. I just thought that would be fun to try later in the game, since he loves new games and often events them (like stealing my day planner so I will chase him).
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Post by Forum Administrator on Jan 31, 2009 1:06:53 GMT -5
Just wanted to let you know I will be assigning you a mentor shortly. I have been out of commission because my computer was in the shop, but I'm back online and I assure you, you will be given the best attention and assistance possible, once I hook you up with an official mentor. Hang tight.  |
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Post by novemberkris on Jan 31, 2009 18:58:59 GMT -5
I am so incredibly proud of Paulie. Although, I had to continue to put some Marshall's/EVO gravy into the P duck soup to get him to eat it last night, I left him in the cage with a mostly duck bowl and a bowl of EVO kibble today. When I returned home, the duck was almost gone and the EVO was not even touched.  I am so happy. I also brought my bf, Ron, home, who made Paulie play a good hour. Paulie LOVES when Ron comes to wrestle and play  They are best buddies. Paulie was admitted lethargic yesterday. However, Ron felt horrible and I had a headache all day. I believe the weather pressure system rolling through had us all miserable. Paulie curled up between my feet while I tried to nap off the headache, sweetpea. His litterbox is normal. I'm still stoked Paulie chose a mostly Duck mix over kibbles today when he had the choice.  to Paulie. |
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Post by novemberkris on Feb 1, 2009 8:57:50 GMT -5
Last night I made fresh soup, 1 oz Primal Duck, 10 pieces EVO, 5 pieces Marshall's, 1/4 cup of water. I started by making the kibble broth separate, and then added it to the Duck so he had the chance to check it out without the broth again. When he wasn't interested, I divided the soup between two bowels (hah, taking his Big Dragon out of his cage to hide again) and put one in the fridge and the other in the cage. A few minutes later, I heard slurping. Without even offering with a spoon or my finger, he'd climbed into the cage and ate everything in the bowel. The past few times I've had to add a bit more kibble to encourage him to eat. No prompting! YAY! That's right up there with Paulie choosing it over kibble. I added more for him to eat overnight, but it seems that he never gets hungry enough to eat overnight--just uses the litter box. I may only leave him a couple spoonfuls overnight when he's eaten his dinner so that it doesn't get wasted. This morning he is not yet interested in food. It is still cold from the fridge, though. If he acts like yesterday, he'll eat it when I put him up for his nap today. I noticed he's able to eat more in the shallow bowel. I'll try to keep leaving that one in his cage--he doesn't seem to be tipping it now that I'm not putting kibble in it. Here's the stats for the past 24 hours: Date: 1/31/09 Time: N/A, Paulie is now choosing to eat when hungry after serving. Energy: 10 Litterbox: Normal poops, regular texture, color, and size Appetite: 9.5 Food Served: 1 oz Primal Duck/EVO kibble soup (10 pieces EVO, 5 bits of Marshalls) Smelled like the Duck this time. UPDATE 10:00 Oh my gosh! I caught Paulie crunching on a kibble stash, so I heated Paulie's food 20 seconds and he ate ALL of the .5 ounces of duck +light broth left. He couldn't get to some under the spoon and looked at me licking his chops for more. When I lifted the spoon and he saw there was some left, he got all BOTTLEBRUSHED! He licked that bowel clean and is sniffing for more dooking in the feeding den. This gives me a question: How many ounces of Primal Duck should we be working up to? He is definitely eating a whole nugget (1 ounce) now in 24 hours--well, maybe .8 ounces if you factor in what I leave overnight that he doesn't get up for, but I'm changing the amount I leave him. He's so excited he's playing with his toys again this morning, running in circles and carrying on. He is starting to get excited about his food! |
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Post by sherrylynne on Feb 1, 2009 11:28:20 GMT -5
You should probably work him up to about 6-8 oz a day as a goal. Not all fuzzies eat that much, but most males will. You could try giving him just slightly warmed duck, with a bit of warm water on to make it "wetter", instead of "soupy", and see what he does with it. If he takes it, great, if not, just go back a bit.
You two are doing so well!
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Post by tsslilsis on Feb 1, 2009 15:21:53 GMT -5
Please forgive me as I've not read the entire post.. I'm in a bit of a time crunch..
I'm Katherine AKA Ketlin and I'll be mentoring you.. I have three ferrets, all are rescued and are on a raw/whole prey diet (F/T.. no live yet because mice and rats are just too cute).. Their names are Ravi (about a year old), Lillian (2 years old) and Weezer (3 years old).
I see you think that your little Paulie has a chicken allergy.. Have you tried raw chicken? Cooking changes the properties of meat and if an animal is allergic to that meat when it is cooked they are generally fine with it when it is raw.. My dog for example, if she eats cooked pork it caused her to throw up but raw pork sets with her well. That isn't always the case but it generally is.
Also, An ounce isn't much of a meal for a ferret.. If he is finishing all of the meal in one sitting then I would suggest feeding him more. With a ground raw food you can leave it out for up to 12 hours so as long as it is finished in that time frame then it is fine.
-~Ketlin
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Post by novemberkris on Feb 1, 2009 17:03:28 GMT -5
Nice to meet you Ketlin. I would love to get to whole prey eventually. Right now, my goal is to maybe introduce some pinkies and the like for enrichment/treats. He's finishing the Primal Duck with kibble mixed in in multiple sittings, usually 2-3 times a day. I am upping the amount I offer today--he seems to be "food shy" in some senses, since I think kibbles in general were causing his stomach to act up. He may have to get used to eating more. I'll not worry about leaving a larger amount out if its good for 12 hours. I guess I was worried because it was mixed in a soup, which warms it up faster, blah blah. But it still seems to be treating him better than kibble no matter when he decides to eat it. I'll try leaving a whole ounce in the morning and a whole ounce at night, since he's starting to get excited about it and actually look for more. I was basing my initial introduction on the ratio suggested for his weight by the makers, starting with part of it and then working up to the whole amount (Since he's around 3 pounds they suggested 1.5oz). You are right though, he definitely needs to eat more since he is a ferret and now he knows its food, so that should be easier. He may become a big eater yet . If he wants more than that I'll let him eat it. I think he's just getting his appetite up for it. I have some chicken in the Primal sampler. When he's eating this duck regular, I'll let him try a bit before I go out and purchase a bag. 10 PM Update: Well, he ate about 1/2 of the Primal duck+water+even less kibble. He just can't seem to break that .5oz marker yet. He stashed a bunch of EVO I laid out, but didn't eat it either. (He really hasn't been choosing to eat kibble unless a stash seems particularly yummy to snack on--and it is snacking). He did seem to eat some fur though, so his tummy could be a bit iffy tonight. His stool has had a couple yellowing+seedy looking parts. Knowing him, it will be back to normal by tomorrow morning. I hope him getting some of the skin and bone in this will help him pass fur without ferretlax. He was also shedding when I ran him into the vet in October so I don't know if he is sensitive to his fur when he tidies himself. I always keep an eye when I catch fur in the litterbox. I should get some pumpkin to keep on hand instead of the ferret lax now. That was a great tip from this forum. He has plenty of energy and has dug into my laundry basket to play in my clothes. I can see clothes trying to move "on their own". |
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Post by novemberkris on Feb 1, 2009 22:30:14 GMT -5
Okay, I was not going to post again tonight, but I wanted to share the new milestone: 1 oz of Primal Duck eaten within 6 hours. He had ate the rest of his meal from 5pm tonight. Of course, this took some cohercing--including adding a little more water.
A new trick that I think is getting him to acknowledge the food. I give him Ferretone as a treat now when he goes up on his bowl rim. I put it on tonight, thinking, "he licks that and then probably tests the food for more. Then realizes it is yummy." Yep--that seems to be his mindset. Dribble some Ferretone on the rim, a couple drops in the bowl, and he works from the rim to the food. He ate everything but a couple bites. I will test this theory with no kibble, just water tomorrow and see if it continues to work. He's been really stubborn with getting that last bit of kibble out of his soup/mush.
Another ounce of duck is thawing for the morning and also about .7oz of Primal lamb--just to again offer him a choice. He licked the lamb frozen, so we may have another winner. *crosses fingers* He's being such a good boy and I am so glad he's starting to eat more.
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Post by novemberkris on Feb 2, 2009 7:11:03 GMT -5
We made the step to no kibble. I used the Ferretone on the lip trick and thick dipped my finger in the broth and let him lick that while licking the tone. He drank quite a bite of the broth and ate a few pieces of meat. He doesn't seem too hungry yet this morning so I'll leave it in while I'm out subbing today. Hopefully, it will almost all be gone when I get back today . |
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Post by tsslilsis on Feb 2, 2009 9:33:15 GMT -5
Next time you can try it with very little "broth" and with the tone to see if he will take it.. Ferrets love broth but it can fill them up before they get to the meat so it is confusing when your trying to do the switch.
If he will continue to take it without kibble, keep it that way.. When they eat dry kibble and raw in the same sitting or within a small period of time it can upset their stomaches because kibble and raw digest at different rates. If you have to add kibble then I would suggest moistening it and letting it soak up the water first.
If you're looking for an alernitive to the ferretlax you can use castor oil.. I use it on my dogs and ferrets.. It is cheap and only requires a couple drops. It doesn't have sugar, petrolium or other nasty stuff like Ferret Lax.. Ferret Lax is unhealthy, actually... The castor oil is meant for people and it has no flavorings or anything like that but ferrets like it because it is oily.
So for the mean time you just want him on prepackaged raw? No other meat or organs?
-~Ketlin
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Post by novemberkris on Feb 3, 2009 16:12:00 GMT -5
Well, in a sense we took a big step backward yesterday, but that was because I had such a horrible headache I couldn't spend hours encouraging him to eat. He did not eat anything until I got home from work--disappointing. However, he had some abnormal green stool (not runny, just green-like maybe he ate a bunch of the vegetable parts of the soup). I backed off and made a "kibble soup" with an ounce of duck thrown in. He ate maybe 1/2 of it, so that was something. He didn't eat anymore overnight either. That being seen, I stepped back and made kibble gravy instead of kibble soup. Your right, he's getting filled up on broth and doesn't want to eat anything else. This morning, he had a "stew" of EVO+Marshalls (Marshall's just turns into gravy better) and also .75 ounces of Primal Lamb. He decided that was delicious and ate about half of it in his cage this morning before going back to bed (it was pretty early). He did not eat anymore while I was gone, but I'm not surprised. It still takes a couple finger licks to remind him. I was pleased because it was a new meat and he still ate plenty. Tonight, I made a kibble gravy with less of the two kibbles and put in an ounce of the Primal Duck again. He's licking off my finger but not too interested in chowing down yet. He isn't making faces and keeps licking more and more from the fingers though, so when he realizes he's hungry he will go at it again. This "stew" is good and chunky--gravy and no broth. I think once he's chowing on this, I will have an easier time eliminating kibble because he isn't "drinking" it. Okay, gotta go, Paulie is terrorizing my alarm clock and I need that for work tomorrow. UPDATE: The clock is okay! Paulie needed to instigate a chasing game. Classic ferret trick. Goals: Well, I am in my parents' house, so commercial raw is the least offensive staple for the time being. Obviously, I want to step Paulie up from the Primal Duck formula because of the high fiber content. If I can get a reasonable price on Primal Feline Pheasant and Quail, I would love to have him eating some of that. (Also, Nature's Variety Rabbit seems a good bet--I'm still learning the red meats he will tolerate) That being said, I would love to use other meats, bones, and whole prey as enrichment foods--just to tickle his belly and maybe make it easier to finish the transition once I am in my own place again. For now I'm not opposed to introducing crickets, pinkies, heart and other good organ pieces, chicken wing like pieces, rabbit RMBs and other meats to keep him curious. Here, I just can't use them for a full time diet. I think he would really go for raw bones (like leg bones) because he steals my pencils. I have to steal them back to keep him from chewing on the ends (as if they were bones). I think he has good instinct for bones as treats and I hate to deprive him of it. |
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Post by novemberkris on Feb 4, 2009 21:12:55 GMT -5
I cut back to .75 ounces of the Primal Duck in each serving. This appears to be much closer to what he actually can eat at once, currently. The ratio is about 25% kibble gravy to 75% Primal Duck. Its really thick now and I think he's starting to realize that chunky is also delicious. This morning he ate about half of a mixture with 1 ounce of the duck, tonight he ate 75% of the mixture. Hopefully, he'll eat more before I go to bed (he's snacking on it off and on when I encourage him).
He definitely needs more of an appetite for food in general. The next time I am home all day I will try offering him small meals more often to get him to eat more. Maybe then he will eat on his own throughout the day when I am gone more. Its almost like he wants to be spoonfed (haha, and he does) before he eats.
He also seems to have a small cold. He's coughing a little and sneezing, and his poops are a little seedy/yellow as of this morning. He is still going regularly as in timing. I also admit, I was naughty and gave him a "treat" when I put him up. I think this is the final proof that those treats are bothering his tummy. Out they go, good-bye (more reason to add enrichment meats). As for coughing and sneezing etc I'll keep an eye on it. I run an air purifier for my own allergies, so hopefully that rules them out. I figure something agitated him that has to work its way out--the temp going up and down doesn't help the furnace keep a consistent heat.
Date: 2/4/09
Time: 6am/8:30pm
Energy: 7, definitely has a furcold (though is pretty mild--drinks, eats, plays with toys when encourages, etc well)
Litterbox: Slightly yellow, seedy poops as of this morning. Color returned to normal during the day, but texture remains seedy.
Appetite: AM 6, PM 8
Food Served: 1 oz Primal Duck/EVO kibble gravy AM, .75 oz Duck/.25 kibble gravy PM
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Post by tsslilsis on Feb 5, 2009 0:19:53 GMT -5
So, since he is eating the raw, the goal will be to slowly decrease the amount of kibble gravy/both/kibble all together that he is getting so that it is a fully raw diet. You can decrease the amount on the daily basis, just take it slow and steady.
What varieties of the Primal has he had so far?
If his poops continue to be odd colored and seedy I would be concerned that he may have ECE or something similar going on.. But it could just be the diet switch. I would keep a close eye on him and make sure he stays well hydrated.
If I recall correctly you said something previously about him shedding?? That could be why he is coughing and sneezing, unless it is a very wet sneeze. But I would suggest grooming him with a comb daily and LIGHTLY "plucking" at his coat to remove shed.. Sometimes it gets on the back of their tongues and tickles it causing hacking/etc.
-~Ketlin
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