Paulie's Switch to a Chicken Free Raw Diet

[novemberkris]

FEEDING:

His appetite is going up. This morning he ate more of the gravy/Primal mix. It was more like .80 oz Primal with less gravy. He's a sneak though! If he can, he will lick the gravy off the meat pieces, so I still have to make sure its mixed really well. He did eat some meat without sucking it in with the gravy, but he gave me dirty looks for not putting more of the "good stuff" in there.

I did leave him with EVO today, because there for a couple days he'd clearly dropped a little weight. He ate the EVO today, another good sign for appetite and he's putting the weight back on. Obviously, that's something I am watching as its important to keep him healthy as we switch. He is eating more and more of the mix, though.

HEALTH:

Paulie is upping the amount he eats again. I think the new food is starting to settle in his belly. Still some seedy poops, but they are becoming more normal again. This is something he's gone through before and after surgery, and the vet doesn't see it as ECE. He's never gotten really watery poops and he has mucusy ones on the rare occasion he truly decides something he shouldn't eat might be delicious (which is pretty rare).

He is still coughing a little bit, but its not when I palpitate his stomach at all. So, definitely, something's agitated his throat. No big wet sneezes--occasional big sneezes, but nothing out of the ordinary for a little guy that drags out dustbunnies. He's not shedding all out, just a few hairs here and there, but I would like a recommendation on a good comb or brush. Paulie can not stand the acrylic "ferret brush" that Marshall's makes, so it is clearly not comfortable.

PAULIE TRIVIA:

The nice thing is Paulie LOVES water. He thinks it is fantastic. In fact, when he stops drinking I know he's not well and he's only done that once (when we rushed to the vet for surgery). He'll stand there and drink until his belly is full sometimes I think and he's done it since I brought him home. Of course, water dripped on the shelf of his cage, his food bowl, or my hand is a special treat--as are ice cubes.

[novemberkris]

Whoohooo! Paulie's appetite was at a 10 tonight. He ate almost a whole ounce of Primal Duck (one nugget) mixed in with a light kibble gravy. It was all from a spoon, but he was such a good eater tonight. The whole mix was probably 1.25 ounces or so, so he was definitely close to the 1 ounce mark with what he ate. He thought I was poisoning him when I forced him to take a lick, and then it was like "Please, miss, I want some more."

We'll get more meat on his bones yet.

Oh, and I also snuck in a couple kibble sized balls coated in smashed kibble dust. He didn't bat an eye (though won't eat it on his own yet--you have to be sneakier than the Paulster).

He's tried Primal Duck and Primal Lamb, btw. I will thaw out some other samples for him to try this weekend when I can do rotation and monitor him closely.

[tsslilsis]

For a comb reccomendation.. I don't use anything fancy, just a comb meant for people that has close teeth. When you brush him, don't point the teeth of the comb toward his skin or it will scrape against him.. Use the comb at an angle til it just glides through his coat.

He is doing great thus far. I'm looking forward to seeing how he handles the other Primal varieties.

-~Ketlin

[novemberkris]

I'm glad to see Paulie settling in this routine. He will occasionally crunch a kibble if I leave him with that during the day--but its almost like chips to him, instead of a meal. He's definitely waiting for the stew he gets at night.

FEEDING:

This morning he didn't eat much before I left. I got him up very early though because I had to sub at a high school across the county. Of course, when I got home at 3 he'd eaten about the same .5-.7 ounces of the Duck and gravy that he's been eating. I pulled some more from the fridge and made him some broth for a reward for being so adventuresome (we went to the big, scary, snowy outside for 5 minutes today and he practically begged to go back in after that). He drank a lot of it with some duck pieces when I went out for pizza with the family.

When I got home I mixed him up a new soup. Kibble gravy and an ounce of Primal Beef from the sampler. My gosh did it ever smell like liver (which I cannot stomach eating). I snuck some to Paulie while he was waking up, thinking he'd spit it out at me. NO, he licked it off my finger and then plenty from a spoon. Once he woke up he hasn't eaten any more, but I figure he hasn't finished processing his afternoon munchies yet. It looks promising that he will eat the beef, which is good because that means that he likes beef and lamb.

HEALTH:

Paulie is extra spunky today and keeps stealing my grad school folder. His litterbox is normal and he has stopped coughing. He is, however, definitely starting to shed. I don't know if it is because it is February and he is switching to spring/summer coat early, or if it is because he is putting in new fur as I am switching him. I do know that the more raw he is eating, the less this fur thing seems to be bothering him. Hopefully, the switch will help keep his GI track consistent during the shed. I will try a comb as well (though plucking works right now).

I had thought he was sick or scared earlier today. He camped in my lap while I was on the phone with my boyfriend (who named him). He hasn't done that since surgery or when he was a kit. Then, he crawled up and put his head on my shoulder near the phone. He was listening to his buddy's voice! He misses Ron! As soon as I hung up the phone with him, he was off and in trouble again. How about that--he's bonded with him too. Corker

STATS

Energy: 10
Appetite: 8
Food: Primal Beef with kibble gravy
Litterbox: Back to normal

[novemberkris]

I think its fair to say that Paulie beef. Overnight he ate somewhere between .75-85 the nugget/ounce in stew. This morning, he's only licking broth of the duck--but I get the impression he's just not hungry yet. I reduced the kibble gravy done to a few pieces. We'll see how Paulie does. This may be the weekend we get close to him eating raw with no kibbles.

I'm making a note to get NV Beef with my coupon and maybe some beef heart/liver (if that's a good idea) for treats/enrichment. I should try him with a chicken meal this weekend and see if his litterbox remains consistent. Its a shame NV doesn't make a sampler, because then I could try rabbit and venison in stews to see how he does. He would be up for eating pretty much anything then .

Go Paulie, go! (He's starting to put weight on too

UPDATE:

By George, I think he's got it. Paulie ate one piece of kibble this morning, I brought the slop over before he could eat more and he gave this look like, "Oh yeah, that's the GOOD food," and started munching away. He ate at least .8 ounces if not more of Primal Duck this morning (and there was very little kibble gravy to it at all). In fact, when he was done, he thought he'd cache some for later for the first time. (I put a stop to that by putting the spoon or two left in his bowl into the feeding den.) He is walking around very satisfied and licking his chops like, Mmmmm, nummy.

Appetite: 10
Energy: 7-8
Food Served: 1 ounce Primal Duck with a light kibble gravy (5-10 kibble bits)
Litterbox: Normal

If I weren't so tired from subbing this week, I'd dance all over the room.

[novemberkris]

Paulie almost finished up the Primal Duck in his cage before I got home. Dinner was a mix of Primal Beef and kibble gravy. For Primal Beef I have to make a stronger kibble gravy right now, since the beef smell is so strong it still puts Paulie off at first.

I am proud to say, he ate the whole ounce in the past 12 hours! Its a first-toot the horns, he can eat an ounce. He ate about .75-8 ounces last night before I crashed and somewhere between 4am and 9am ate the rest, plus whatever else yummy he could find to eat in his cage. (He woke me up at 4, by the way. He knew I was tired from spending the day at the Warhol exhibit with his buddy and was mad that I didn't bring Ron home with me )

This morning he has a mix of very light kibble gravy with .7-8 ounces of Primal Chicken. I will be monitoring his litterbox and health extra close after he tries this, just in case. He will be getting another Duck meal tonight. Food rotation seems to be going very well, even though we are still in slop/stew phase. The more foods he tries, the less kibble gravy he seems to need over all and the higher his appetite gets.

[novemberkris]

He did not like the chicken and didn't even touch it when it was left in his cage. I connived him into eating some broth and a couple chicken bits before I put him up, but no, he didn't want any after that. We'll try again later, but he was not a big fan this time.

Dinner was an ounce of Primal Duck in a light kibble gravy. He ate it all. I put a couple small kibble sized pieces of primal duck in overnight to see if he'd eat those too--no luck yet. He has even lighter gravy this morning and the rest of the duck nugget. I am confident that will be gone by the time I get home from work today.

[tsslilsis]

He may just not be a chicken kind of guy.. There is nothing wrong with that though.. Three species of meat is the minumum and I see right now he is loving lamb, beef and duck.

The shedding is probably a mixture of it being close to the end of winter as well as the diet change.. Diet change takes effect really quickly, part of their "Detox" (as one could call it) is replacing the old fur with new, softer, shinier fur.

It would be great to get some heart and liver for him.. Heart has taurine in it which is nessisary and liver is organ meat so obviously it will be great to give him.

Are you continuing to slowly decrease the amount of gravy?

I'm sorry I've not been on here the past 3 days.

-~Ketlin

[novemberkris]

Yesterday, he really only a little of his morning food. I also started to get quite the cold, so when I got home I mixed up an ounce of Primal Duck with a much heavier kibble gravy than I've been feeding. It was more than I wanted in there, actually, but it ensured he ate half the bowl before I had to go to sleep (which was early).

I got up and made him a soup with less kibble gravy than I've been making (maybe 8-10 pieces of Marshall's). He didn't eat it.

I later found out why. Paulie had his first major raw food rebellion. Actually, it was terribly ingenius. He climbed up through the drawers, scaled my bookbag like a ladder, and from the top of my bookbag stole the remainder of a small box of strawberry Panda candies. He stole them away, box, bag and all to his hidey hole and ate them.

Sugar junky! I was horrified, as that had seemed ferret proof. Paulie is clearly getting smarter which is a good thing, yet at the same time means I have to come up with all new places to store my personal goodies.

Luckily, it only caused what looked like one small bout of diarrhea. The poop after it is normal and has been since I got home. He also ate .75-8 ounces of Duck while I was gone though. I guess he figured he'd eaten enough junk food for awhile. He's napping now (as I get the impression he didn't sleep well today with his candy belly ache) and had plenty of kisses for me.

[novemberkris]

Good thing I read the ferret raw food vomiting thread or I would have been up all night. Paulie ate a whole ounce of Duck in one sitting last night, plus whatever EVO chunklets were in there. Of course, 2 hours later, he regurgitated about .1 ounces or so of his meal. I heard the sound, and checked on him, freaked out and let him out.

He seemed ... spunky. Then I thought of the thread and realized he'd gotten gluttonous and ate too much! He didn't throw up any more and his poops are normal. He ate a little this morning, but it looks like he may graze instead. This mix has the least kibble so far, and he's eaten some of it. We're almost to no kibble now.

[tsslilsis]

Ouch!!!! That must have been a lot of sugar. That *could* be why he threw up this morning.. Ferrets are very good at knowing when they've had enough to eat, so over eating wouldn't be the first thing to come to mind. I've owned 4 ferrets, one passed away (For ever in my heart, Jillian).. But they've only puked twice that I know of, when Jillian ate a candy wrapper and when Weezer had a blockage. But I have a feeling Paulie just had an upset stomache.

Don't adjust the kibble gravy Today, but after Today, you can try taking a piece of kibble out each day. That way its not going too fast, and he probably won't notice.

I know my posts aren't very long, but the switch to prepackaged from kibble is generally much easier than switching to prey model or whole prey because there is not a ton of balancing to do.

-~Ketlin

[novemberkris]

Well, no more vomiting incidents and Paulie is quite the little tramp tonight. He's cracking me up.

He ate about .7 ounces of his morning food throughout the day which had very little kibble in it (maybe 10 pieces EVO, 5 pieces Marshalls tops).

I did about the same amount of EVO with 1 OZ duck (hahaha, he is attacking my clothes because they "jumped" on him when he tugged them). I won't add Marshall's until I'm sure he won't eat it (this is what I've done every night). He licked the broth this time, so I think we're safe not adding the "sugar". He officially thinks Marshall's kibbles are treats, so he's definitely adjusting to the elimination of other treats and the reduction of EVO. (He hasn't gotten Marshall's as primary food since I used it to wean him back on solid food post-surgery).

If I can convince him EVO kibbles are "treats" that will be pretty exciting.

Oh, and as it turns out, he didn't eat all of that candy I had left. I found a couple pieces he'd stashed and attempted to eat later and snatched them from him. He pouted, but had this look like '"I had a feeling you'd take those away." He's totally over it now, he got to meet other fuzzes today, and not the ferret kind. He's now pouting because I won't take him back out to "play" with them. I have to share this story in another section--too cute

[tsslilsis]

He's doing well. Sounds to me like he will be off of the kibble broth in no time. Are you going to try the heart and liver with him?

He sounds very sweet/insane/loveable!!!!! Ferrets are the greatest, Aren't they??

-~Ketlin

[novemberkris]

I still plan to try heart and liver. That may be a hard sell right now, since his food is still a kind of stew. However, I may be able to add very small pieces and get him to eat it.

He's doing really well. He's now eating about an ounce every 12 hours. He doesn't eat when I set the food out, but in his cage when he is hungry now. He ate an ounce of Duck while I was at work yesterday (we still had the Marshall's in the kibble gravy mix until this morning) and almost 1 ounce of Lamb last night. I think he does start to get bored when I do too much Duck in a row now, which is really exciting to see. This morning his has Duck again, just EVO kibbles in it. EVO doesn't turn into a gravy well, so there tends to be chunks. He seems to be leaving some of the EVO chunks in any bits he doesn't eat. He ate some kibble for a snack a couple days ago (presumably because he ate all the stew and was hungry later) but hasn't had any in 24 hours.

I am going to attempt to keep his cage 100% kibble free now that I know he is eating the raw mix in his cage everyday when I am not home and overnight. I feel that he is finally eating enough to stop offering kibble at random points. He has weight when you pick him up--unless he's hungry and you can tell his tummy is empty then. His fur is becoming quite soft and silky. I think some of the yellow that has accumulated on his bib from feeding kibble soup is now disappearing.

If I want to introduce some RMBs for enrichment, where should I start? As you stated, Paulie doesn't seem to be a chicken kind of guy, so I wouldn't know what meats and bones would be manageable. Maybe some lamb neck chops (or whatever those teeny chops are you find now and then on the cheap)? I'd really like to get him some bones to chew on so maybe he'll stop trying to steal my pencils when I sit and draw him.

[tsslilsis]

For RMBs: Rabbit, duck, quail, lamb may be do able (Will depend on what kind of chewer he is and what the cut is, my ferrets have eaten lamb chops).. That is all I can think of at the moment. I don't know why it is but some animals just don't like chicken. My dog Sally won't eat raw chicken unless it is smothered in juices from red meat. Chicken is generally used as a starting point so we will have to find away around that. I think if you can get some duck it will be a good starting point since we already know he likes duck.

I see the amount he is eating is really picking up, which is very pleasing. So he ate almost 2 ounces of food Yesterday, which is a real turn around from .5.

Going all raw brings on the changes so quick. Its awesome watching their transformation.

-~Ketlin