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Post by harrisi on Jan 27, 2009 19:21:33 GMT -5
Thought I would start a blog so here goes: Mice: Males: 89 Females: 163 Litters produced: 186 to date Rats: Males: 172 Females:Over 200 Litters produced:375 Rabbits: Males: 2 Females: 8 Litters produced: 17 Will post more tomorrow laptop battery is running out grr
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Post by animalsgetrevenge on Jan 27, 2009 21:06:13 GMT -5
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Post by harrisi on Jan 28, 2009 6:39:00 GMT -5
GEESH! How many years have you been breeding? I bet you have a great system of breeders and cages! I have been helping friends with feeder animals for about 6 years now, but only started this programme early last year! I think I have a good system, but others would disagree lol! For the rats I just keep things in 3 stages to make it easier (Breeding, Birthing, Resting) so 1 wall is Breeding, that has pretty big tubs now as I only have 20 tubs for that wall with 6 rats in each (1.5) then two walls (9' and 11') are birthing racks, along the 9' wall I have 4 tubs, 3 females are put into these or 4 if there is small litters. The 11' wall has 5 tubs that 4-5 females are put in at a time. Oh and all the rat racks are floor to ceiling so they are 10 tubs high. Then on another wall (11') I have the recently built "resting" rack wich is 4 loooooooong tubs, the females are put into this when the babies are weaned and taken to be grown on, they are left there for 1 week then they are put back to the start (breeding) to allow them time to recoperate from the litters. Then in the middle of the room I have 6 18"x36" tubs for growing on with some storage underneath. For cleaning my perfect friend ( ) comes over to help. We get 1 tank as a "holding pen" for the rats meant to be in that tub, a bin with bedding in and a bin for old bedding. I start at the top tub and work down, passing all the rats to my mate so he can sort out fat females, pregnant females (wich are put into a holding tank for later) and males. I then scoop out the tub, throw bottles and bowls into a box for cleaning then my mate puts in new bedding, whilst I get the bowls and bottles out, refill bottles and put in bowls then rats that are male/arnt pregnant get put back into the tubs. Then it carrys on. Then we put rats into the holding tank and clean out them tubs and put in the new females that are pregnant. Pups that are old enough to be moved on/weaned are put in the spare growing on tub, the females that have had the pups taken from them get put into a tub by the resting tub and we just keep on like that. Then at the end of it all we go along with dry foods then we cook some meats and make up "dinner" for the newly weaned pups and give the rest fresh veggies. Its kinda confusing putting it into words but it works out well lol. Its very quick aswell, last cleaning day we did it in a time of 34 minutes with all the rats listed above. . Today is "D-day" (death-day, lovely huh? ) though, as all the rats are 2-24 weeks we have decided to have a mahoosive "clean out" of all the rats (we wouldnt usually kill any rats until they are at least 8 weeks old because pinkies and fuzzies are difficult to kill) so we will be back down to 50 females and 10 males for breeding. Same with mice, but we will have alot less mice. Rabbits might all be culled as we have some great land for hunting with the ferrets now that there really isnt any need - we have stocked up the freezer aswell so we are set for a good 6 months or so (we also have land that we were told to clear of rabbits...so we did exactly that and now we have over 100 rabbits in the freezer !) but my mate might take them home to keep as pets as they are lovely rabbits and perfectly trained, I have sat out on the garden many days just watching them wanting to take them in and keep them as house rabbits. But still...This has turned into a loooong post. And I should go spot clean and feed the ratties.
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Post by harrisi on Jan 28, 2009 13:50:05 GMT -5
*yaaawwn* lol. Rats: Plans changed a bit today! Firstly we couldn't find the CO2 cannisters for the culling so we spent nearly half an hour looking for them, and found them sitting right besides the door so we had actually passed them - twice - before finding them so I got Jamie to hook it up to the culling tub then we got a few tubs and started from the birthing racks emptying them of pups then Jamie had a brain fart...*I know, lets modify the culling tub* so we ended up making a mesh grid for the culling tub as we had always had a problem of with the rats urinating everywhere when they "went to sleep" from the CO2 so we had been putting loads of tissue under them to absorb it but it didnt work well so with the mesh grid it just falls through and collects in the bottom of the tub (we put loads of bedding in the bottom for easy cleaning) so after spending how long doing that we finally set to work, we had a tub each and we put in just enough rats to fill the bottom so none had to stand over each other. We finished that then got the rats from the "growing on" rack and after cleaning out the tubs we did the same. Then we were having a look through the female rats breeder papers and realised they were getting old(ish) and it wasnt really fair to carry them on in the breeding programme so we killed them aswell but since we had recently "renewed" the males and they had amazing lines we decided to keep them but due to the freezer almost over flowing we decided to hold back on breeding - by this time all that is left is a few male rats in a tub each so we put them into a tub together to make sure they were ok living together and they were. We took all the tubs outside, put them outside on the front garden (The back is taken up with hawks and owls lol) and filled them all with water and F10 so they had a good clean. We hosed and scrubbed down the walls in the "rodent room" (tiles) and then flooded the floor with F10 water and hosed it out. Once we had put the tubs back into the racks we decided that we should buy an indoor cage for the males for the moment and decorate it properly but in the end we bought some wood and mesh and made a 3'x4' collapsable pen for them and decorated it out with ladders, ropes, hammocks etc so they are happy. And then after all this I get a call from the local rep shop "Hey, umm...Josh came into the shop today and said you bred rats and mice? well we are on a shortage as the supplier has stopped breeding and the customers arnt happy so was wondering if you had any you would be interested in selling..preferably frozen." sooooo we sold half of the rats and made room for the mice. We did the same with the mice but the mice live in zoozone cages anyway so we used the money from the rats and decorated the cages up for the mice and left them in the garage ontop of the rat cage. Win-WIN! Another long post though..gah lol.
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Post by harrisi on Jan 29, 2009 10:51:38 GMT -5
Went out to the rats this morning and all was good, I think they are puzzled though. Fed them all some lunch scraps and they were all happy! Mice are doing well, I think I might be getting another female to breed then one of my friends will be having 4 females from that litter and getting a male from elsewhere to breed. He has just started raw feeding his cats and after a year of trying they are eating whole prey so he feeds alot of mice and its getting expensive. As he only really has the space ontop of his wadrove to keep the mice I am going to give him 2 trays to the bottom of small animal cages and he will make a mesh top for them, 1 will be for mum and girl kits the other will be for dad and guy kits . I have also gave him some record cards to keep track of ages etc, the tattoo pens for marking out litters, food mix (oats, flaked peas, millet, freeze dried fruits/veggies and freeze dried meats) and some bedding Hopefully it will work out well for him as he has spent days helping with the feeders and it is something he has wanted to do for ages.
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Post by animalsgetrevenge on Jan 29, 2009 14:05:34 GMT -5
What a ton of work! It sounds like you use rubber maid tubs? If so, what size do you use? Do you use lids or leave the top off? Is there any way you could post photos for us?
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Post by harrisi on Jan 29, 2009 14:48:28 GMT -5
I don't use the brand name rubbermaid, but I do use the same kind of tubs. I cant remember what size I use, I know the "breeding" tubs are 64L/67 quart, other then that not a clue! sorry. I do leave the lids off but there is, in affect, a lid on the tubs. These are the kind of housing I use just bigger (I would suggest these to ANYBODY.) :http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n335/herp_boi/rodents/ro4.jpg . So basically the mesh grid makes for a top and you can put food on the top and the mice/rats pull the food through and there is no waste . The tubs pull out like draws and we work like that. Ours are made so we can pull the tubs right out aswell so we can set them out on a table or floor for easier cleaning or "harvesting". I will try get pics of the whole "rodent room" if I can borrow a camera tomorrow!
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Post by animalsgetrevenge on Jan 29, 2009 19:31:19 GMT -5
Looks awesome. Do you have the measurements of the tubs? How many rats do you keep in each tub and what gender? Did you build the frames or buy them? Sounds like a nice system.
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Post by harrisi on Jan 30, 2009 5:30:21 GMT -5
In that one in the picture? The tubs in that picture are 20"x28"x10". They house 1 male and 3 females and then any litters but litters are taken at the fuzzie stage so they are only just leaving the nest to run around and the mums have a week or two for rest between litters if he leave the male in so thats what he does. He built the frames, they are pretty easy if you have the plans aswell. It is definitly the best kind of housing for feeder mice.
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Post by harrisi on Jan 30, 2009 9:05:25 GMT -5
I just got a phone call from Jamie (helps with the feeder animals) and it went a little something like this: Jamie: Hey!!!! Me: Um...hi Jamie: You okay? Me: Yeah thankks hun you? Jamie: Yeah anyway!! You wouldnt believe what I have just found Me: Wouldnt I? Jamie: Well...maybe but anyway here goes, I was looking in the papers and found rabbits hutches for sale - free! Me: OK, and what do you want me to do about it? Jamie: Well...they err..they have other things with it like food, bedding, feeders, *mutters "a few animals"* and water hoppers and I thought maybe you would want them? Me: For what exactly? and for that matter where can I put them, and what "animals"? Jamie: Quail.. Me: Your kidding right? you want to breed quail? Jamie: Yeah. There is an incubator with it aswell. Please please pleeeeeeaaase can I put them in the rodent room and try breeding them? Me: well..ummm... Jamie: I love you.. Me: *sigh*, fine whatever. Jamie: thank youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu *hangs up* So hes on his way over with his dad, hes going to take us over in the van pick the up, drop them back off here and then go home so we can set them up. I had thought about breeding them before so know all the general care but its still pretty scary! but so exciting..even though I was a little hesitant about it at first lol. And one of the reasons I decided against it was that incubators are expensive, but this is perfect! according to the ad the hutches are 18"x36" and 8 tiers, there is 8 female quail and 1 male, the incubator is a home-built one made to keep 50 quail eggs at a time. We have said though, that since Jamie keeps chickens we might just get them to hatch the quail (they have done so before without problems) as we think the incubator will be expensive to run. I have got the cleaners ready to scrub the hutch out, anti-mite spray for the quail and the rest comes with them. Hopefully this will prove cost effective (it should). I have also planned out the rodent room to make space for the hutches and it is MUCH better anyway, so we have to try moving everything around when we get back .
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Post by animalsgetrevenge on Jan 30, 2009 10:50:20 GMT -5
Sounds exciting! I can't wait to hear an update!
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Post by harrisi on Jan 30, 2009 13:46:52 GMT -5
Thanks. Alrighty then! We went over, dismantled as much of the rabbit hutch we could, got the quail into carriers (poor little things, hated being separated to travel ), picked up the supplies and just as we were about to go she said "Let me know if you need any more quail! I breed them so have loads in the back garden!" so..we couldn't resist, we also brought home another two "flocks" of quail and about 20 eggs that are now in the incubator. Oh and best of all - she feeds her quail "naturally" ! She has an outdoor aviary that is planted with different types of grassed, grains etc and then she makes up a mix of oats, corn, dehydrated veggies, alfalfa pellets and something else I cant remember the name of to feed throughout the day and at night when she took them out of the aviary to be put inside the shed she fed a variety of veggies and salads I will hopefully be carrying this one, the downside is she is still working on foods for the chicks so until 4-5 weeks old they are given chick crumb and a small dish of finely diced veggies. But anyway, we got home and set the hutches back up, scrubbed them down with F10 and left them outside to dry whilst we moved the rat/mouse racks around and OMG the whole room is SO much better and roomier! We talked about prices with the lady who previously had the quail and she said that she had 24 adult quail and they were costing her (keep in mind all veggies were shop bought) on average £11 per month to keep, that's including bedding, cleaning supplies, food etc. so it should definitely be cost effective. But anyway, we bedded out the hutches put the quail into the hutches for the night and they will be going out into a play pen tomorrow to "forage" around on the garden. Oh and I found out they LOVE crickets, lol! My brother is in love and he kept feeding them crickets and meal worms and they were following him around the rodent room.
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Post by harrisi on Jan 30, 2009 14:58:07 GMT -5
Eeeeeek! I was just random googling feeder rat/mice things and a few feeder breeder ads popped up and one of them has Webster strain rats (for those of you who arnt familiar with the Webster strain, they are bred for health, size and litter size/quality. They have consistent litter sizes of 8-15 and are AMAZING health and tend to be best size aswell) so I emailed him and asked if I could go see the rats and he said sure, and I can have some for free. I will be getting 5 females that are 5 weeks old (they are 3 weeks old today) and keeping them until they are 15 weeks then putting them in with one of the males. As all the tubs are empty, I will put them into the holding/growing on bins as they are the biggest and then when the "deed has been done" the male will go back in with the all male colony. Oh and I should be getting 2 female mice soon. So for now the numbers are as followed: Mice: Breed able Males: 4 Breed able Females: 0 Young Males: 0 Young Females: 0 (awaiting reply from breeder) Litters produced: 186 to date Rats: Breed able Males: 8 Breed able Females: 0 Young Males: 0 Young Females: 5 Litters produced:375
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Post by harrisi on Jan 31, 2009 7:10:04 GMT -5
Mice: Breedable: 4.0.0 Young: 0.0.0 Litters produced: 186 to date Rats: Breedable: 8.0.0 Young: 0.5.0 Litters produced:375 Rabbits: Breedable: 0.0.0 Young: 0.0.0 Retired: 2.8.0 Litters produced: 18 Quail: Breedable: 3.15.0 Young: 0.0.0 Retired: 0.0.0 Clutches produced: N/A We had a suprise litter of rabbits this morning, but once this litter has grown up all rabbits will be retired (they are pretty young to be retired but we are saving up for some land [only got another £80 odd to go ] and it has a barn on it soooooo we will move all the outdoor pens onto the land during the day then the rabbits will go into cages inside the barn at night so we are retiring the rabbits now then when we have the land and barn we will get in some new rabbits to breed). We also plan to use some of the "free" money (me and Jamie keep a money and we add odd money here and there and we class that as "free" money as we dont need it but we use it for the animals) to get a quail aviary built and then we can plant loads of stuff in it, oh and we need another couple of chickens *eye roll* lol.
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Post by josiesmom on Jan 31, 2009 17:42:09 GMT -5
Wow! You guys have a neat little enterprise going!Good job! The description of your CO2 tub explains why prepackaged rodents do smell horrible. If they haven't accounted for the release of body fluis in death then of course the animals will smell. Also if there are a large anmount of animals piled in the chamber, then of course they'll get "peed" on.
I've used "cervical separation" as a method to dispatch them, for the times I haven't let the ferrets do it. These animals too, of course release urine when dead, but since they are dispatched one at a time - I don't have the issue of them contaminating each other.
Am happy to hear your endeavors have been successful!
Cheers, Kim
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