Mouse on Raw

[Forum Administrator]

Ah yes, def do secure the box (can't believe I forgot to tell you) before I secured MY box, the boys would push the box off the shelf and into the litter box (their way of saying "we want more food!!"

[mouse]

Well, box is secured. I cut the top flaps off. But she still isn't going for the game hen. She seems to think the box is there for her enjoyment and the item in the box is of no concern until she has pried herself between the box and the cage or has some how dislodged it. She is also attempting to dig in the box. Sigh. We will see how she does tonight. I will leave the meat overnight. I assume what is left in the morning is to be tossed?

She is driving me mad with the digging and knocking around...lol

EDIT: She seems to think the meat is supposed to be out of the box since she dragged it out. This time I tied it down so it can't leave the box... She doesn't seem happy with this... But isn't that the point of the box?

[Forum Administrator]

Put the meat OUTSIDE the box. She probably wants to be the one that decides where the meat goes. If you put it IN the box she'll probably want to move it OUT of the box since SHE didnt pick that place for her meat If you put it outside the box chances are she'll move the meat INSIDE the box I know, arent ferrets a pain in the ass?

As for eating the game hen, did you fast her 4-6 hours before offering the hen (and check to make sure she doesnt have any hidden stores of food that she could be munching on?). If she STILL refuses to eat fast her for up to 12 hours. THEN take the game hen, warm the outside of it SLIGHTLY by putting it onto a skillet. DONT cook it, just warm/sear the oustide. Then if she likes ferretone, put a few drops onto the meat. Also, cut gashes into the meat so that she can get a good grip.

Its possible that because shes been eating the pre-made GROUND food that she doesnt understahnd how to pull the meat off the bone. If THIS is the case, then we need to work her up to the game hen by slipping in chunks of raw chicken in with her premade ground. Then we will slowly reduce the amount of ground raw and increase the amount of chunks (as well as the size of the chunks) and then we will try the game hen again.

So dont get frustrated if she refuses the game hen tonight, or even if she refuses it after you heat it and cover it in ferretone. We still have a back-up plan, and if that doesnt work I have a dozen more tricks up my sleeve. We'll get her onto raw meaty bones, I promise. They dont' call me the "big bad holistic ferret mama" for nothin'

[mouse]

**slap self**

Okay, meat is out of the box. I think I will just buy another small plastic sided carrier to be her food den in her cage.

If you put it outside the box chances are she'll move the meat INSIDE the box I know, arent ferrets a pain in the ass?

OMG. They are such qwarky creatures. It can't be just mine that is insane. Sigh, still love her.

Oh, and yes. She hasn't eaten a thing since... yesterday morning as far as I can tell unless my bf sneaked her a little treat. I already taught him not to give the pets too much treats.

At the moment she is more amused with the box. We will see how she fairs for the night.

EDIT: She is finally eating after she exhausted herself playing with the box. The problem is, she wants to still drag it to her litter box. Lucky I still had a string on it which doesn't quite reach the litter box. Maybe she needs time to adjust to the box...

[Forum Administrator]

I've seen that ferrets seem to have this weird fascination with eating in the litter box. What gives? lol

I'm sure she'll get it eventually. If you like you can put a towel down in the box. Maybe she wants to eat ON something.

Silly ferrets

[tss]

Sorry I haven't been able to post, I've been re-doing my bedroom.

I think Mouse will get the hang of eating the meat outside of the litter box, for a while my fuzzies did that but they rarely ever do now. When they do it's really not even a big deal..They loved having a feeding box in their cage but I've really got to get a plastic one and secure it, they were more motivated to eat when they had it.

Do you have any questions?

Mouse shouldn't have much of a problem getting back into the swing of things, she's already eating off of large pieces which is great.

[mouse]

Well, lets go for a recap. Mouse didn't eat Thursday night but had about 0.5 oz of NV's venison in the morning. She finally ate Friday night with the cornish game hen left in her cage overnight. The chunk weighed 5.5 oz and it weighed 3.8 oz when I took it out this morning. So at most she ate 1.7 oz of meat last night...but chances are there are moisture loss...blah blah... so maybe 1.5 oz of food.

Is that enough for her considering she didn't eat the night before. To be honest, it doesn't seem like she eats enough or much. Even with NV's she seemed to only eat about 2 oz. She is not scrawny or bone thin. She is very very active when we have her out.

Last night she must have wore herself out because I found the box upside down pulled off the wall with one of the clamps thrown about and the bedding thrown on the floor. When I went to check on her, she didn't wake up right away and yawned a lot more than normal. I think she thought it was just all for play. She went back to bed again...

I plan to get Mouse a small plastic carrier to be her den, but not feeling all that well right now so not sure I will head out today or not. Tomorrow I probably will though. Tonight will be back to NV's. If I feel better tomorrow I will see about getting Mouse some more foods from the grocery store.

For some odd reason (now that I think about it) Mouse doesn't drag NV's into her litter box... She does move it around her cage all night though until it is devoured.

[mouse]

I hope to set up a more permanent feeding plan for Mouse and start it this upcoming week. We know she will eat a chunk of raw meaty bones still. I have had her since late January and I have given her so many types of food in the past, I hope it won't be an issue to reintroduce her to a new feeding plan. So how is this...

2 days NV's venison
3 days Cornish Game Hen
2 days Beef

Of the above, 2 days will be including organs (see below for more questions on organs). One day will also include a boiled egg. Possibly one day will include a pinkie mouse (if I can stomach getting and giving it). There may be times I offer Turkey or Lamb as well, but I will not serve pork (long story).

So how does that look?

I have a question on organs. How much?

I bought some organs today and put them into ice cube trays in the following portions:

0.4-0.5 oz liver
0.2-0.4 oz heart
0.2-0.4 oz gizzard
===================
0.8 to 1.3 oz of organs total each cube

Seeing as I am feeding Mouse 2 days of premade raw that already includes organs, I am really only have to make sure she is getting enough organs for the other 5 days. Would one of the above cubes be enough for those 5 days (assuming a pinkie might be added each week as well)?

It is always my biggest worry on feeding raw that they are getting enough organs in their diet and not too much.

[tss]

The menu looks decent, I was going to say it may need a bit less bone but your organ cubes also contain heart and gizzard and since those are really meaty meat it evens out. Do you have any idea (roughly) how much game hen and beef she would eat each week? She would need about 10% organ just like a dog so if you know how much beef and hen she eats we could figure it out.

[mouse]

Mouse seems to eat 2 oz of raw a day. So if 5 days are raw meaty bones it will equal 10 oz of meat a week. The other 2 days will be premade raw which already has organs.

So 5% of 10 oz is 0.5 oz. So I figured 0.4-0.5 oz of liver and the rest of the organs were within 0.2-0.4 each of them. But I figure heart is more of a muscle and not sure what gizzard is classified as. Sounds right?

Yes, I agree the game hen is boney. I figure when I feed mouse she gets a chunk that weighs more than she can eat so I hope she can eat more of the meat and less bone to balance it out since I am removing a lot of the bone section with some meat still on it. I do hear her crunching the bones though.

[Forum Administrator]

I think whole game hen (cut up into sections and fed over several days) is actually pretty decent for a meat/bone ratio. It IS a whole animal after all She might get a boney meal of game hen back one day, but eating game hen leg and thigh the next day will balance it out.

One thing I would like to see is you alternating between game hen and chicken and beef and veal (you can find veal for cheap when its near its expiration date. Trust me, if you are only feeding it every other week to one ferret it really wont cost an arm and a leg. I'm sorry if this means your ferrt eats better then you lol. I know mine eat better then me )

But anyway, the reason I want you to feed game hen one week (or one day) and then chicken the next week (or next time you feed chicken) and the thing with the beef/veal is because by adding different ages of animal you get more nutrient variety. As an animal ages its nutrient composition changes. You can reduce the risk of dietary deficiency by giving her the various ages.

Also, Switch up the part of chicken and cut of beef you feed (take advantage of what is on sale ) different body parts vary in nutrient composition so by switching it up you can ensure even more nutrient diversity (and thus lower the risk of dietary deficiency even more).

As for organ day, you are right, heart really isnt organ (nor are gizzards) but I like to include them in my mix on organ meat day. The other organ I'd like to see you include (if you can find it) is kidney. Obviously dont feed a whole beef kidney, just feed a small piece).

So to help you out it would make your schedule look something like this:

In whichever order you prefer:

2 days NV's venison
2 days Cornish Game Hen
1 day adult chicken (leg, thigh, or wing)
1 day veal
1 day beef (also feed a chicken neck on this day or on veal day. You ideal want to be feeding RMBs atleast 4 days per week (even if the NV contains bone)

Organ meat mix: Kindey, Liver, Gizzards, and Heart

[tss]

Sorry I missed your post Juli, I thought I checked this thread.

Giuliana, I didn't think to recommed chicken and game hen. I've always been told game hens are mini chickens, not young chickens. Some people do have moral issues with feeding veal though since it comes from cruley confined calves. I just tried going by the 3 meat minimum rule.

Chicken and game hens include kidney, over toward the spine and level to or up from the hip socket there is rich looking organ that looks MUCH like a brain tucked into a cup.

Try to aim for around 1oz or organ a week.

[mouse]

Never thought about age group of prey other than pinkies...

Okay, here is the plan for about half the week coming up. I will post how it goes or if I hit a snag.

Sunday : Game Hen piece
Monday: Chicken piece with one cube of organs
Tuesday: Beef chunk with boney meat (chicken neck if I can get it)
Wednesday: NV's venison

Got to go to the store tomorrow to pick up the chicken and beef...haha

[mouse]

Looks like I have hit a snag. Mouse barely ate any food last night as far as I can tell. I gave her Chicken Drum as the meal.

Mouse used to have a better appetite back when I had another ferret. It was the competition for food between them that made her grab/eat any food that was in their cage before the other ferret got to it. I remember rubbing ferretone on some of the meats to encourage the other ferret to try new meats, but Mouse rarely got picky. But since Mouse lives alone now and has no competition for food, she seems slower to eat. She is no glutton and seems to self regulate. I wish she would show immediate interest in food once it was offered.

Is it normal for a ferret her size to only consume 2 or less oz of food?

I guess I will try another Chicken Drum tonight and rub some ferretone on it this time. I hope it goes better than last night because it feels like such a waste of food.

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[tss]

Ferrets are just like people, one day you might eat a whole bunch and the next you might just have a few snacks. My ferrets eat between 1.5 and 2.5 ounces a day and they are both bigger then Mouse is so I wouldn't worry about the ammount she is eating.. Unless she decides not to eat at all for more then a day or two.

I do think that having two ferret incorages them to eat, they realize that if they don't eat when they are fed the other ferret may eat the food. If you ever decide to get another ferret see if you can find a rescue, they will be very honest and upfront about weather or not the ferret is litter or papper trained.