Mouse on Raw

[mouse]

1. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names, ages, genders, and do they have any health problems?

One female ferret named Mouse who has no health problems I am aware of. I have had her since late January and she looked to be very small and young. So her celebrated birthday is November 1, 2007.

2. What are your ferrets currently eating? What Kind of diet do you want to switch to?

Mouse has been on raw since about when I got her. I am not sure 100% I am doing it right so I would like some advice on how I am doing her diet. It has been about 8 months she has been on raw.

3. Please list the current weight for your ferret(s). Do they appear overweight? Underweight? How is there muscle tone?

The best I can approximate her weight to be is 30 oz. So that would be less than 2 pounds. 0.0 Sadly, I never weighed her until I saw this question here. Oh, and her tone seems fine. She seems like she could grain weight, but is not skinny or boney. She definitely doesn't need to lose weight.

4. What is the condition of your ferret's teeth/gums? (can you get a picture?)

Her gums are healthy pink with clean teeth. I actually had a look yesterday. For the picture though, she won't stay still long enough to get a clear shot.

5. Describe the texture/color of your ferrets coat.

Her coat is whitish with a yellow tinge which I see in many whitish ferrets. She does have some dark mark down her back and some across her shoulder. Her coat texture is coarser than I like (compared to dogs), but I notice more white ferrets with the not as soft texture. Her coat is not harsh though.

6. How often does your ferret go to the bathroom?

Honestly no clue. She goes when she needs to. I clean out her box once every 3 days and it doesn't even stink badly.

7. Does your ferret's feces and/or urine smell?

When I had a ferret before her who was on kibble, his poop stank. But Mouse's litter box smells fine. There is less of that ferret odor and I don't have to clean the box out often. Not like she eats much either though. One thing that did strike me odd is that her poop doesn't have the same firm consistency as my dogs do on the same raw foods. Wierd...

8. Smell your ferret. How strong is their odor?

Her odor is bearable. It doesn't reek the whole apartment, which I worried about when I got her. She does get a bath once a month though to minimize odors and her bedding/cage is cleaned every week.

9. On a scale of 1-10, 1 being completely lethargic and 10 being "through the roof!" what is your ferret's energy level?

Oh, Mouse is crazy. I would say 8 though. There are times she is calmer, but then there are those times she is hyper and hilarious. She is by no means lethargic.

10. How excited is your ferret about meal time (when fed kibble)?

Mouse will eat anything. There have been times I put kibble down and she eats it all up. She eats up my dog's treats too and anything they eat. I don't feed her canned though because I heard it makes for very stinky poop.

11. What other information about your ferret(s) would you like to share?

When I bought her early this year, she was being fed Marshalls at the pet shop. I switched her to raw when she came home. I used to feed mostly grocery store chicken with organs, but lately have gone to using premade raw by Nature's Variety. (Same stuff my dogs eat.) Currently it is venison. I don't weigh her food so not sure how much to give her. She eats anything I give her very well including treats (Ziwi Peak and Wellness Pure Rewards). I want to know if I am doing things correctly. Help make sure I am doing it right.

[Forum Administrator]

The best way for me to evaluate Mouse's diet is for you to post a weekly feeding schedule. Give me an idea of what she eats every week (it doesnt have to be exact, just a general idea). Copy/paste this list below into your post and fill in what she usually eats each week

MONDAY:
TUESDAY:
WEDNESDAY:
THURSDAY:
FRIDAY:
SATURDAY:
SUNDAY:

then we'll go from there

[mouse]

Right now it is:

MONDAY: NV's Venison
TUESDAY: NV's Venison
WEDNESDAY: NV's Venison
THURSDAY: NV's Venison
FRIDAY: NV's Venison
SATURDAY: NV's Venison
SUNDAY: NV's Venison

Next Wednesday I will probably be getting some Chewy & Stella's Chicken or perhaps Beef. The NV's (Nature's Variety) I buy are 6 pounds of 0.5 pound patties. A patty is 8 oz. I had chicken thighs, but they turned (went icky) too soon. They smelled sour so I had to throw it out.

[Forum Administrator]

Okay, I'd definitly like to see some more variety of protein in there. Venision is great, but see if you can include other types of meat too, I know NV carries a few types of meats.

In addition I'd like to see Mouse starting to eat some raw meaty bones, in order to get the teeth cleaning benefits. Will mouse eat chunks of meat, bones? or just the ground raw?

[mouse]

Mouse has eaten meaty bones in the past with no problem other than dragging it to her litter box. I had to tie the meats down so she wouldn't do that. Another annoying factor is finding bones thrown out of the cage and on the carpet... ick It got kinda gross at times... so I went the lazy route and went premade. I suppose I should go back to the meaty bones though. Funny how retrospect makes you rethink things.

I guess this weekend I will buy a one pound game hen and split it in half. One half goes to Mouse and the other to my dog. Then each of their half pieces cut in half again to make quarters but each pet will have thigh, wing, breast, etc. Then I suppose I got to buy some chicken livers. I do hate organs. They are always packaged a ton more than I need and are icky.

How does this look for next week? Would this be better long term?
2-3 days Game Hen with liver (depends how long it takes her to eat both quarters)
4-5 days NV's venison

Btw, how much is she supposed to eat a day? I have been feeding her once a day at night.

[tss]

Hey Juli!! It's awesome to have you here :-)

A good way to feed whole meaty bones is to put a feeding den in Mouse's cage. Just use a dark box of some sort that Mouse can go in, she will bring her food in there to eat it and she will stash anything she doesn't want to eat so all you would have to do is clean the stashes out.

I know that you had mentioned feeding mice before, were you not able to get Mouse on mice? If so we should be able to help tha t happen.

The game hen is good but it really is best of you can throw in some lamb, beef, pork, goat, etc.

Ferrets are different then dogs, they should be few all they will eat, my ferrets eat between 2 and 4 ounces a day between the both of them. I also feed them once a day, there aren't a whole lot of people who do but I do.

If you don't mind my asking, what happened to Jack?

[mouse]

I will try a stash box idea. What material or item should this box be? Cardboard or plastic container? Will she try to use it as a potty box?

It seems I have veered off course with Mouse and my pups (well only one is eating raw right now... sigh). It has been so easy to just throw down some premade and I didn't have to proportion icky organs. (Premade looked so good because I didn't have to touch, cut, portion, and then end up with an excess of of organs in the freezer.)

I did try a mouse with Mouse...haha The thing is, I got really squeamish. She didn't eat it well and it looked pretty gross. Now a button quail outside for one of my dogs who eats quickly isn't as bad. But Mouse takes FOREVER to eat her food. She eats a little here, and a little there. So what I give her at night might be slowly eaten until morning. And honestly, I don't think she is eating near 4 oz. I would say closer to 2 oz if anything. I don't measure though and probably should...

I will try to get Mouse back on track with more meat varieties. But this week I will start off with Game Hen. (Not much a point to feed just regular sized chicken is there when feeding game hen?) I would like to finish this bag of NV's patties. The next bag I buy I get one free from a frequent buyer program. From then on I will probably not buy a bag bigger than the medallions for more exotic meats again.

Btw, how many different meat sources are ideal? What source of organs is best? Chicken or beef? If I recall, it was better to feed my dogs more red meat organs than chicken... What about ferrets?

[mouse]

Aug 29, 2008 6:51:26 GMT -5 tss said:

If you don't mind my asking, what happened to Jack?

Jack had some potty issues. I tried so many things that were suggested, but in the end I don't think anything would have really helped. Also, it had got to the point that the ferrets were restricted to the bottom level of the FN 142 cage and had 2 huge litter boxes take up most of the floor. Various items cluttered the bottom in an attempt to stop him from pooping in the wrong spot and I couldn't even give them a shelf. In the end, he kept pooping in the kitchen area of the cage so he had to go. Luckily I had previously talked to a co-worker who has many ferrets and said she would take him if it doesn't work out for me way before I quit trying. So Jack lives with her and her ferrets. Poop is not such a big deal there since others had issues to start anyways.

Mouse on the other hand now has a lot more room and I hope is doing better. She never misses the box.

[tss]

With cardboard you would have to replace it ounce it gets nasty so it you can find a dark plastic box then it would be best. She should not try using the bathroom in it since there is no litter.

I understand what you mean about premade, for me the closest thing to remade is me taking home a goat or something and cutting it into 1 pound pieces and taking how ever many I need out of the freezer when I need it.

If she eats 2 ounces a day then that's fine, that is where mine max out. Most of the time if I give them 4 ounces they don't finish it all. Ferrets do seem to nit pick at their food instead of eating a meal in one sitting like dogs do.

I think they say to aim for 3 or 4 kinds of meat at the minimum, chicken and turkey would count as 2. Game hen and chicken are the same so just feed whatever is easier for you. With ferrets red verses white meat doesn't really matter, if possible try feeding both chicken and beef organs. They both have different values.

ETA: I'm sorry about what happened with Jack, some ferrets are just like that. The only place my ferrets potty besides the boxes is the corner behind my door, they might try a couple times a week but I just lay some paper back there.

[mouse]

Okay, I bought a game hen. It is defrosting in the fridge, so should be ready in a day or two. Then I will get Mouse started back on more variety.

[mouse]

I chopped up the game hen into 4 pieces. I gave Mouse the section that has the breast and wing which weighed 5.5 oz. The problem is, little miss silly is ignoring her food and just playing. How long am I supposed to leave it out? Should I just take it away and wait until tomorrow night? She has been used to having premade raw in her cage all night for her to nibble on. Time for a change?

EDIT: I ended up taking the meat out. Guess I will try tomorrow night.

[Forum Administrator]

Bone in meat can be left out for up to 24 hours. Remove sooner if it starts to smell (it shouldnt though if its only out 24 hours).

It might help to fast her for 4-6 hours before you offer the food. Has she had raw meaty bones before, or just the pre-made raw?

[mouse]

When I first got Mouse, my other ferret at the time Jack was on raw already. Mouse was a natural and young, so she dove into the idea of raw and hardly skips a beat on new foods. When I did give up Jack, I slowly started feeding Mouse a more pre-made diet. It took longer for her to finish portions and made for some interesting finds on the floor (bones, meat chunks, etc).

When I did feed her meat bones, she would eat for the one hour it was offered. Maybe with Jack more as a form of competition. I made her lazy I suppose when I started feeding her premade which stayed in her cage overnight and removed leftovers in the morning. So I don't think she realizes she has to rush at all.

I do admit though I did give her 0.5 oz of premade this morning which I normally don't do, but I didn't think it would cause a problem with her hunger at night. Tonight she had nothing. She knew the meat was there and just dragged it around saving it for later. I will try again tomorrow night which I am sure she will be hungry by then to see how it goes. Hopefully she will learn to eat when food is offered. I don't like the idea of leaving meaty bones laying around her cage at night. Even my dogs are on a strict schedule of eating. Food is only offered once or twice a day. Best eat when offered or wait until next feeding time...

[Forum Administrator]

You can leave the meat out for up to 24 hours. If you feed her in the cage and provide a "feeding den" a plastic or wood box for her to store her "treasures" in, then she'll probably do better with the raw meaty bones. My ferrets dont sit and eat all their food in one meal. They come back and pick at it. With dogs set meal times might be a good idea, but honestly in my opinion a ferret needs time to eat its food. They are naturally inclined to "cache" or store their food, so expecting them to eat in one sitting is (in a way) going against their natural instinct. Plus a ferret has a short digestive tract and while I dont believe they need to eat EVERY 3-4 hours, I DO think that they have a small stomach and there is no way they can consume all the meat and bone that they need in one or two meals per day. They have a high metabolism and thus a high daily caloric requirement, but they need to "graze" throughout the day. All that food just wont fit in their little tummies at once.

I know the idea of leaving meat out all night might not appeal to you, but consider this: bone-in meat can be left out for up to 24 hours before you need to pitch it. It SHOULD NOT begin to "stink" during those 24 hours. Most likely when you wake in the morning there will be little to no raw food left. If she feels she has time to eat her food, she'll probably actually eat it Using the "stash box" idea can help to keep the meat from being hidden else where in the cage. My ferrets have a Ferret Nation model 142. I have cute bedding and blankies on all floors except for ONE of the half-floors. That is where the feeding box is and that surface is where they eat their food. They are very good about not sneaking food to other areas of the cage.

With a ferret, your best bet is to work WITH her instinct and not against it. A feeding cave and leaving the food out for her to eat will certainly make things easier on her (and you).

[mouse]

Okay, will see if I can get a box at work today. I assume open top or side works. I will probably have to see what I can do to clamp it down though because Mouse will just end up shoving it all over the cage making a ruckus. I had to clamp down her litter box to keep her from pushing it all over the cage (some at odd hours) and doing her own redecoration every day. -.-