candiceboggs
Going Natural
Ferrets are nature's anti-depressant.
Posts: 187
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Post by candiceboggs on Jan 8, 2011 21:48:12 GMT -5
So most of you know by now my goal was to find a breeder that would sell me a kit completely Naturally Reared with NO vaccinations, fed totally raw from weaning and onward. I'm struggling not to cry right now because all of my options have run out. I contacted several breeders and had my request leaked (unawares to me) to a list where controversy broke out and some breeders thought it might be o.k., and those that didn't it sounds like used intimidatory tactics to coerce those breeders into complying with the standard protocol. That was incredibly discouraging. I did have one person try to push a ferret on me till they found I was unrelenting on the vaccination issue, and had never had my own ferret before, just cared for someone else's. This was upsetting, because, what, I have to either go against my beliefs in order to adopt (contract stipulations I have investigated already) or support a mill (I have felt the grief from doing this before) in order to, in the long run be able to purchase a healthy ferret??? What screwy logic!! There were two reputable breeders here in Washington. I e-mailed both. One did not respond, the other I liked very much, and this breeder gave it some thought, but ultimately decided no, she couldn't do it. I know a lot of these people have what they know to be the good of their ferrets at heart here but it hurts and is discouraging because there truly are natural ways to prevent/treat/encourage immunity for distemper (not trying to get into a debate on this, just venting) and allopathy is NOT the only way! I'm just at my wits' end here...I apologize for the rant. I don't know what is left for me to do.
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taratee
Cageless and Roamin' Free
Posts: 255
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Post by taratee on Jan 8, 2011 22:18:59 GMT -5
im so sorry miss, i wish i had more words for you but i dont
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Post by maddiesmom on Jan 8, 2011 22:25:29 GMT -5
((((hugs))) I'm so sorry! That's got to be really disheartening. Depending on the location and laws and stuff, it may not be legal to "sell" a kit without proper vaccinations. Just a thought... There's a list of natural breeders here somewhere on the forum -- have you tried any of those? Some are well worth the distance
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candiceboggs
Going Natural
Ferrets are nature's anti-depressant.
Posts: 187
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Post by candiceboggs on Jan 8, 2011 22:33:35 GMT -5
((((hugs))) I'm so sorry! That's got to be really disheartening. Depending on the location and laws and stuff, it may not be legal to "sell" a kit without proper vaccinations. Just a thought... There's a list of natural breeders here somewhere on the forum -- have you tried any of those? Some are well worth the distance Yes, I have. None of them will do no vax. Most (all but one, perhaps) of them only feed partially raw. Got to be honest here, but the law sometimes takes a backseat to the health of my children in fur suits. It's not so much an invasion of privacy to me as it is a restriction of my personal beliefs and freedoms. I'm on a list with a bunch of other people who either keep a low profile over this issue, or try to move to a state/county without rabies laws.
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vkp23
Going Natural
Posts: 192
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Post by vkp23 on Jan 8, 2011 22:34:59 GMT -5
I totally feel your pain! With all the trouble I have had with trying to get in contact with the shelters here. It wasn't until a lady from ANOTHER shelter contacted me that I was able to find a couple ferret buddies for my Miko. I'm picking them up tomorrow. But something just clicked when I read this post. The lady told me to be careful about who I mention switching to raw to. She said most of the people within the shelters group, 100% disagree with feeding raw. So much so to the point that a HUGE fight had broke out once because of talking about it. She said she personally looks at it that #1 it's what they would eat in the wild #2 Thinks it IS SO much better physically and mentally for the ferret. #3 gave me HUGE kudos for taking on the challenge. She said she would do it but doesn't have the time or money to do it. She instead feeds high quality foods with absolutely no grains or fillers. Sorry I'm trailing off, any way, I wondered if the shelter owners wouldn't contact me because i said in my E-mails and forum posts that I was planning on switching to raw. I think, thanks to your post, I may have found my answer as to why no one would talk to me.
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Post by mustelidmusk on Jan 8, 2011 23:08:09 GMT -5
I do know somebody else who was breeding in Washington. Last I knew, she was having some serious health issues....I will check into whether or not she is still breeding. -jennifer
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candiceboggs
Going Natural
Ferrets are nature's anti-depressant.
Posts: 187
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Post by candiceboggs on Jan 8, 2011 23:16:20 GMT -5
I do know somebody else who was breeding in Washington. Last I knew, she was having some serious health issues....I will check into whether or not she is still breeding. -jennifer Thanks, Jennifer.
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Post by maddiesmom on Jan 8, 2011 23:21:55 GMT -5
I totally feel your pain! With all the trouble I have had with trying to get in contact with the shelters here. It wasn't until a lady from ANOTHER shelter contacted me that I was able to find a couple ferret buddies for my Miko. I'm picking them up tomorrow. But something just clicked when I read this post. The lady told me to be careful about who I mention switching to raw to. She said most of the people within the shelters group, 100% disagree with feeding raw. So much so to the point that a HUGE fight had broke out once because of talking about it. She said she personally looks at it that #1 it's what they would eat in the wild #2 Thinks it IS SO much better physically and mentally for the ferret. #3 gave me HUGE kudos for taking on the challenge. She said she would do it but doesn't have the time or money to do it. She instead feeds high quality foods with absolutely no grains or fillers. Sorry I'm trailing off, any way, I wondered if the shelter owners wouldn't contact me because i said in my E-mails and forum posts that I was planning on switching to raw. I think, thanks to your post, I may have found my answer as to why no one would talk to me. I have noticed, but I wasn't really going to say anything... its purely anecdotal, but my experience has been shelters/rescues are the same as yours... they were much more AGAINST raw, and then the private breeders more open to it, and a good portion partially fed raw as well. But I definitely agree with you about laws and matters of health I don't know any breeders who'd risk it, though -- otherwise I'd share Some over seas, maybe. But I don't think you could get them over the pond without proof of vaccinations. Good luck on your search!!!
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Post by Heather on Jan 9, 2011 0:17:41 GMT -5
For one you have my sympathies, I know where you're at and understand the issue. I know where you stand but truthfully, without those initial vaccines you're not going to get anything If you get them from a shelter, they will be vaccinated....that is protocol. If you purchase from a breeder they vaccinate. They have to give a rabies vaccine after a certain number of months because they have to abide the law of their state. As far as I know, they all give distemper as part of their kit vaccination protocol...one consideration is to see if your breeder will accept using a nosodes such as was suggested in another post. I'm not saying that they will, but it is a suggestion. If you buy a farm ferret, they vaccinate as well. As far as raw some breeders do feed and you may be able to convince a breeder to allow your kit not to eat kibbles, but again, that means segragating your kit from the others at mealtimes...those on this list know all about having ferrets switching at different levels. It's a lot of work. Lets face it....they're selling these kits, most people that they have as customers are not as progressive, they're going to feed kibbles. Those kits have to know how to eat kibbles. Those that feed raw, often don't feed a whole lot of kibble to their breeders.....though many have run scared after a few of them ran afoul of the specific calcium needs of their jills. So, their solution was to start feeding kibbles again . You go with what works, and what you know, unfortunately. If you import your ferret from a foreign breeder, it is mandatory (at least according to everything I've read) that they have their distemper and rabies before they leave. Now, I know that if your kit is under 4 months you can "possibly" transport your ferret across the Canadian/US border. The unfortunate thing about this is that it's entirely dependent on the state the kit is being imported into. To bring the kit into Canada, if the kit is under 4 months we don't have to vaccinate for rabies (but because there is a record of transport, they will check up (this is part of their health follow up) to make sure that the vaccine is given. If you're going to import you have to go through the Food and Drug administration, clear it to import and get the paper work for your state. Very few breeders will consent to ship their baby fuzzes (even their adult fuzzes) without getting to know who they're shipping to. If you're a first time ferret owner, they often expect you to come to them to see and handle their fuzzes and get to know you. Breeder ferrets are known to be a bit notorious when it comes to attitude Most of this information you're already discovering or have discovered . One thing to consider...if you're feeling the need to purchase a farm ferret...Take a look at the options you have available and what concessions you're willing to make to get where you want to go. Farm ferrets already have their vaccines but they're babies and they're relatively easy to switch, but they will have never known raw food nor will their parents. Get a shelter ferret and give a fuzz a new life. You can switch to raw and stop using any form of vaccine as your choice. My understanding depending where and what shelter you use that you can get some very young ferrets. Problems...you've no idea what the little ones past is. Go with the Breeders, deal with the vaccines, feed raw as you want and discontinue vaccinations. Any of the methods that are actually available to you are going to involve: vaccines and kibbles. Unlike dogs, there are no natural ferret breeders who don't vaccinate and don't feed kibbles. If you lived in Europe you could get a totally raw fed ferret and possibly one that had not got it's distemper shot...but a lot are leaning toward at least the primary shots for even their own ferrets. These ferrets are hunters and apt to encounter the disease. I really wish you luck, but at the moment cannot think of one possible way for you to avoid either kibble or vaccines . Perhaps, with patience and further study you might find what you want....I wasn't able to. ciao
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candiceboggs
Going Natural
Ferrets are nature's anti-depressant.
Posts: 187
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Post by candiceboggs on Jan 9, 2011 0:34:05 GMT -5
Hi, Heather. Thanks for taking the time to post that. Yes, I already know all that. I sound so nit-picky, don't I? But you "get it". Ethics is where I'm having trouble reasoning my way around these issues. I was trying as suggested to give breeders the benefit of the doubt and at least ask if they would consider not vaccinating for me. But the closest I got was one wanting to do the first two distemper shots at 11 and 14 weeks and that's it, plus kibble mixed with raw. But consenting to have vaccines done when I feel they are so damaging would, I am thinking, be hypocritical of me. I could get a Marshall's that has only had ONE temporary shot and switch it to raw, but then ethics challenges me again because of supporting mills and going through the grief of an animal bound (it's likelier) to die from a debilitating illness, such as I've experienced with my rodent mill Fancy Mice. I literally CANNOT adopt because all of the adoption places here require contracts and home visits to check up on me and make sure I am vaccinating and feeding a commercial food. Upon discovery that I am not doing these things, they can take the ferret back. This is a real conundrum. I would have pursued adoption, regardless of the kibble/vaccine background (I wouldn't have inflicted it on them, after all) as my first alternate plan upon breeders not working out, except for what they legally bind you into doing here. I can't do it. Nosodes is an idea, I don't remember that being mentioned... But I highly doubt any breeder would consent to them. "Exposing a ferret to distemper UNVACCINATED??? You're INSANE." *can hear it now*
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Post by Heather on Jan 9, 2011 0:43:00 GMT -5
You do realize that if most shelters are too busy to return your calls they're much too busy to do a follow up visit to check up to see if you're vaccinating. Generally speaking though they make a big deal (and they will only if you do) that's the least of their worries. You will probably have to deal with a house visit, to make sure you're acceptable (I do those too). From there most shelters that I've known may call to see how things are going a month or so later and a really conciencious shelter will follow up with a phone call in a year but they're not going to continue track you down. They just don't have the time or the people. ciao
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candiceboggs
Going Natural
Ferrets are nature's anti-depressant.
Posts: 187
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Post by candiceboggs on Jan 9, 2011 1:28:21 GMT -5
I'm afraid I didn't realize that. . . There are three shelters/networks for ferrets here.
The first one is out of the question, think I mentioned it to you before.
The one close to me is very small and does not have very many ferrets, and in their contract it states they WILL visit you in your home a year after the adoption takes place to make sure everything is going according to the agreement.
The other one is 3-4 hours drive away, and has the exact same contract as the second one.
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Post by Heather on Jan 9, 2011 1:33:29 GMT -5
You could always adopt and play the wait and see game. If they show up, tell them you were going to make a date for vaccines...I hate lying to shelters but this part is the only part that I will stretch the truth on. Either that or make sure that you've already had your vet visit with all the paper work and that your vet has suggested that you hold off on your vaccines or go for the titres. Most vets are more than willing to do that for the distemper. It's almost free if you participate in the program, the only thing is you have to know how old your ferret is. ciao
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candiceboggs
Going Natural
Ferrets are nature's anti-depressant.
Posts: 187
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Post by candiceboggs on Jan 9, 2011 2:06:16 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I got lost along the way somewhere in there.
So what is almost free if you participate in what program?
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Post by Heather on Jan 9, 2011 2:14:58 GMT -5
Dr Ruth started a program (she's a ferret breeder by the way, a really big person on in the ferret community). It's a distemper titre program...Mungo's (?)I know that's not the little fellows name. He died when he reacted to a distemper vaccine that he was given. Dr Ruth couldn't save him the reaction was so violent and so fast, she lost him. Someone posted the link in the distemper thread that was going on. It is Mungo www.ferret.org/news/07-april-titer_study.htmlciao
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