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Post by katt on Sept 19, 2010 15:22:39 GMT -5
lol just watchedthe video again and you cna't see it too well. He closes his mouth too fast.
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Post by mustelidmusk on Sept 19, 2010 19:49:20 GMT -5
Heather - that was EXACTLY what I noticed and had typed up when the system ate my post. ....I dd not notice an ulcer but his throat is REALLY RED.
The other thing I wanted to mention is that during the face shots - when he's yawing, etc...he's licking his lips and wallowng more tn normal.....one of the times he swallows, you'll notice that he rapidly nod his head once...when he is swallowing - like he has a sore throat.
This is a symptom that's consistent with GI issues. My first two brats would get this when they had giardia flareups, which gave them acid reflux. My IBD boy got a ht palette ulcer that was o bad that my vet felt it should be biopsied. The d**n ulcer seemed to po up over night.
I expect that Koda may be in for a run of antibiotics (perhaps a combo) , tummy coating meds such as carafate, and perhaps an antacid as well. The vet will come up with a plan.
I'm posting before I lose this.... -jennifer
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Post by Heather on Sept 19, 2010 20:37:58 GMT -5
That's what I thought, Jennifer. Don't feel badly hurricanekatt, if you aren't used to catching those flash in the air symptoms you miss them. It unfortunately, comes with experience Loki and Nico did very well with the various antibiotics and gastro assistant drugs. It's time consuming (the timing has to be right) but they're very effective and surprisingly not that expensive. I believe the drug of choice for my two boys was clavamox, there was another one...the name escapes me but it really stressed out Nico (it tastes absolutely foul). Porthos found himself on it too and it tasted so foul that it had to be administered over the toilet (poor boy would pee himself). As you see, this isn't uncommon and probably one of "the" most common ferret problems. Though it does have a tendency toward chronic at least it's treatable. ciao
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Post by mustelidmusk on Sept 19, 2010 21:53:43 GMT -5
I watched the video again....the front part of the roof of his mouth seems white (especially relative to the soft palette/red). I assume this is where the bump is?
If you watch the video, put the mouse pointer/"cursor" over the little circle that you can use to drag the slider bar in the video. You'll see that a time is displayed showing how long the video has been playing. Slide the circle to about 2:30 and leave the mouse pointer over the circle. The time will be displayed even though you've released the mouse button (as long as the pointer is over that "drag circle"). If you've been able to follow my whacky instructions, you'll want to watch Koda at 2:59 into the video. At 2:59, Koda quickly nods his head when he swallows. His mouth/throat seem to be bugging him.
For Probios.... * Rxbiotics 1/8 tsp with each meal. * Healthy Flora (Bowtrol) - 1/8 tsp with each meal. * Theralac 1/8 tsp with each meal.
If Koda is on oral antibiotics, give the probios between the antibiotics. Feed the antibiotics with food unless instructed to do otherwise. Ideally, give the probios half way between antibiotic doses. If you can't find the above probios, look for probios that contain acid-resistant strains since they are more effective.
For general vitamins, * Basic Feline Nutrients (Thorne Research)
Also.... You will not need to run out and buy all these things immediately - it will take a while to sort things out and figure out what works best for Koda. The important thing now is to follow the vet's recommendations to get Koda "uninflamed" and healed up. we can then work to find the things that help Koda maintain a good balance in his tummy to help prevent flare-ups.
I recall that your vet recommended vitamins....if your vet did not recommend a specific brand, you may want to try the Basic Feline Nutrients (Thorne Research) or ask your vet if she has a recommendation.
Are you still adding bulk to the diet? How is that going?
Also, I will try to post a picture of one of my first two ferrets (before and after) so you can see what good vet care can do for a VERY sick animal - you'll see that predisone is NOT evil.
-jennifer
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Post by mustelidmusk on Sept 19, 2010 22:13:17 GMT -5
Well, I managed to get a picture pasted into a post one other time without "barf bucket" (photo bucket). But I have no clue how I dd it. I'll try this later. Koda may do better on all whole prey - he may do better on a cooked diet. It's all trial and error. -jennifer
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Post by katt on Sept 19, 2010 23:25:59 GMT -5
I will look at the video to see what you are talking about. I'l be sure to mention it to the vet too. *taking notes* The roof of his mouth is a little white, and I looked at his throat tonight (tried to take pics and all I got was closing mouth and tongue 5 times haha) and it didn't seem red, but it was hard to see anyways. The vet will be able to tell better than me. She didn't make a specific recommendation for vitamins that I recall, but I will ask her when we go in. I slowed down a bit on the bulk because I was trying to feed ONLY turkey and absolutely nothing else for a bit in case the squash was part of the problem. I got an ice cube tray for him though and I am going to get some squash, mushrooms, and iceberg lettuce and blend it all up with some water and make fiber cubes that I can crush up and put in with his meat. Would grated squash, or squash baby food be better? The stores don't have canned pumpkin atm. I have to drive across town to a different store to see if they have it... And thanks for the tip on him not looking too skinny. He has lost some weight, but it is a relief to know that he isn't too skinny looking.
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Post by katt on Sept 20, 2010 2:13:53 GMT -5
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Post by katt on Sept 20, 2010 2:55:54 GMT -5
Here is a better picture of his pale nose and ears...
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Post by mustelidmusk on Sept 20, 2010 9:23:26 GMT -5
Now you can see what SKINNY/Unhealthy really is... the first picture is one of my first two boys, Sabre, at the age of 3. He had lymphoma. The second picture is Sabre at 6.5 years old. He lived to be over seven. He was on pred. quite a bit throughout his life. Pred is good stuff when it's needed. (Let's see if I can get these pictures to work! Sabre with lymphoma - age 3.... Attachments:
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Post by mustelidmusk on Sept 20, 2010 9:26:47 GMT -5
Sabre at age 6.5... cured of lymphoma. He lived to be over 7. The pred was a big part of helping Sabre with his issues. Now you can really see what I mean when I say I have a really awesome ferret vet!!! -jennifer Attachments:
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Post by mustelidmusk on Sept 20, 2010 9:30:17 GMT -5
If you click on those pictures, they get bigger so you can really see the diff.
BTW - Koda does not seem anemic from what I can see (basing this on color on the computer and he seems active /not lethargic. - he may have been inflamed/allegy or response to infection before? Althogh monitors do very.
-jennifer
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Post by katt on Sept 20, 2010 13:37:02 GMT -5
Wow that really is quite a difference! he looks great in the second picture! I gave Koda a mouse last night (first one from my breeding babies! Yaay!) and this morning I played a trick on him. I put in his breakfast, and waited until he was eating that. Then I slipped a frozen mouse into his box so that it will thaw and he will have another meal later in the day! That way I can get in 3 meals without needing to be home to do so! I want to try giving him a mouse a day to see if the extra natural fiber helps. Then the rest of his meals will be his normal meats. I need to pick up rats for my snake Shiiva today, so I will get some mice tor Kodster too.
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Post by Heather on Sept 20, 2010 15:19:24 GMT -5
Will Koda eat rats? I cut a rat in half leave it frozen for the brats if I'm going to be away longer than feed time. It means that it gets dragged around and eaten a bit by everyone and no one goes hungry. Judging from your photos...monitors are different Koda's colour looks good. I will see if I can find a photo of Loki just before he passed and that will give you an example of anemic. I think Koda looks good. I know that you're having digestive issues with him, but he looks good. He's still getting good nutritional value from his food, he's just not processing it as well as he should. Now, it's a matter of figuring out just what he needs and if you can heal it. Wonderful photos, Jennifer. No, I have to agree with regarding pred. I classify it as the drug I love to hate but wouldn't be without. Aremis lived for a whole year after diagnosis of an aggressive lymphosarcomas and lived well. No, it didn't put it into remission but he certainly lived well right up until the last week or so. ciao
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Post by katt on Sept 20, 2010 16:35:32 GMT -5
Yeah...about rats...I am glad you reminded me! lol I need to get some smaller ones. This was the last time I tried feeding Koda a rat: holisticferret.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=prey&action=display&thread=5443It scared me so I haven't tried since. He had eaten rats before that but it had been a while. And, I take it back I think I tried once since then but he simply would not eat it. It may have been because he had been cooped up and just wanted to play. I will try again. Rats are higher in protein than mice, but which is "healthier" for ferts?
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Post by mustelidmusk on Sept 20, 2010 16:59:56 GMT -5
Sabre went through a light chemo, and the pred seemed to keep him in remission for over 4 years. He was not on pred. 100% of the time, but he was on it more than he was off it. He never developed any issues from it and he would have been dead without it. He was uttterly pathetic during the time of the first picture. At 3, he lost his first adrenal gland and went through chemo. At four he lost his second adrenal gland. He had all kinds of other issues too, even multuple surgeries and scepticemia twice when he was 5 and 6. His brother was no better. They were both from the same litter, and we knew we were "in for it" the second week we had them...it was apparent that these kids were VERY prone to problems. They were both so sweet. In spite of all their problems and expense, I'm so glad I got those two boys - they were so sweet!!!
I still can't believe my vet was able to pull our 2 boys through so much - especially when I look at that picture of Sabre in that first picture. That was a really scary time for us.
-jennifer
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