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Post by mustelidmusk on Sept 16, 2010 8:44:19 GMT -5
Although symptoms of ADV vary, Koda doesn.t sound like he has ADV. If I had to make a guess/bet about Koda's problem, it sonds like he may have a touch of IBD. Male ferrets tend to have more GI issues than females. He sounds like one of my first two boys, Schitzo. We never biopsied Schitty for IBD since the treatments for whatever was bothering him were the same as for IBD. And yes, Schitty would vomit on occasion. ANother way to test for IBD is prednisone. (Preferably prednisolone). Ferrets that have IBD issues are commonly with pred. when a flare-up persists. While pred is not a healthy thing to be taking, it reduces inflammation. Chronic inflammation can result in damages tissues thus affecting the ability of the bowel to absorb nutrients. Antibiotics are commonly given as well. Oddly enough, antibiotics seemed to help my Schitty even if there is no obvious excess of bacteria. I will get the probio info to you ASAP - work is kicking up (from behind - LOL!!!) and I'm trying to wrap up an important package for a special project... I have one technical detail left to resolve Hang in there...I know how frustrating this poop thing can be. Been there with my Schitty, and it drove me NUTS!!!! -jennifer
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Post by katt on Sept 16, 2010 16:09:24 GMT -5
IBD is my main thought too. So do you think it is worth it to bring him in? I mean I probably will bc I would hate for it to be something else. I am seriously running out of funds though! Between my car, my iguana, and Koda... *shakes head*
Other than Pred and Antibiotics, what can be done for IBD to make him more comfortable? He had no problems before his surgery, could the surgery have led to him developing IBD, or is it more likely to be something that would have come up anyways and just wasn't yet apparent earlier?
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Post by katt on Sept 16, 2010 16:13:33 GMT -5
Also, since IBD can worsen the absorption in the small intestine, is there a vitamin supplement that I can give him to help with nutrition that is NOT loaded with sugar?
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Post by sherrylynne on Sept 16, 2010 18:54:14 GMT -5
I don't know if this is something you are interested in trying, but when Vincent starts getting really funky poos, I now give him about 1/2 plain, full fat yogurt a day, along with a tsp of pumpkin once a day. After a week or so of this, his stool really does clear up. I'm fairly sure his is a bacterial overgrowth, though, and not IBD. I'm thinking it certainly won't hurt, at least until his vet appt, and/or you are able to get hold of the probiotics.
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Post by katt on Sept 16, 2010 20:34:05 GMT -5
Thanks Sherry I will give that a try!
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Post by Heather on Sept 16, 2010 22:29:10 GMT -5
My little Ghenghis had IBD, diet had some to do with his attacks but various stress related incidents (new ferrets, change in habits, change in cages) were his bigger triggers. As much as he loved things that were different, they stressed him and he would have attacks. I found that when I added pumpkin or squash to his diet (he didn't seem to respond poorly to most protein sources) this also helped him with the loose stools and the occasional vomiting issues. Once diagnosed, keeping an eye on him and trying to keep his stress levels down was the only way to control him. We tried pred Jennifer and it got worse, even with the use of tummy meds like sulcrate and zantac. ciao
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Post by katt on Sept 16, 2010 22:37:47 GMT -5
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Post by Heather on Sept 16, 2010 22:53:27 GMT -5
Have you looked up ADV. It doesn't sound like it but it's such a difficult diagnosis. Someone had posted a pic or a video...video if I remember correctly of an ADV ferret. It looked to me that this was the later stages, it was heartbreaking. I still think it would more likely be IBD and ADV...just my personal take on it. ADV isn't that common, I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it's still not a common disease, just a scary one. Check out Danee DeVore's site, I used to have her email and site. She is one of the few people who publicly acknowledged and cared for her ADV infected business. She's just getting up and breeding again after one of her little ones picked up ADV at a show and brought it home to her breeding ferrets. She shut down her breeding operation and cared for her sick little furbabies until they all passed on. ciao
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Post by katt on Sept 17, 2010 1:29:54 GMT -5
Oh wow, how sad! And yes, I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread a question about ADV. That you brought it up without even having seen that just further confirms my suspicion of it being a possibility. I don't know anything about the ferts who were in Koda's FN cage other than that they were on a terrible diet and smelled to high heavens. I had to bring the cage into the house to clean it, but I cleaned it REALLY well - like again and again and again with bleach and baking soda and vinegar before Koda was put in it...
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Post by katt on Sept 17, 2010 1:35:59 GMT -5
Right now these are the options that I think I have it narrowed down to. If I am missing anything please let me know!
ADV (Praying to anything/anyone out there who will listen that it is NOT ADV!!!!) IBD - most likely option in my opinion Heliobacter or some other bacterial infection - should have shown in the fecal sample I would think...
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Post by katt on Sept 17, 2010 3:11:23 GMT -5
If *prays not* it DOES turn out to be ADV, will it ever be safe for me to have another ferret? I imagine that once Koda was gone (again, I hope to heavens this is not the case and that Koda is with me another 10 or more years!) I would have to toss/burn EVERYTHING. Toys, litter boxes, cages, etc and wash/sterilize everything in my house before ever getting another ferret... Worst case scenario... www.ferretadv.com/leese.htmlFor ADV vs IBD, if say Koda had IBD, but was tested for ADV, would the results potentially come back positive for ADV because his immune system is heightened due to the IBD and any related infection? "Ferrets most frequently present with ascending weakness(back to front), hind end weakness, lethargy, blood in stool, seizures, anemia, weight loss, enlargement of liver or spleen, etc" www.ferret-universe.com/health/adv.htmlKoda has had tarry stools, and the more I look at him the more I think he has definitely lost weight and it has just been gradual so we didn't notice. But definitely none of the other symptoms... Now, onto IBD because I really think that IBD may be the case...is it contagious? Like say it is bacterial overload or virus something along those lines (pathogenic) that is the cause of his episodes, could that be passed to another fert and make them not get IBD necessarily since obviously it would have to overrun their immune system and all of that stuff, but could it make the other fert more susceptible to it? What do you guys know about the treatment options as far as the one I listed, antibiotics, immunosuppressants, and then something was mentioned about some sort of anti-inflammatory that coats the stomach... Obviously I will ask the vet all of this next Wed, but in the meanwhile...thoughts?
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Post by katt on Sept 17, 2010 3:19:50 GMT -5
If I test for ADV is the ELISA test or the DNA in Stiu hybridization the more accurate way to go? haha Side note: I could probably tell you how to do both of those! gotta hate Molecular Biology. I suppose it was good for something though.
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Post by mjohn143 on Sept 17, 2010 7:59:40 GMT -5
Hey guys, I have been following this (but not adding my input bc I know nothing lol), but I have a question and maybe one of you could answer it... if not I can start a new thread, I just fig since it was the same issue here would be okay.
About a week ago I noticed a change in everyone's poopies. Badger not so much because she is still eating kibble (she is REALLY impossible to switch), but the 2 boys (who are pretty much totally switched) seem to have gooey poos lately. I mean sometimes they are really liqidly and loud, but other times they are like goo. I haven't taken them into the vet yet because they seem to be acting fine, and I am poor right now thanks to school. So I wasn't really sure what this could be a symptom of. I mean it is hard to tell because all poop is gross looking and idk what should look like what?
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Post by sherrylynne on Sept 17, 2010 9:03:04 GMT -5
FIrst, hurricanekatt, do the Elisa test. From what I understand, it's quite accurate. If that(gods forbid) were to be positve, THEN do the DNA, to be certain. I believe that one could rule out any false positives(if I remember correctly). But I'm more inclined to think IBD as well. The stress from the blockage and surgery could have triggered it easily. Mjohn? I'd try the yogurt and pumpkin for a week, and if that doesn't work, you need to start a new thread.
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Post by mjohn143 on Sept 17, 2010 9:05:50 GMT -5
Ok, thanks! How much yogurt how often? and canned pumpkin?
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