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Post by catznfertz on Apr 18, 2010 22:36:30 GMT -5
My husband forgot to feed the ferrets this morning, so Linus didn't get his meds until around 7pm. He took his medicine just fine with some baby food, so I turned them loose to play for a while. About an hour later I saw Linus in his little bed and went to check on him. He was unresponsive and drooling, so I put some honey on his gums. It took him a half hour or so to perk up, but I finally got him to eat a jar of his favorite turkey baby food. I think he will be ok, but I won't be making that mistake again.
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Post by spiritualtramp on Apr 22, 2010 8:42:03 GMT -5
Oh wow, that is scary. Is he alright now?
How are the others doing?
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Post by catznfertz on Apr 22, 2010 16:54:46 GMT -5
He seems to be doing better now. Not quite back up to where he was, but a definite improvement over how he was before he started medication. I don't know if he'll ever eat anything that's not a ground up mush, and he's certainly not a fan of the whole liver thing. I tried him on some turkey liver last weekend (he's a turkey man, after all!) but I ended up wearing most of it. He was even less impressed with that than he is with chicken liver, and even the cats wouldn't clean it up.
I've tried several more times with chunks of stuff mixed in with their ground, but still no takers. Patty has lost so much weight that I'm afraid she's going to float away. Pigpen is really the only one who has any concept of chewing food, and I'm certain that if that's all I offered the rest would quickly starve to death.
Any advice?
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Post by spiritualtramp on Apr 24, 2010 11:09:50 GMT -5
My advice is to keep pushing ahead. Maybe separate the more stubborn kids so as to go more slowly with them. No healthy ferret will refuse food for long just because it's a little chunkier than usual! Patty & Linus maybe can be separated at feeding times so that their switch can go even slower, but I am fairly certain the others are just playing you like a fiddle!
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Post by catznfertz on May 1, 2010 10:59:47 GMT -5
Patty is eating a bit more now, so I'm not quite as worried about her now, but she will still not touch anything chunkier than coarse ground. Neither will any of the others, for that matter, except for Piggy. I offered cornish wings cut up into little 1/2" pieces and left it in there for several hours. Pigpen ate about half of it by himself, but the rest just sat there until I gave them their mush. That was cleaned up with enthusiasm.
I think for now I'm just going to stick with the ground stuff. I'm already having to spend way too much time getting the little dudes fed, and the idea of having to prepare two separate meals for ferrets, plus meals for the cats, twice a day, is not appealing in the least. It's easy enough to sprinkle on some taurine, and I can mix their liver and organs right in. At least this way I know they are getting everything they need without the additional hassle.
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Post by catznfertz on May 7, 2010 21:56:18 GMT -5
I mixed up a bunch of ferret chow last week, about half with the 3/8" plate and half with the 5/8". Chunkier than the last batch, but apparently still acceptable to their highnesses. They're actually having to chew it a bit, and I even sometimes hear a little sliver of bone crunch!
I made turkey with bone and turkey liver, pork with pork kidney and some chicken liver, chicken with bone chicken liver and pork kidney, duck with bone and duck liver, and rabbit with bone and chicken liver. It was a little iffy at first with Patty and Linus, but they quickly decided it was pretty good stuff. I am still having to hand feed Linus sometimes if he doesn't eat much on his own, but I haven't had to puree anything in a while. He still gets maybe a quarter of a jar of his turkey baby food per day with his medicine, but otherwise what they're getting has all the meat, bones, and organs they need. I thought about mixing a bit of freeze-dried liver with the baby food just to balance it out, but all I could find at Petsmart was beef liver, and Linus was not a fan. I might try it again with freeze-dried chicken liver, but I'm not as concerned with it at this point. I don't think I quite got to 5% kidney with this batch, since I just didn't have that much, but it is relatively heavy on the liver (I lucked out and got 3 duck livers in 2 birds!). Next time I'll get some more kidney in there, and maybe some other stuff too.
You and your crew doing OK? Haven't heard much from you lately...
:-)
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Post by spiritualtramp on May 9, 2010 12:05:33 GMT -5
Wow that is great progress! I knew they'd start to come around, albeit slowly. You must be happy to hear the little bone crunches every so often - it is a satisfying sound.
I'm sorry for my absence, I've been busy. Things with work escalated to the point of me quitting, so I've been running around for the past week frantically searching for a new job and also moving, and helping a friend who is in NYC move back to NH. So, it's been a busy few weeks. Hopefully things will settle down soon enough and I can be around more often. Apologies!
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Post by catznfertz on May 12, 2010 19:58:37 GMT -5
Yep, it's definitely slow going... But at this point at least we're getting a balanced diet with all the meat, bones and organs they need. I made up probably a month's supply of ferret chow, so next month I'll use less of the finer grind and more of more of the chunkier grind. I think we've hit a bit of a rhythm over the past week or so. I've hit upon exactly the right amount to package for each meal. Between 5 ferrets, about 6 1/2 oz per meal, gets everyone a good feed at meal time, and just enough left over to snack on between meals, but not enough to ruin their next meal. Kitties are not too happy with this development, since they were the beneficiaries of the ferrets' leftovers. Now they get to pick off just the few little dried up chunks that are left stuck to the plate.
I even wrote up a weekly menu so hubby will know what to thaw out for them in the morning before I get up:
Sunday am: chicken pm:turkey Monday am: duck pm: pork Tuesday: am: chicken pm: rabbit Wednesday am: turkey pm: duck Thursday am: pork pm: rabbit Friday am:chicken pm: turkey Saturday am: duck pm: pork
All the flavors except pork are ground bones and all, except for turkey which only has a little bone (don't want to burn up my grinder!). Some of the mixes are heavier on liver than others, since I had access to turkey and duck liver as well as chicken, and not as much kidney and other stuff as I would like, but I think it's a darn good start.
I think I'm just going to stick with this, and just up the chunkiness factor once a month or so as I mix up new batches of chow. It might take a year or more to get them all eating big chunks of real food, but I'm ok with that.
Linus seems to be doing pretty well. I still have to hold him while he eats about half the time, but he will eat out of a little bowl now instead of wanting to only eat off a spoon. He is losing a bunch of hair though, across his shoulders and down his back. I called his vet about getting him a melatonin implant, and she wants to try him on an oral melatonin solution first and see how he does.
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Post by spiritualtramp on May 12, 2010 21:40:01 GMT -5
Sounds good! You've found a plan that works and I think if you continue to change the size slowly, you'll get them eating more chunks too. This definitely is good news to hear, and the rhythm is so important to get into and feel confident about. I am pleased that you've found the right balance! How do you feel about graduating? I know you are at a different place than maybe the goal was originally, but you have a great understanding now and have found a solid meal plan that works. Let me know and we can talk more about this process. As for Linus, I am sorry to hear he may be adrenal too. It's a tough illness but at least it won't affect his appetite even more than the insulinoma does - oftentimes it makes them hungrier too. I've used both oral and implant melatonin on my Pilot, and prefer the implant. But since the oral is so cheap, it's definitely worth a try. It may work better for Linus at this stage, too. I'd suggest the pill form rather than a liquid, as most liquids are compounded with alcohol or sugars and flavorings, both of which can be issues for poor Linus. I used pills and crushed them up to mix into soup. It was easy to do and the pills are so cheap and easy to find. Good luck with the melatonin and let me know how he does.
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Post by catznfertz on May 15, 2010 23:53:49 GMT -5
Well, I think I'm in a pretty good place now, and I don't foresee any radical changes in the near future. I figure I'll go as slow as these little critters need to go, since I know they're getting the variety and nutrition they need. I think the only other tweak I can think of is to add some heart to my chicken mix, but I'm supplementing with taurine anyway since I grind. I suspect I will be a pretty boring case, or at least I hope so.
The vet gave me a liquid of melatonin mixed with water, karo syrup and banana flavor. Linus accepted it quite readily mixed on with his turkey baby food (imagine that!) but I am going to try him on a mix that I made of just crunched up tablets and water. I actually had some on hand that I use myself when I can't sleep, so I tasted a tablet just to see. I haven't tried him on my homemade version yet, but I can't imagine he would object to the taste. That was a major concern for me with oral vs. implant, since I'm still sporting scars from the problems I had getting his pred into him. I made up the solution with 20 pills in 15 ml water, so .25 ml is 1g melatonin. That makes it easier to measure, seems like, than trying to get 1/3 of those little pills. The stuff the vet made is only a .5 mg dose, but everything I've read says 1g. I figure its a safe enough med and the poor guy REALLY needs some hair! Please let me know if you think this is too much; it will be easy enough to dilute it back down. Regardless, I'd rather use my stuff if I can get away with it, instead of paying $18 for a month's supply of sugar water and artificial flavoring. I can justify that with the pred, but this stuff actually tastes kinda sweet on its own. Not to mention its so cheap it's practically free.
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Post by catznfertz on May 18, 2010 22:37:19 GMT -5
After doing some more research, I found a vet in my area who does the deslorelin implants. It is supposed to last for around a year, as opposed to replacing every four months. I think I will try to use the melatonin as well, but I am already having a hard time giving it at the right time. Is oral melatonin effective at all if its not given until late? Or am I just wasting my time? I had grand plans this weekend to start coming home for a late lunch to dose Linus, but first thing monday one of my coworkers called in, so I was not able to take a lunch at all. By the time I got home it was after 6:30. If a dose this late is helpful, I'll continue, otherwise I'll have to rely on the deslorelin implant, or consider a melatonin implant as well if he needs it. His appointment for the implant is tomorrow evening.
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Post by spiritualtramp on May 21, 2010 21:38:40 GMT -5
I would go for the deslorelin, it is supposed to be great. Oral melatonin when given that late is a moot point - to be effective it has to be around 7 hours after sunrise. When Pilot was getting oral, I had to come home from work at 2 every afternoon to dose her. I just ground a 1mg pill (same stuff you buy for yourself) and mixed it into a small portion of soup. It helped her after about a month or so, but I still found much better results with the implant. If you go with the deslorelin implant, I doubt he'll also need a melatonin implant as desi is supposed to really work well.
Did he get the desi? How is he doing?
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Post by catznfertz on May 21, 2010 23:58:51 GMT -5
Yep, he got it wednesday night. He did really well for it too. I forgot to bring some 'tone to keep him occupied, so the vet gave me a syringe with some nutrical. He was so excited to get even the teensiest taste of something with sugar in it he didn't even flinch. He didn't even get that kinda stuff before he went inso, so it was an EXTRA special treat.
I plan on getting some batteries for my camera this weekend so I can post some before and after pix of the poor beastie. I'm really excited to see how well the deslorelin really works.
I'm starting to get a bit low on my chicken mix, so probably next weekend I will plan on whipping up another batch of grub. Hopefully they will forgive me if I don't get the recipe just exactly right!
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Post by spiritualtramp on May 24, 2010 14:55:13 GMT -5
Oh, great, I'm glad he did so well and even got a special treat I'm excited to see how the desi works too. I don't have access to it but am thinking about seeing Dr Wagner in Pittsburgh when I head down & out for Buckeye (if I can make it, that is...) I hope that the kids adjust to the new batch easily. I know they seem to be pretty picky but hopefully they're getting over that. Let me know how they do!
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Post by catznfertz on May 26, 2010 22:16:01 GMT -5
Just touching base. Everything is just the same. Planning on doing up a batch of chow this weekend. Its easier to do all the flavors at once, so I only clean up once instead of five times.
Haven't seen any change in Linus yet, but its way too soon.
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