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Post by spiritualtramp on Mar 15, 2010 12:28:30 GMT -5
The new grinder plate will definitely make things easier for you in this. What about trying to offer them chicken wings for a few meals, to get them to start working on bones? It's easy enough to snap them into segments and the bones are small enough especially on the tips that they get it pretty quickly.
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Post by catznfertz on Mar 15, 2010 22:57:10 GMT -5
This evening I tossed in a couple inches of chicken neck and a wingtip along with their duck grind. I saw Schroeder work on it a bit, but he didn't get very far before giving up. Piggy did a pretty good job getting all the meat off the neck, but didn't eat any of the bone that I could tell. I tossed in a turkey thigh bone with a couple scraps of meat left on, just for fun, and Piggy nibbled on that a bit too.
Everyone seems to be doing ok on 100% duck for 3-4 meals now, though I did find what I am pretty sure was vomit in the cage tonight. It was pretty nasty, very light colored and kind of seedy from all the fat. I know fat is a good thing in a ferret's diet, but do you feed duck with ALL the skin and fat? I just ground up the whole bird, minus one drumstick and the giblets that it was missing. I' pretty sure there's more skin and fat on those suckers than meat and bone combined. Vomit or no, everyone seems to be feeling fine and eating well.
I don't usually buy chicken wings, but CGH is a staple in my house. Tomorrow for dinner, I'll cut up some breast and ribs and see what they do with that. My biggest fear is that Linus won't eat and could get into trouble with his inso. The only strategy I can figure is to offer the bone in stuff first for a couple hours, then give them their ground food. Any thoughts?
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Post by spiritualtramp on Mar 17, 2010 11:28:54 GMT -5
With wings, I started out by breaking them into segments and then breaking the segments down into smaller pieces, that way they could work on the bone and taste the marrow. If you have a meat hammer, you can smash the bones up, too. Try getting them into small enough pieces that they don't seem deterred in trying to munch on them. Oftentimes the crunchiness of them is enough to get them motivated!
The seedy liquid was probably poop and not vomit. The fat wouldn't have been digested enough to become seedy if it had been vomited up --- but seedy poops are commonplace with high-fat meals. It's normal, and not too much to worry about. Their bodies are still adjusting, and they simply can't burn or absorb ALL the fat they take in.
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Post by catznfertz on Mar 19, 2010 22:28:21 GMT -5
We're still doing well with the ground chicken, turkey, pork and duck, but we seem to have had a bit of a backslide on the organ thing. I made up a new batch of chicken liver and pork kidney, spleen and brain, and a little ground pork meat, and offered this as a full meal for the first time. My cats think this stuff is ambrosia, but the ferrets won't take more than a little lick. The several times I've offered them dribs and drabs of my organ mix, they seemed pretty enthusiastic about it, but I guess that was mostly liver since the kidney and stuff was in chunks, instead of all being ground together. They still won't eat anything in chunks. Plus the previous mix didn't have any brain in it, which maybe they don't like.
I'm trying to decide if I need to just add more and more of the organ mix to their ground meats like I've been doing to introduce the other meats (as a full meal), or just start back with chicken liver only a few times a week as a "snack" and slowly introduce the "other organ meats." Seems like The first option would result in an awful lot of organ meat in a short period of time...
I'm thinking I will do some work on the organ thing (which I thought I already had under control) before I start really working on bones for real. Besides I have quite a bit of stuff already ground up, that I'd like to use. I ended up getting two new grinder plates, a 1/2" and a 3/4", so I can take a couple of steps in grinding coarser and coarser. This includes the bones, which they'll get to crunch a bit too.
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Post by catznfertz on Mar 24, 2010 18:41:21 GMT -5
I don't think I'm going to be able to get away with feeding organs as a full meal only once a week. I've tried a few more times to get them interested in my organ mix, and that's a no go except for Pigpen who will eat anything, and even he will only eat a little. I went back to plain chicken liver, and everyone will slurp up a little off a spoon but Linus, who is just not impressed at all. I was able to get some liver down him by scruffing and kinda pouring it down his throat with a spoon. That is how Franklin has learned how to like liver and fish oil, but Linus (at least Im guessing it was him) promptly threw it back up.
I have also tried numerous times to include some little chunks with their ground food. They just get licked clean and left behind. I haven't had a chance to try my new grinder plates, but if they won't all eat even teeny chunks, I may be stuck with ground food. I have to be very careful, or Linus will refuse to eat. He does great with the basic ground stuff, but any time I try to change things up with organs or bones he won't touch it. I've even tried using his favorite baby food as a bribe, and he just licks off what he can, or refuses the whole thing. I'm worried that he's starting to lose weight again.
Honestly, I'm considering just sticking with ground for the time being. I can mix their organs right in, they get plenty of bone, supplement with taurine, and call it good. It's a far sight better than kibble even if it is all mooshed up.
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Post by spiritualtramp on Mar 25, 2010 0:22:32 GMT -5
You can of course stick with the ground if that makes more sense, but this early in the game, I wouldn't rule out raw meaty bones just yet. It's another step in the introduction process and sometimes can be a bigger hurdle than meat itself, but I do think that your kids can get there if you are patient. Linus, though, will have to be a special case since he is so fickle and can't afford to go hungry.
Stepping back to work on one hurdle at a time is probably wise, so let's focus on organs like you said. I know you made up a new organ blend to add into their meals, and they aren't as keen on it as the liver blend before. New flavors (and brain I imagine is a strong one) is throwing them off, but try spoon-feeding, or mixing smaller ratios of the organ blend into their grind. Sometimes it just takes a while to get them used to the new scents and tastes.
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Post by catznfertz on Mar 25, 2010 21:52:28 GMT -5
I got a new blender this afternoon to replace the one I killed pureeing their last batch of partly cooked soup. My thought is they will probably go for liver a lot better as a smooth liquid instead of a chunky slimy one. Thats how the liver was in the previous batch with the chunks of other organ they wouldn't touch. Probably this weekend I'll puree up just a couple ounces of chicken liver and see how that goes. Hopefully I can get them worked up to a full organ meal, otherwise it'll be a spoonful or so several times a week. That is a bit more labor intensive than I really prefer. And if that doesn't work, I really will have to stick with ground and go back to mixing it in. I think all of them will like my blender idea though, and I can puree in a bit of "other" later on.
I figure I can also cook and puree my own baby food, and save that buck a jar for beechnut. It's only a jar a week, but I can get a whole pound of chicken (or more!) for the price of one jar!
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Post by catznfertz on Mar 29, 2010 14:34:36 GMT -5
The pureed liver was much more acceptable to everyone in the clan, but Pigpen and Schroeder were the only two that would eat any off the plate. Franklin and Patty were pretty enthusiastic about licking it off the spoon, but Linus is still being a little picky-butt. I did manage to get some into him that stayed down, but it was a bit of a struggle. Later on, though, he got me back when I was giving him his meds and all that liver came out the other end all down the front of my shirt. I tell you, THAT was less than pleasant!! I got a couple of rabbits this afternoon that I will run thru the grinder and see how they like that. I'm kinda eager to try out those big grinder plates and see if those freaky weasels will eat anything even closely resembling a chunk. I'll probably grind most of the rabbit finer than that till they get up to speed with it. I'm a little concerned about Patty these days. I really haven't seen her eat anything lately except for what I spoon feed her, and she has lost some weight. She doesn't look too terribly skinny to me, and has been happy and active and wrestling with her big baby brother, pooping just fine, etc. I'm sure she has been eating some while I'm not looking, but I can't prove it. So far, I'm just going to chalk that up to a seasonal weight loss, but I still want to keep an eye on her just in case.
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Post by catznfertz on Mar 29, 2010 23:50:29 GMT -5
Tonight I couldn't get Linus interested in dinner. He seemed happy to be fed, and came downstairs on his own, but only took a few licks and decided the chicken was too chunky. It's the same coarse grind they've had before, but the last time they had chicken my husband gave them a package I had leftover of their old pureed and cooked soup. Linus seemed interested in the raw ground, but every time he came across a chunk bigger than he wanted (every other lick) he had to run off somewhere to spit it out. I offered him some cooked and pureed chicken breast, but he would only take a few licks of that too. Finally I broke out the turkey baby food, and he ate most of a jar of that. I'm beginning to think I will just have to feed Linus whatever he will eat, and move the rest of them up to bigger chunks and bone. Today was the first day in several that Linus has gone to thw dinner plate on his own, but to see him not eat anything was really discouraging.
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Post by catznfertz on Mar 31, 2010 16:42:48 GMT -5
I can tell Linus hasnt been feeling very good lately, so for the past couple of meals I've just been throwing a couple spoonfuls of what everyone else is getting into my little blender and pureeing it with some water to spoon feed. I don't figure his dental health is among his top priorities right now.
Not really what I had in mind, but the little dude gotta eat. Plus I can be more aggressive about getting the others onto real food.
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Post by spiritualtramp on Apr 1, 2010 17:19:57 GMT -5
I'm sorry to hear about Linus. I was hoping he was getting more adventurous, but you're right, if he isn't eating enough on his own you will need to sacrifice and feed him things he will eat. How is he today?
Keep in mind that it is spring shed season and most ferrets trim down and lose body mass at this time of year. So Patty's weight loss could still be within the norm. Also, they eat far less during the warm months than they do during the cold ones, so it can be a little shocking to see. I still get tripped up every spring! If she is eating, and her poops and behaviors seem normal, I wouldn't panic just yet.
Did you grind up the rabbit??? I wish I could find a local source for rabbits, that is so great!
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Post by catznfertz on Apr 1, 2010 21:27:01 GMT -5
I think Patty is doing fine. I think a lot of it is just me paying a lot more attention to what and how much they eat, as opposed to topping off a bowl of kibble every other day. She was bouncing around all over the place this evening, which I'm sure she wouldn't do if she was starving.
Linus seemed to be feeling pretty good too, playing around with Franklin and doing the happy dance. He licked some of the grease from their plate of coarse ground duck, but slurped down a heaping helping of the same stuff run thru the blender.
Franklin is getting bigger every day. He definitely likes Mama's cookin'! Compared to little Patty, he's an absolute monster! I think he may even be considered fat, since he has such a comparatively thick cushion over his ribs. But he feels totally solid and muscular, with very little "jiggle" in his belly. How long do ferrets keep growing?
There are a couple of places I've found that carry rabbit. The Buy for Less gets some on a pretty regular basis, but a local Mexican grocery has it for just $3.49/lb. Still way pricey for pet food, but I don't pay over $1/lb for most of what I buy.
I think those new grinder plates will work awesome. I ground up the rabbit mostly medium fine, some chunks and some bigger chunks. I haven't really started introducing it yet since Linus was in trouble, but since I'm just gonna puree and hand feed him I will start the process this weekend.
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Post by catznfertz on Apr 7, 2010 22:36:15 GMT -5
Linus seems to be doing better this week. I am still supplementing with the spoon but he's also eating some on his own. He was playing good this evening and even offered to play chase with Darwin. Darwin not-so-politely declined.
Apparently rabbit is good stuff for ferrets. It only took 3-4 meals before they were eating straight rabbit, and everyone but Patty seems to love it. Linus ate so much of it his little belly looked like he swallowed a baseball! Patty eats rabbit ok, but she wants to eat it out of a spoon. I think she just needs a few more tries to get used to eating it. Personally, I can't really blame her. I tried cooking a couple rabbit thighs for myself (after all, why should the critters get expensive meat I have never even tasted??) but it was pretty nasty. So tough I couldnt even eat it! I ended up feeding it to the cats anyway..
Franklin has decided his new favorite place to sleep is in the litterbox. My guess is he's just hot with all that thick fur and extra insulation. I will probably take the cover off one of their shelves to see if he just prefers a cooler place to sleep.
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Post by spiritualtramp on Apr 8, 2010 21:09:07 GMT -5
Oh Franklin Morgan loves to sleep in the litterbox, too - he does this even in the winter when it's obviously not a matter of temperature. I think some ferrets are just a little weird in the head. If it's getting warm in the room, though, it might drive them to seek cooler surfaces. How warm is it getting? It sounds like they are all doing really great, and I'm happy Linus is doing so well. You're right about Patty, my guess is she is doing just great and the shock of how little they actually eat is all it is.
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Post by catznfertz on Apr 15, 2010 21:57:30 GMT -5
My clan is doing about the same. Linus seems to be doing well, and is eating on his own again. However Patty has not been seen eating on her own in more than a week. She seems to be feeling just fine, but when mealtime comes she just sniffs the plate and walks off. For the most part, she will eat from a spoon, but if the grind is too coarse for her liking, she will give it a lick or two and wiggle to get down. Last night I fed duck, which is pretty chunky (by their standards, anyway) and she just pushed it off the spoon and wanted down. Then I ran it thru the blender and she ate two heaping spoonful!
I'm beginning to think that fine ground is the way to go with these guys. At first Patty was one of my best eaters, but about the time I started grinding coarser she started losing weight. She went from 1lb 9oz to 1lb 2oz a week ago. I haven't weighed her since, but I think she might have lost some more.
Not to mention, with preparing meals, supervising meals, spoon feeding whoever is not eating and giving Linus his meds, I'm spending more than an hour a day just feeding ferrets. That doesn't count the time waiting for meals to thaw, or feeding my six cats either. I have been working late this week, so it seems like all I do is work and feed animals.
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