Zupreem or EVO better Pros and Cons

[weloveourweasels]

I know that neither are honestly good choices and raw/whole prey is they way to go but I was having this discussion over at natural ferrets group and would like to bring it over here since I know some people here feed EVO and other kibbles.

So here are the EVO ingredients for reference in discussion

Turkey, Chicken Meal, Chicken, Herring Meal, Potatoes, Chicken Fat, Egg, Turkey Meal, Natural Flavors, Apples, Carrots, Alfalfa Sprouts, Cranberries, Tomatoes, Cottage Cheese, Root Extract, Dried Chicory Root Extract, DL-Methionine, Lecithin, Rosemary Extract, Vitamins/Minerals


And here are the Zupreem ingredients

Ingredients: Chicken Meal, Chicken Fat, Ground Wheat, Wheat Flour, Chicken, Egg Product, Beet Pulp, Natural Chicken Flavor, Brewers Yeast, Flax Seed, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Iodized Salt, Taurine, DL-Methionine, Natural Mixed Tocopherols, Rosemary Extract, Citric Acid, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Copper Chloride, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Thiamine, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin, Folic Acid, Biotin, Vitamin B12 Supplement.

So the discussion on the natural ferret site is that the fruits and vegetables in EVO feed the gut bacteria and provide fiber. Good points. If that is indeed correct which sounds correct to me then my only other complaint would be the herring meal which is controversial in ferret foods and causes a bad odor for some. Some it does not. I would be worried about the odor. Also it would not be included in the polecats diet in the wild EXCEPT the French polecat would have lizards and frogs and such. But I would also be worried that the excess sugars in the fruits and vegetables could contribute to insulinoma.

Now for the Zupreem is has ground wheat and wheat flour. It also has beat pulp which I contacted the company to ask if the sugar was removed and they said it was not but the beet pulp only acts as a binder which confused me because i thought that was the purpose of the ground wheat and wheat flour. So could I believe the ground wheat, wheat flout and beet pulp would also feed the gut bacteria and act as a fiber just as the fruits and vegetables would in the EVO. So what are you thoughts on the topic?

[mustelidmusk]

I prefer the EVO for the following reasons....

If you look at the analysis, EvO is hgher protein, higher fat and lower carbs than Zupreem (All in favor of EVO

The first ingredient
EVO - Turkey (real urkey - not turkey meal which is an ultra -processed concoction of who knows what!
Zupreem - Cicken MEAL (lower quality ingedient thn Turkey)

Second Ingredient:
EVO - Chicken Meal (variety )
Zupreem - Chicken fat (no variety)

Third Ingredient:
EVO - Chicken
Zupreem - ground wheat

Fourth ingredient:
EVO - Herrig meal (variety)
Zupeem - wheat flour

Fiifth ingredient:
EVO - potatoes
Zupeem - chicken (better than chicken MEAL)

6th, 7th, 8th ingreients
EVO- Cicken fat, egg, turkey meal
Zuprem - egg product (procesed), Beet pulp( has sugar), Natural chicken flavor ot sure what that means)

The first 5 ingredients are most inportant since these ingredients arepresent in the highest quantities. The first indredient is rely impotant because it's the lagest amout of any other ingregdient i the food. The second listes ingredient is the second largest quantity in the food, and so on. 2 of the first 5 ingredients in Zupreem are staches - EVO has only 1 starch in the first 5. Starches contan sugar. I uspect that the small amount of sugrsfromfruit s insignificat ompard to the wheat prodcts in Zupreem and een te otatoes in EVO

Polecats do consume berries in the wild (seasonally), Feral ferret (just like our pets) populations in New Zealand eat eels seasonally. The eels are fish - like salmon, the eels swim up the rivers to spawn each year. The babies hatch in the streams and eventually return to the sea - like salmon.

My ferrets have eaten EVO, and their poops did not stink. They eat freeze-dried fish now , and their poops don't stink. So I don't think the fish is an issue (more variety)


EVO.......
Crude Analysis -

Crude Protein (min) 50% Zupreem = 40%
Crude Fat (min) 21% Zupreem = 20%
Crude Fiber (max) 1.5% Zupreem = 2%
Moisture (max) 10% Zupreem = 10%
Linoleic Acid (Omega-6 Fatty Acid) (min) 4%
Carbohydrates NFE (max) 8%
Vitamin E (min) 300 IU/kg
Vitamin C (min) 500 mg/kg
Omega-3 Fatty Acids (min) 0.4%
Docosahexaenoic Acid (min) 0.1%
Total Microorganisms (min) 90,000,000CFU/lb
.

ZUPREEM......
Guaranteed Analysis: Protein (min) 40%, Fat (min) 20%, Fiber (max) 2%, Moisture (max) 10%

-jennier

[josiesmom]

Based on the ingredient list Evo is the better product. As for the sugar beet pulp being used as a "binder" as offered by the mfr. it may be, but it is also used as a "filler".

Keep in mind that these products are made via market availability and cost NOT according to specific recipe.

Which means that as long as their ending analysis falls within their "guaranteed minimum analysis listed the product's ingredients can vary widely in amount.

If wheat is cheaper than ground corn more wheat will be used for that batch. If sugar beet pulp is cheaper that week, more beet pulp will be used in the mix. This is why one bag of the same kibble can and often does vary significantly from another bag of the same product. This variance while maybe falling within the guaranteed analysis parameters does not mean each bag offers the same amount of bioavailable nutrients to your ferret.

Products manufactured per recipe quantity are few and far between and often cost prohibitive to produce. When researching kibbles or talking to manufacturers this is another good question to ask. Is their product manufactured according to market values or according to a specific recipe?

While whole prey can vary in health from producer to producer it won't vary in bioavailabity of nutrients. A mouse from rodentpro is just as digestible as a mouse from THe big Cheese or that pet store mouse.

Kibble is good for transitioning to a natural diet and I recommend transitioning from a poor quality kibble to a higher quality kibble if the ferrant is choosing the slow switch method or has a ferret with insulinoma. In this case offering Evo would be offering a better quality kibble than Zupreem. But keep in mind the sugar content of the beet pulp will impart a sweeter taste to the Zupreem, so that kibble may be better received by the ferret!

Cheers,
Kim

[ferretpalooza]

I just dropped Zupreem from my diet and switched to Evo for this reason. I was told the higher protein, the mushier the poos. Since my kids have stomach problems and a lot of seedy poo, I added Ultimate 8 in 1 and Natural gold in lesser amount, but they both arent much better than Zupreem. Hoping natural will up the digestion and since I already have mushy, weird poos, I guess I dont have much to lose.

[pear2apple]

I don't know much about all those numbers and such, but I do know that ground wheat and wheat flour are no good for my ferret. I will not be feeding that to either of them. Its already been proven those are not good ingredients. I am not all that worried about the veggies/fruits in Evo. I feed Evo Red Meat bites, I am also looking for other kibbles, but anything with wheat in it is not an option for me.