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Post by comadrejaloquita14 on Jan 10, 2011 15:32:50 GMT -5
Maybe not the right place for this (Sorry if it isn't) and soorrrrryyyyy its so long...
Right now I work a county away from home (hopefully by this time next year I will be at home full time) I leave around 7:40a, I am at work from 8:30a-5p and some days I don't get home till 7p! It all depends on how many patients we have + how bad traffic is. I want to put my ferts on a raw diet but I worry about a few things. Number one being the food going bad. I want them to have access to their food at all times, however, if they're on raw obv that will become an issue due to my hours right?
Second, my ferrets are both adopted. Kahlua, my sprite, is blinder than ur average ferret due to a malnurited life until I saved her when she was 2.5 y/o. She had a bald tail, she was super skinny and her fur was in REALLY poor condition. i got her healthy and up to speed but the gib, Mojito, that we ended up adopting later was a marshal's ferret to the T. He had marshal's food, treats and even duck soup. I had been feeding Kahlua nutriphase but couldn't get Mojito to change. So I blindly trusted my mom that MF wasnt bad, then I read some article that taught me otherwise (can't even remember what it was anymore) it started a snowball of research and learning. Little by little I learned more and more and I don't want to take up too much time by going into detail but I will say: Although we are still learning everyday and are in the process of changing food (I had changed from 100% MF to MF + 8 in 1 then I couldnt get the 8 in 1 but got Zupreem instead (somehow I thought it wasn't grain free, even though I ment to buy grain free, but then when I looked again at the bag it actually IS grain free- thank god! lol) but upon further learning, found out that EVO is better then, before I got it, I found out EVO cat poultry is even better since its cheaper- has LESS carbs and MORE taurine. Now they are on just a little MF, Zupreem GF and EVO (we just started the EVO not long ago and are still working on getting the MF out completely, then I will remove Zupreem GF as well). Whenever I am home I give them various raw treats/soupies/add gravy & meat to kibble from BG 95% meat cans (am going to be using Evangers 100% meat cans and they have game flavors too!) But then I decided if Im doing all this research into their food I'm sure Tequila's food needs an up grade--- and then I came across ZiwiPeak.. During all this research I have always heard/read that Raw/Prey are the best which is why I try to give raw treats as often as possible (which isnt often enough IMHO). I wishhhhh I was home enough to be able to feed raw 100% of the time but I cant. Ziwipeak sounds like a great alternitive but theres no taurine actually *listed* (weather or not the meats they use are meats, like hearts, that include taurine isn't specified so I don't know) annd thats a big concern for me + the EVO kibble that I am trying to make their main diet has 50% protein, ziwi is significantly lower BUT ziwi has more fat. Ugh. So although I'm sure it will make it into their diet at some point, I don't know that its healthy to give them that 100% of the time. Also, EVO that i use has 7% carbs which is something I recently learned I want to be cutting out. (somewhere between buying adding zupreem and adding evo) I chose the cat because it has less carbs than the ferret evo. Ziwi, however, has 0% carbs. So thats another pro to ZiwiPeak.
So those are my main concerns, also this. Although I don't know Sailor Jerry's (the stray cat that I care for) past, I know he has no teeth (ok.. not NO teeth, no front teeth. He has fangs and molars). When I was discussing the subject with a woman who takes care of tons of ferals/strays she said "a lot of times cats who are forced to hunt and fend for themselves don't get enough nutrients and therefor loose their teeth" UM.. scary?! If a cat doesn't get enough nutrients through raw diet, how do I know my fuzzbutts do?! Buut then again Bob Church (who I'm sure knows more than that lady) says that raw/prey diets are better for teeth. He might have just said prey, i may be remembering incorrectly. I need to re-read the article.
See i think i am learning too much too fast because I am getting confused and that makes me forget stuff- sorry. So back to my main point/concern: Can I feed a raw diet if I am away from the house for so long everyday?
(ps. incase ur worried about play time, the kids come out when I get home till I go to bed, which can sometimes be as late as 1230a-130a because I have to pick up my fiancee at 10-11p and make him dinner and stuff + he likes to have play time with them too)
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Post by comadrejaloquita14 on Jan 10, 2011 15:36:46 GMT -5
btw, incase you were wondering because I forgot to make mention- Tequila= my 4 y.o. chihuahua (he will be 5 in feb)
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Post by rarnold18 on Jan 10, 2011 16:29:13 GMT -5
Yes you can feed raw if your away from the house that long every day... I think you can leave ground raw as long as 12-24 hours and bone in or whole peices of meat 24 hours or longer, not that they actually last that long around here! Ground meat tends to go even faster because my crew are lazy and they don't have to do much to eat it. I fill up there bowls with what ever I'm feeding when I feed all of the animals dinner, in the am if there is still food I leave it if not I give them some more that way I know they have access to food at all times. I have 10 ferrets now so if I'm feeding chicken wings I'll put in 6 or more wings (depending on size) if come the am there is nothing left I'll add more... my newest babe, who still doesn't have a name came home from animal control last Thursday so she's not eating bone in food obviously but she is eating ground whole chicken (whole=meat, bones, skin, fat, heart, liver, gizzard all ground together) which is awesome because I have no background about here but due to her condition I would much rather get her eating the "good" stuff sooner rather than later (condition-fur loss, bones protruding, bad teeth, dry brittle fur, rash from fleas (yuck)) I offered her ground chicken and she ate it so we're not turning back! But yeah, we feed raw and there is always meat in their cage....if the meat starts to get on the stinky or green side I feed it to the dogs and refresh what they have in there... I know mean fur mom feeding the dogs ripe meat...but I have seen some of the stuff they have "dug up" and meat that's a bit stinky or green aint nothing!!! ( I HATE to waste food so very little gets throw away!) As for taurine, it is in all muscle meats, the darker the muscle meat the more taurine it has, heart, which is also a muscle is high in taurine too and you can usually find chicken heart at your local grocery store and can use that for treat if you like, becase they are pretty small. I buy my chicken hearts at Walmart superstore, it comes in a package mixed with gizzards. (they are in perdue packaging) As for Tequila, he can eat raw too! When I discovered BARF/Raw feeding model I only had dogs, 3 pits and 1 Chihuahua, Lola, who was 12-14 years old at the time and I started her out on ground whole meats and then upped her to chicken necks, wings, backs, and other smaller bone in meats...it took a month or so for her to devlop a good amount of jaw strenght to be able to eat the bigger bones but she did! My sweet Lola was only about 4 lbs so she was a tiny dainty thing, but could crunch through bones just like the boys could! I miss my Lola, she passed last January from complications of a stroke at the ripe old age of about 18 years old ...one day I'll be owned by another Chi, but I'm just not ready for it....I still miss her too much.
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Post by comadrejaloquita14 on Jan 10, 2011 16:51:24 GMT -5
Yes you can feed raw if your away from the house that long every day... I think you can leave ground raw as long as 12-24 hours and bone in or whole peices of meat 24 hours or longer, not that they actually last that long around here! Ground meat tends to go even faster because my crew are lazy and they don't have to do much to eat it. I fill up there bowls with what ever I'm feeding when I feed all of the animals dinner, in the am if there is still food I leave it if not I give them some more that way I know they have access to food at all times. I have 10 ferrets now so if I'm feeding chicken wings I'll put in 6 or more wings (depending on size) if come the am there is nothing left I'll add more... my newest babe, who still doesn't have a name came home from animal control last Thursday so she's not eating bone in food obviously but she is eating ground whole chicken (whole=meat, bones, skin, fat, heart, liver, gizzard all ground together) which is awesome because I have no background about here but due to her condition I would much rather get her eating the "good" stuff sooner rather than later (condition-fur loss, bones protruding, bad teeth, dry brittle fur, rash from fleas (yuck)) I offered her ground chicken and she ate it so we're not turning back! But yeah, we feed raw and there is always meat in their cage....if the meat starts to get on the stinky or green side I feed it to the dogs and refresh what they have in there... I know mean fur mom feeding the dogs ripe meat...but I have seen some of the stuff they have "dug up" and meat that's a bit stinky or green aint nothing!!! ( I HATE to waste food so very little gets throw away!) As for taurine, it is in all muscle meats, the darker the muscle meat the more taurine it has, heart, which is also a muscle is high in taurine too and you can usually find chicken heart at your local grocery store and can use that for treat if you like, becase they are pretty small. I buy my chicken hearts at Walmart superstore, it comes in a package mixed with gizzards. (they are in perdue packaging) As for Tequila, he can eat raw too! When I discovered BARF/Raw feeding model I only had dogs, 3 pits and 1 Chihuahua, Lola, who was 12-14 years old at the time and I started her out on ground whole meats and then upped her to chicken necks, wings, backs, and other smaller bone in meats...it took a month or so for her to devlop a good amount of jaw strenght to be able to eat the bigger bones but she did! My sweet Lola was only about 4 lbs so she was a tiny dainty thing, but could crunch through bones just like the boys could! I miss my Lola, she passed last January from complications of a stroke at the ripe old age of about 18 years old ...one day I'll be owned by another Chi, but I'm just not ready for it....I still miss her too much. Kahlua loves gizzards and hearts, Mojito is still learning. Kahlua is my easy one, I don't know if its due to a past of malnutrition or not, but she will eat near 'bout anything you set infront of her. Mojito is more difficult but we're still working on him. Kahlua had me spoiled- i was like "psh this isnt as hard as people make it out to be" but with Mojito it definately is, lol. About the taurine, though, I thought that meat that's been frozen has experienced taurine deterioration. How can I be sure how long its been frozen/how much taurine has deteriorated? When we buy meat, we generally shop at the local latino market- the meat is fresher/better tasting and I know Kahlua likes it better. Although the meat isn't frozen when we buy it, I don't know if it has been frozen in the past- hmph... I WISH i could buy like a taurine urine test to make sure their getting enough (heck, i wish there was a test for every nutrient, how much easier would feeding be right?! lol) Tequila loves raw treats, again, i was worried about leaving it out but if ground whole meats (at least) can last that long than I'm happy to give him some, if he takes to it with out a problem (he is a sensitive tummy boy, constantly getting either diarrhea or constipation and has been to the emergancy vet 2x for diarrhea that caused dehydration... still not sure what caused the diarrhea in either case- except maybe stress from moving in one case) than I will change him to it n/p. He is a big chi at 9lbs and WAS mostly muscle however I've seen less muscle and more fat lately, he'll be 5 on feb 14 so I want to nip that in the butt. I want him to get the most out of his life X] We got the ferts for 2 reasons: 1) Because Tequila was somewhat raised with ferts at my moms, he missed them (was destructivly releasing energy) and I did, so I wanted some but my fiancee said no. 2) Then.. I watched "Marley and Me" and cried from 1:30a till 5am about how I never want Tequila to leave me. I raised him since he was 4 months old, for his 3rd bday i got his paw print tattoo'd on my ankle- he is my lil man. My finacee became concerned about what would happen to me if anything happened to Tequila (my fiancee is from Honduras where dogs only live till 7 if they're lucky) so he decided to break and let me get ferts so I have more babies to share my love with. If anything ever happens to Tequila I don't think i could ever have another Chi. I tear up just thinking about it. When I saw the taco bell commercial as a little girl, I wanted a chi. Nothing but a chi and finally, before I graduated highschool I got Tequila, i will do anything for that dog and he will for me. At 10 months old, he attacked a pitbull (who was over a yr old) who had bit me while we were playing around (it was my fault, i got on all fours and my head was at level with the pits- what else was he gonna do?) but there was lil ten month old Tequila taring him up. My parents nearly killed me for the associated vet bills that they had to pay the pit's owner (yes, Tequila won- he was quick and knew just where to bite) We have been through some really rough times together too, and hes the only person who has never, ever let me down.
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Post by sunnyberra on Jan 10, 2011 17:47:01 GMT -5
You definitely can feed a completely raw diet on that schedule with now worries. Basically, the more processed the food is (chopped, ground, etc) the quicker it'll go bad, but to give you an idea: Ground food, I generally say about 8 hours. "Raw" foods (RMBs, muscle meals, organ meals, etc) I leave in for about 12-14 hours, ususally Whole prey can go much longer. When my guys get their whole quail, I leave it in there for a full day/bit over (it doesn't last that long, though, before they eat em up). I have a similar schedule. With grad school/work/pre practicum (now) I'm out of the house generally before 7 and I don't get home until late (it'll be 9 or so this semester), and I have absolutely no problem with their diet (raw/whole prey, but mostly raw )
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Post by miamiferret2 on Jan 10, 2011 23:03:41 GMT -5
ziwipeak does have taurine in it. not on the packaging but it is on their site. i found it somewhere. my ferret won't eat the ziwi though. orijen grain free formula for cats/kittens is really good.
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Post by comadrejaloquita14 on Jan 11, 2011 10:11:32 GMT -5
You definitely can feed a completely raw diet on that schedule with now worries. Basically, the more processed the food is (chopped, ground, etc) the quicker it'll go bad, but to give you an idea: Ground food, I generally say about 8 hours. "Raw" foods (RMBs, muscle meals, organ meals, etc) I leave in for about 12-14 hours, ususally Whole prey can go much longer. When my guys get their whole quail, I leave it in there for a full day/bit over (it doesn't last that long, though, before they eat em up). I have a similar schedule. With grad school/work/pre practicum (now) I'm out of the house generally before 7 and I don't get home until late (it'll be 9 or so this semester), and I have absolutely no problem with their diet (raw/whole prey, but mostly raw ) Thank you! now.. is that live quail or frozen (i probably sound nuts) i would worry live quail would try to fight back/hurt someone lol. My fiancee wants to do rats/mice to see if Kahlua (shes more adventerous) will go for it, I used to raise rats and mice that I had saved from being feeder rats and mice so I dont think I can do it. I told him he is more than welcome to, but I will spend that amount of time on the back patio feeding Sailor Jerry his sardines lol. Most of the reson I joined is to learn more about the raw/prey diet WHILE i research, unfortunately I have been super busy at work (the only place I have internet access) so I havn't had a chance to dive deeply into the research part- so for now I may still ask dumb questions like: whats RMB (raw meat bone maybe??) lol sorry I cant wait to get into this stuff
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Post by comadrejaloquita14 on Jan 11, 2011 10:13:38 GMT -5
ziwipeak does have taurine in it. not on the packaging but it is on their site. i found it somewhere. my ferret won't eat the ziwi though. orijen grain free formula for cats/kittens is really good. I may give that a try, I searched Ziwi's page for like 3 days and I didn't see anything about taurine, but I'm buying it for Tequila so I'm sure they'll steal it from him- maybe they'll like it ? If not I might try Orijen- I've heard of it but I havent actually looked into it or even been to their site. Is that dehydrated food aswell?
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Post by sherrylynne on Jan 22, 2011 14:35:06 GMT -5
While live feeding mice is fine if they go for a quick kill, I'd stay away from live feeding rats. They are not only much larger, but more likely to give the ferrets some major wounds from fighting back. I know Heather ran into a problem with live feeding rats a while back. One of them was larger than the others had been, and it involved the entire business of ferrets to bring it down. Not a clean kill in any way, shape or form. I don't believe any of her ferrets were injured, but you really do not want to oversize the prey for the ferrets, because injuries CAN happen. Nor do you want the prey animal to suffer either.
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Post by sunnyberra on Jan 22, 2011 14:42:59 GMT -5
Oh! That's frozen/thawed quail, for sure. I can feed my guys f/t prey food (ha, and even give Hiko rabbit when Cinder the Rabbit lives in the same divided area [blocked by neck-high half walls]), but I just can't take the chance of my guys not being quick killers to even think about live whole prey :\ And no question is dumb! RMBs do in fact = raw meaty bones
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Post by Jackie on Jan 22, 2011 14:43:50 GMT -5
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Post by Heather on Jan 22, 2011 14:52:25 GMT -5
Hmmm, yes, oversized prey can be handled but I don't like to watch anything suffer unduly and I don't want my fuzzes to get injured either. A harsh nip or two makes for a more cautious fuzz, a bad bite can deter a ferret from hunting again and rats can give a nasty fight. My guys did hunt prey that was too large one time. Attila, my largest boy at the time weighing in at just under 5 lbs was the ferret that usually moved first on the rats. He would grab them just behind the skull and kill either by suffocation (this does take longer and isn't the best to watch either ) or he would sever the spinal column (much faster). Size would be a contributor to the type of kill he would be capable of doing. My supplier had up until that time been very good at gauging the right size that my guys could handle. This time the rats were just a bit too large. Attila could not get a good grip on the neck, his mouth was just not large enough and couldn't get a good grasp on the rat. The rat defended himself and lashed out as only cornered prey does. At this point, I figured that I had better start grabbing ferrets and making an attempt to catch the rat. At this point the business moved into hunt mode as a pack (not the way a ferret normally hunts) There were 10 of them at the time. They did catch subdue and kill the rat. It wasn't pleasant, it was more like a hyena kill and I will never attempt it again. My guys hunt mice, but no longer hunt rats. In fact with the business I have presently, only Napoleon, Odin, Thor and Lady "B" are really large enough and a proficient enough hunters to even attempt to hunt larger prey. Fun-Go could possibly hunt larger prey, but his inability to hear his prey would be a bit to his disadvantage. No, we will stick to frozen rats and rabbits. It's much more humane and my furbrats don't stand to suffer injuries while hunting. ciao
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