candiceboggs
Going Natural
Ferrets are nature's anti-depressant.
Posts: 187
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Post by candiceboggs on Jan 9, 2011 2:59:45 GMT -5
Thanks!
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Post by katt on Jan 9, 2011 3:46:11 GMT -5
Please do not take this the wrong way - I do NOT want to seem like I am putting down or judging your beliefs at all. But it does seem that you are in a bit of a tight spot. But personally to me it seems that if you Really want a ferret That bad, something is going to have to give. Perhaps prioritize? If you get a breeder ferret, you can be sure they aren't early weaned or fixed/descented too young, and you can feed raw. Yes they will have had A round of shots, but I mean once you get them they won't have to have any more shots. Good luck with whatever you decide!
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Post by Jackie on Jan 9, 2011 3:49:39 GMT -5
I think a big problem with vaccinations, besides the risk of a bad reaction, is 1) vaccinating too early and 2) vaccinating too often. Maybe you can find a breeder that doesn't vaccinate as young, and then revaccinate if/when you feel like. A partial raw fed ferret is much better off than an only kibble fed ferret. It should also make the switch go more smoothly if they are already eating some form of raw.
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Post by shilohismygirl on Jan 9, 2011 11:31:56 GMT -5
yeah, I am with the above two ladies. I know that you have very set beliefs and ethical standards. However, what happens to the ferret before it passes into your hands, you just have very little control over. If you want a ferret, you will have to settle somewhere. You might not like it, and I totally understand where you're coming from. However, like others have said, breeders in many places are required by law to vaccinate. If that's true in your state, you can't ask them to break the law for you. If you can get a ferret that is partially on raw, that's a major winner in my eyes. You can't control what people do to the ferret before you get it. You can only control what you will do when you get it-and you will give it a fabulous and healthy life. You care this much, and it speaks volumes for you. Good luck and keep us posted.
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Post by Heather on Jan 9, 2011 11:55:27 GMT -5
I'm afraid that you ladies are correct. There is really no way around this (other than to get really upset and very frustrated)...the vaccine issue is going to make it that you don't get a ferret, if you don't give ground. I've had ferrets come in here in terrible shape, horrible backgrounds and still lead good, long and relatively healthy lives. One thing you could consider is looking into a good homeopath to help cleanse your little one when you finally get control of it. I would lean toward the compromise on the breeder level myself. In that you have the greater control of everything. You decide that the ferret is altered after a year (actually some breeders request that you wait that long), chances are you will have a non-breeding agreement or a spay/alter agreement with your breeder. You will be required to take the baby to the vet within a given length of time. Usually, a week to 10 days upon receipt. This is to protect both you and the breeder (you already know about all this because you have purchased a purebred dog). The only warning that I give you, as you've only fostered before.....breeder ferrets are usually a handful. They are notorious for being more single minded, stronger physically, willful, bite harder and can be just plain pig-headed We've had a number of people on this list who have got these adorable little babies only to discover that they're more than a handful. Take it where the wind blows. I know it's a hard pill to swallow but you're just not going to find a breeder, farm or shelter that that doesn't vaccinate. I'm not even bringing up the raw feeding because this isn't the major issue (they all can be switched ) ciao
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Post by miamiferret2 on Jan 9, 2011 15:37:44 GMT -5
Dr. Ruth the sex therapist?! Ok I need to be educated about this distemper vac. I have a 5 month old. he's had the kit distemper vac and then we had him vaccinated 2 more times after that. Other than reactions that we've all heard of, did I put my ferret at risk for cancers or something else bc of the vax that we gave? He had a temp rabies vaccine and we haven't taken him for his adult rabies yet. actually, we have a vet app next sat for rabies vax and deslorelin prophylactic implant. I am hearing a lot about the alternative distemper prevention. what are they and has anyone tried it? Do they work? Please tell me what they are so I can look into them!
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Post by Heather on Jan 9, 2011 17:22:34 GMT -5
I would be really tempted to titre your little one. He should be showing even a positive for rabies right now and probably his distemper as well. I would never vaccinate him again, but that's just me. The reason for the multiple distemper on kits is....that they don't know when the maternal antibodies stop working for the kit (the kit is protected for a time by the mother's antibodies). So they dose them at (I don't know the exact timing) 6 weeks, 10 weeks and 16 weeks Why? because if the mother's antibodies are still functioning when the vaccine is given it won't work. So, we know that maternal antibodies are no longer functioning after week 16, so why not just vaccinate once and be done with it....because they've also been known to no longer be functioning at week 12 and week 10...so you get the picture, you give multiples to cover your bases (it's not about building up the vaccine or boosting the immunity, it all about the I don't know if you're covered or not, so let's just keep sticking him until we're sure). It's absurd, and causes immune damage, why? because the more often you stress the immune system with a pathogen the more likely your body will just go .... oh this again so what. If you want to cover your kit get a single dose distemper (no other crap, like parvo, lepto or anything else) at 12 weeks, even better wait until 18 weeks, even better get a titre done and make sure there is no functioning immunity at that age, then give the vaccine (but you will need really deep pockets for the last one, titres are expensive). The problem with this method...your kit may go through a time where it's body doesn't recognise the pathogen and be vulnerable. There is no such thing as a temp vaccine for rabies. It's the full boost. What you're supposed to do is then vaccinate again at 1 yr. From there on in you vaccinate every 3 yrs (at least that's what the vaccine is for a 3 yr vaccine, please check Dr J Dodds vaccination study...they're up to 5 yrs now) Oh, by the way....Merick (I think that's the mfg) hasn't made an annual vaccine in years, at least 6 or 7. They're all 3 yr protocol, some states require you to vaccinate annually, some vets just forget to tell you that you don't have to vaccinate for rabies annually. Dr J Dodds is trying to prove that the one rabies vaccine that you give is good for the life of the pet. She's well on her way to doing just that, but she's doing the study entirely on donations because this is not good business for the vaccine mfg. They would sooner you pump in that toxin every year . They only tested for 4 yrs. The immunity was still good so they didn't want to hear it any further. I had my dog titre tested when he was 11, he hadn't had a rabies shot since his first rabies at 2. He was still carrying a high enough titre to be able to wave the rabies to allow him to continue his therapy work. ciao
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Post by miamiferret2 on Jan 9, 2011 18:08:02 GMT -5
Ok I just read it was the distemper vac that they receive. Not the rabies. In my county they send you a $300+ fine in the mail if you don't vaccinate for rabies! The vets office sends the info to the county that you own this animal and you vaccinated him on x date in compliance w/ laws. They send you a reminder/threat in the mail that the vax is due. Well, they send you a fine if you don't vax dogs, not ferrets. I will talk to his vet about this.
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Post by rarnold18 on Jan 9, 2011 20:02:35 GMT -5
I know that my county (Seminole, if Fl) will send you reminders for rabies vac if your pet is registered/licensed. I just recently got my little post card in the mail for my dogs, but I won't vac. again unless I have to and there is some problem with the "Wack-a-doo" (neighbor, long story). My dogs have gone as long as 4-5 years without getting their rabies shots and we've never been fined. I know that they want people to register ferrets here but I haven't and it's not like they go door to door checking to see if people have pets, what they are, and cross refrencing them with records... around here animal control only comes around if there is a complaint.
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Post by mustelidmusk on Jan 9, 2011 20:37:04 GMT -5
Here are a few things.....
1. There was a gal, Nikki (she went by the name Aleron), who was involved with this site years ago. She fed raw and raised all her ferrets naturally - she did NOT vaccinate. The name of her ferretry is Aleron ferrets. I did a search on Aleron ferrets and found a site - the pictures were not showing up, but the site may simply nee updating. She also raises dogs naturally. The only problem I see is that I *think* she may be located in Ohio, so you would have to drive there to get a ferret. You'll NEVER get an unvaccinated fert shipped.
2. I STRONGLY recommend that you NEVER fail to complete the series of the 3 baby distemper shots. This will leave your ferret at GREAT RISK. The reason for this is very complicated. All I will say is that the reason for the series of 3 shots involves development of the baby's immune system. Also, she shots can cancel the mom's natural transferred immunity, and/or the shots can cancel each other. By the third shot, most babies will have acquired a reasonable level of protection for at least the first year - maybe more.
3. After doing the baby series, the 1 year booster will be recommended by any vets/breeders. the reason for this is that immunity from the baby baby series will be "solidified" in the event that the baby series was not all that effective. (It's not uncommon for the baby series to provide minimal coverage. )Since I live in a place where distemper risk is HIGH, so I do a baby series and the first year shot. I found that the baby series provided minimal coverage if at all, and the first year booster provided enough immunity (in theory) to probably never need the shots again. Yes, I did the titer checks.
One thing you may be able to do is get a breeder to get you through the baby series (you did NOT start the series, so you might be able to live with this.) You can test titers right after the baby series to see if your baby responds with a good level measure of coverage about 2 weeks at the the shot. Test Titers again when it's time for the first year booster.
Things to consider/keep in mind....
* If your ferret's has a low level of immunity 2 weeks after the third shot, it means his system may not fight distemper naturally on his own. In this case, repeat the titers at the one-year booster time. If your ferret no longer has protection, of if protection levels are really low, you can use the nosodes.
* NOSODES: KEY POINT to understand - Treatment with nosodes is not a vaccination that will stimulate immunity and elevate titer levels. It's a homeopathic remedy that may moderate or reduce the severity of an illness should the animal become infected. Nosodes work best when given a week or so before exposure and repeated a week or so after exposure. There is nothing new about nosodes, they were used primarily before the development of vaccines during epidemics. From what I have heard, the effecay of nosodes varies for different diseases and the nosode source that is used.
I mention these points because people who may be reading about nosodes need to understand the risks involved. It's then up to the individual pet owner to make the decision on whether or not to vaccinate.
In my case, I have witnessed distemper and have assisted in euthanizing wildlife infected with distemper. It is my choice to do the baby series and first year booster.
In Heather's case, she chooses to accept the risk of not vaccinating.
The decision is very personal and controversial regardless of which choices you make.
-jennifer
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Post by mustelidmusk on Jan 9, 2011 21:30:13 GMT -5
Another quick note: Most breeders will feed some kibble unless they require that that the new owner eat raw only. It would be worse for babies to stop eating during their growth phase than it is to feed them a little "junk food".
Also, the other breeder in Washington is not a raw feeder.
Remember, if yo do buy a breeder kit, you do not have to feel you are compromising your principles if you have to complete the baby series. In my opinion, it would be more unethical to NOT complete the baby series since the baby can have its mom's immunity canceled and be left completely unprotected. if the baby series is not completed.
Life is not perfect, and control is simply an illusion.
-jennifer
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Post by miamiferret2 on Jan 9, 2011 21:32:41 GMT -5
i know. i am so afraid of distemper b/c of where i live! it is rampant! you hear about it all the time. in miami they don't wait. if you don't vax your dog you will receive a fine within a few months. without fail. i know a vet that is very involved w/ the black footed ferrets. he is out in texas. they go out, trap them, vaccinate them for distemper and then re-release them. it is necessary b/c distemper almost wiped them out completely.
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Post by mustelidmusk on Jan 9, 2011 21:34:36 GMT -5
Crap, I knew there was one more important thing I forgot to mention. A lot of breeders will not care so much about rabies shots for ferrets because NOT ALL STATES in the US Require rabies vaccinations for ferrets. Example = Colorado.
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candiceboggs
Going Natural
Ferrets are nature's anti-depressant.
Posts: 187
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Post by candiceboggs on Jan 10, 2011 0:02:26 GMT -5
Here are a few things..... 1. There was a gal, Nikki (she went by the name Aleron), who was involved with this site years ago. She fed raw and raised all her ferrets naturally - she did NOT vaccinate. The name of her ferretry is Aleron ferrets. I did a search on Aleron ferrets and found a site - the pictures were not showing up, but the site may simply nee updating. She also raises dogs naturally. The only problem I see is that I *think* she may be located in Ohio, so you would have to drive there to get a ferret. You'll NEVER get an unvaccinated fert shipped. In Heather's case, she chooses to accept the risk of not vaccinating. The decision is very personal and controversial regardless of which choices you make. -jennifer Nikki was the first person I contacted, she is no longer breeding currently due to lack of interest and inability to find homes that will feed raw/not vaccinate. I wouldn't have minded driving. I am in agreement with Heather, and to a certain degree I don't consider not vaccinating a risk per se, as a ferret (any animal really) can die from being vaccinated just as it can die from not being vaccinated. There's risk no matter what you do. I know there to be natural and homeopathic products out there utilized by NR dog breeders for the prevention or treatment of reactions from natural exposure to diseases and they can be applied to ferrets as well. I'm a firm believer in natural immunity and supporting it naturally and as far as I know there are no needles gallivanting around in the woods, pushing themselves into the animals. (Trying to be humorous here.) I do, however, respect your viewpoint and those who decide to vaccinate. I don't want to get into any arguments with anyone or make anybody feel I am pushing my viewpoint down their throats or judging them for where they got their ferrets or what they did with them. There is no need for anyone to get defensive towards me...my reasoning is simply to keep away from so much heartache I have already known and surely no one can fault me that. Heather - I haven't purchased the purebred NR puppy yet. He's not even conceived but it should happen around the end of this year. Thank you for all of the support and comfort, this is difficult but I will end up with a fuzzy one way or another, I just haven't decided how yet. I have a lot of mental hurdles to work through.
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vkp23
Going Natural
Posts: 192
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Post by vkp23 on Jan 10, 2011 9:48:04 GMT -5
Well I will say this much for Marshall ferrets, that pertains to your situation. Which BTW I don't find anything wrong with what you're looking for. In fact, had I known then what I know now, I may not have gotten my children vaccinated. BUT, other than hearing Marshall ferrets get sick with common ferret issues (which lets all face it is probably due to feeding kibble.) I have yet to find any organization who speaks badly of their breeding practice. I still don't necessarily agree with it, but it may not be as bad as other places like "Global Exotics" and "Sun Pet". If there IS bad info on them other than the illnesses, I haven't seen it. Plus they only do a temp distemper vacc. They ARE raised on kibble, but you could weigh your pros and cons based on whats more important to you. I hope you find what you're looking for though. I know all to well how people who want to do things natural get bad raps. Yeah the shelters don't like feeding raw. We got SO much flack for raising our own meat chickens and then butchering our selves. "How could you kill your pets!?" Ummm they were not pets they were food! They were all named Dinner for crying out loud! There is SO much crud in our own food that has been linked to all kinds of illness up to and including fertility issues. (which I suffer from personally with PCOS) Good luck!
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