Halbingefrau's Switching Thread/Sherrylynne

[Heather]

Name: Mary

HF Forum Username: halblingefrau

1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets?

I first read about it on the ferret.com forum. I saw a lot of people refer to this forum so I came over and started reading.

2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to.

Well, I plan on keeping kibble available to them. I would feed totally raw but I don't have a lot of freezer space, plus I am afraid I would forget a meal or something. At least with a partial switch they still have kibble to eat if they get real hungry. And I will probably stick to raw meat and not whole prey. I like the idea of whole prey in terms of its nutritional value, but I know I would be WAY too squeamish about feeding them something whole.

3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet?

For their health. I have read a lot about the benefits. Additionally, I have been told that soupies is a good thing for sick ferrets and I'd like to get my boys to like it now while they are healthy (just in case).

4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment?

Yes, now is a good time for me to start the process.

5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight?

Loki - Loki will be a year somewhere around July. He is a Marshall ferret boy, who is fairly healthy. He is small and to me he seems thin, but I am not sure because my other fert is a MOOSE! I haven't weighed him but I think Loki is about a pound.

Asher - Asher was born around Thanksgiving of last year and is also a Marshall ferret boy. Asher is deaf but no other health problems. He is also MUCH bigger than Loki. I haven't weighed him but I'd say he's around 3 lbs. He doesn't seem to be overweight, just a large boy.

6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc)

They get a mix of Zupreem and DFS Original. I don't really feed treats, but I use ferretone or ferretvite while nail clipping. Loki will occasionally get a bandit peanut butter flavored treat (and by occasionally, I mean once or twice a month, not a daily or weekly thing).

7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened?

I haven't tried to swtich, but I've offered them tastes of cooked egg, cooked chicken, raw chicken, raw beef, chicken baby food, and olive oil. Asher wanted nothing to do with it. Loki sniffed it but would not taste it.

8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?

Loki is the sweet boy with a sweet tooth. He will take any opportunity to try to steal chocolate, peanutbutter, etc. It's a constant struggle.

Asher is my wild child. Even though he can't hear, it doesn't slow him down. Asher has never liked treats, even ferretone or ferretvite. He does like to be held more than Loki does though.

9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?

I have access every day (all day). I have internet access at work, and I have it at home.

10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible).

I need to take more recent ones to show their size difference. Asher used to be TINY and now he's a moose.

Loki and Asher
Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (sherrylynne) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey.
ciao

[sherrylynne]

Hello there! I'm Sherrylynne, and I'll be your mentor for their switch
First, a little about me. I'm 51, and have my own housecleaning business here in Calgary Alberta. I have 4 cats, ranging in age from 4yrs, to 15(only one would eat raw, unfortunately ). I also have 8 ferrets. Boris and Vincent came first, two brothers, a sable and albino. Then Sinnead. I got her when she was 2. She's now 3, and adrenal. She's on lupron, and I've decided against surgery for her.
After that came my first deaf ferret, Lucrezia. A marked DEW. Then two foster ferrets, whom we fell in love with and adopted- Zeus and Athena, both two years old. Also both adrenal, and on lupron.
After that, a little abused ferret we called Willow. She was the worst fear biter I've had, although now she's becoming a sweetie . Then, Emily. 1 month younger than Willow, and those two have bonded strongly. She's the only one Willow wasn't terrified of.Suki is the last one, I swear! She was a little 8 month old darling the pet store was having a hard time selling, so were getting ready to send her back!
While transitioning the first four, Boris was my hold out. EVERYTHING I gave him was poison, in his mind . Worst little drama queen I've seen yet . Twisting to get away, gagging, retching- he did all of it! Then one day- he ate it! Every single piece on the plate ! Those four haven't looked back. Although Boris would still be a kibble head if I let him.
The next two for transitioning were the fosters. Until we adopted them, I could only supplement with raw. So in order not to cause unnecessary tummy upsets(mixing kibble and raw too closely can cause some problems- more about that later), I'd give them raw one day, and kibble on a different day. So, by the time we adopted, they had no problem with 100% raw diet.
With Willow, I brought her home, and she flatly refused to eat the totally ferret kibble, so I went back to the pet store and got her a small bag of the crap they were feeding them there, and brought it home. I tried to give her some, but she just upset the dish. So- I tried her with some chicken breast. She ate it up! Hasn't had kibble since . Emily came to us as a raw fed ferret, so no issues there. That's me and mine in a nutshell

The reason I started looking a raw feeding was something my vet said to me. I was, at the time, giving them small pieces of fruit for treats. She told me that was VERY bad for them, and in fact, some studies have started to link early feeding of sugars with insulinoma later in life. So- I started thinking. Kibbles are full of carbs. It's all those grains/veg/fruits in them. Those are converted to sugars by the body. To me then, sugar= potential insulinoma.
So, I started checking out various diets. I had no idea what an obligate carnivore was at the time. I found out! Not much wonder there was soooo much poop in the box! I may as well have been tossing my money in there. They can't process anything that's not meat based! So I feed meat
Their fur is softer, their energy levels are amazing- no mad rushes then crashing. Even my three year old's teeth are amazing. No plaque whatsoever Healing is faster, and if they do get ill, they have more reserves to rely on than when they were just kibble fed!
And there is a LOT LESS POOP!!!! Yay!
I'm looking forward to helping your little ones get on a much healthier diet, and having fun while we're at it ;D

[halblingefrau]

Wow Awesome, I have a mentor! Yay! I haven't been online a lot because, as you have read, I just rescued a new little girl fert. She is doing awesome and is slowly being integrated with the boys. She is very very sweet and plays well with them. We're just not spending all night in the same cage yet.

The boys are still on soupie. I gave them chunks (1 inch approx) and Loki didn't touch them. Asher stashed them much to my unfortunate discovery. I'm so excited to be officially switching them!

I was feeding soupie to the boys and taking out the kibble and Loki lost weight. So now they have kibble available all the time, but they come running for their soupie. Juno is a tiny baby (we think less than 6 mos, probably closer to 3) so she should be easy to switch.

I've been seeing a lot about feeding dens. Should I worry about that yet, or is it too early with us being in the soupie stage?

[halblingefrau]

Small update: I haven't gotten Juno on raw yet but she is readily taking soupies. I make it with a can of A/D food, her kibble, and some ferretone. Wanted her to get used to a soup texture before moving on to raw. Plus gotta put some weight on this girl! The boys still love their soup but every time I move beyond blended meat, Loki won't eat and Asher stashes. Doesn't matter how small the chunks are.

[sherrylynne]

Hi! First of all, they will lose weight on raw. They aren't getting all those carbs, after all! Once they drop the initial amount, however, they'll start packing it back on as muscle.
I'd try taking out the kibble overnight to start, and try thickening up your soup by adding less liquid. We want to get them onto ground first, since they really didn't take well to the chunks.
And if the kibble is left out overnight, they are more likely to have an appetite come morning

[halblingefrau]

Would it work just as well to take the kibble away in the morning and feed at night? They way my schedule goes, I tend to give soupies in the evening when I get home.

[sherrylynne]

Whatever works best for you The main idea is to get the kibble out for several hours. Doesn't matter when it's done.

[halblingefrau]

Finishing up the last of our kibble and A/D soupie. Juno is much stronger and eating well, so I think it's time to start her on the raw soupie. Gotta defrost some chicken tonight and make a fresh batch. What's the best way to add chunks? The boys take a very thick soupie already. Basically blended up chicken meat and other goodies with the bare minimum of water. I don't have a meat grinder, so I tried to chop pieces up small. Apparently I didn't chop them small enough.

[sherrylynne]

In that case, just start adding a few pieces just a wee bit larger than you do now. If you are dicing them this tiny [], make some of them this big [ ]. They still don't have to chew it, but get used to a larger feeling of the meat.
The idea is to slowly increase size, and then teach them how to chew it. Not as hard as it sounds . You start with a few pieces, which they may or may not take to right away. The main ingredient in switching ferrets is persistence. And your frame of mind. Once you've made the firm decision that they ARE going to eat this new diet, then you will have the patience and persistence to make it happen

[halblingefrau]

I'll start adding a "topping" of tiny dices to their soupie. Right now the soupie is total mush (no chunks b/c it's blended).

I did start adding Ziwipeak to their kibble bowl. I'm super paranoid about missing a meal or something with them so I want to make sure they have some food available at all times. I know it's not good to have kibble out when they're going raw b/c of the digestion times. Once they're used to the ziwipeak, would it be safe to have it out constantly? As opposed to now when i take the kibble out some hours before soupie.

[sherrylynne]

I'd also remove the ziwipeak before feeding, and just put it in following the attempt. A healthy ferret has no problem what so ever going up to about 12 hours with no food at all.
You want them to have an appetite when you are transitioning. Once they are fully on raw, no reason you can't leave it in for nibbly's.
Only thing I'm not overly fond of with ziwipeak is the molasses in it. That contains sugars.

[halblingefrau]

Well, we're happy to eat soupie, but we're not taking chunks. No one seems to like them except Asher who likes to stash them. Slow and steady I guess. I'll keep with the soupie and try again with small chunks later.

[sherrylynne]

In that case, just keep thickening up the mush, til it's more the consistency of wet ground meat, then start adding some tiny dices of meat. That way you ease them into it a bit easier.

[halblingefrau]

So, Asher is stashing everything other than soupies. That's the reason we stopped with the chunks and went back to soupies. But now he's stashing kibble too. Not sure why he's doing this and I'm not sure how or if I can stop it.

[sherrylynne]

Can you give him a plae to stash it? Like a feeding den? It's normal for ferrets to stash almost everything, so if you can direct that, that's ideal.
Every time he goes to stash something, redirect him to a feeding den. Sooner or later, he'll automatically take his food there. Since you won't be able to stop the stashing, you may as well try to make it easier on yourself for recovering it, lol.
And if you make the pieces to tiny to worry much about stashing, he'll be more likely to eat them.
For mine, since they didn't take well to chunks of any size, I really had to use a lot of thick soup to get them used to the idea of textures.