Taratee's Switching Thread/Heather

[Heather]

Name: Tara
HF Forum Username: Taratee

1. Where did you first learn about natural diets for ferrets? I read about it in my initial research on ferrets about a year ago.

2. Please describe the type of diet you would like assistance in switching your ferret(s) to. Be sure to include if you are interested in feeding whole prey (live or frozen-thawed) and if you are wanting to FULLY switch to a natural diet or PARTIALLY. If you are unsure what kind of diet you want to put your ferrets on, please express that and we can help you find the best type of natural diet for your ferret. I want to switch my ferrets to a more natural diet something that will be really good for them nutritionally I dont worry about the ease of preparation, or the meat its self. I even have a snake so feeding live mice wouldnt really be that big of a problem for me, I just want them to have a good balanced diet and I'm willing to do whatever is best (as long as I am able to do it)

3. Why are you interested in switching your ferrets to a natural diet? I kinda discussed that before, I just really want my ferrets to get all the stuff they need to be healthy happy little critters

4. Do you understand that switching your ferret to a natural diet can be a lengthy, arduous process? Its not an overnight switch. It can be a commitment of several weeks or even months. Your HF Mentor will be more then happy to assist you in switchng your ferret(s) to a natural diet, but you need to be equally as commited. If you aren't willing to tough out a potentially lengthy switching process, or if you have major life changes approaching (baby on the way, moving, starting school, getting married/divorced, etc) then it might be a better idea to wait on switching your ferret's diet until you have more time. Are you willing to make the commitment? Yea I broke my ankle recently so I'm not working, I'm home all day with the fuzzbutts so I've got time

5. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names? Ages? Genders? Do they have any health problems? Are they overweight? Underweight? I will start with my first ferrets:
Tia is a female standard sable she is the smallest, our vet says shes the size of a four month old ferret but has good muscle tone and such so hes not worried about her size, she is four years old and shes showing signs of adrenal disease but our vet says he wont operate on a ferret her size that the risks out weigh the rewards.

LuLu is a female white ferret with a silver tail, our vet says shes a pretty good size girl shes probably three years old shes not showing signs of any health problems

I got Tia and Lu off of craigslist together a year ago, they were a good starter pair pretty easy girls the girl i got them from said they were eating raw but wouldnt tell me what the diet was she had them on so i could continue to feed them it *frustrating*

Ichabod is a male black mitten ferret I believe hes pretty handsome, hes probably six months old now I got him in October from a pet store, no health problems just stole my heart and I had to have him, Ive tried to treat him with some raw foods before but he doesnt seem to care much, hes a bit pudgy but hes got hid baby fat and its winter.

Crane is a male I have no idea what coat pattern he is, hes white and black and splotchy he came into the petstore the same time as Ichabod most likely from the same litter he has some jaw problems and he was the biggest of the lot but hes looking a bit on the small side, he was returned to the petstore after a college boy decided he couldnt keep a ferret in his dorm, Ive also learned crane likes to chew cords so he was mostlikely returned because the boy didnt know what he was getting into

I keep the two boys together because Tia tends to be agressive and beat up on the boys, and theyre such wimps they cant defend themselves at all lol

6. What diet do you currently feed your ferrets? (Please include all treats, supplements, etc) I feed them 8-in-1 ultimate mixed with 8-in-1 ultra blend, and after reading online what ultra had in it I became distressed and knew I needed to change things, They also have bandits premium ferret treats ferretvite ferretone uncle jims duk soup all which i give them sparingly the vite i give most often


7. Have you ever tried to switch your ferrets to a natural diet in the past? If yes, what happened? As far as I know Tia and Lu have eaten natural before and were fine on it, but my new babies dont seem to care much, crane is a picky eater

8. What additional information about yourself or your ferrets would you like to share?

9. How often during the week do you have access to a computer?all day every day

10. Please post a picture of each of your ferrets (if possible). I'm working on this because ive got some pretty cute brats

Hi and welcome to the mentoring program. In a little while your mentor (Heather....whoo hoo that's me ) will introduce herself and you can get started on a new adventure in natural ferret care and diets. Please remember to post regularly (daily or as per arranged with your mentor) so that your mentor can assist you move along safely in this adventure. If you experience computer difficulties or are going to be away, please notify your mentor and most of all relax and have fun . Your mentor is here to help you on this journey.



Hi
I'm Heather, and we're going to be working together for the next little while trying to convince your furbaby to change to a healthier diet
I've been feeding a raw/natural diet for a little over 10 yrs. I have a small private rescue/sanctuary, just outside of Toronto, Canada where all ferrets turned into me are switched immediately over to a raw diet that consists of ground raw/whole meats or frankenprey/ and prey diet. At present every ferret eats this full range of diets. I don't keep kibbles in the house. All my furbabies are free roaming and have access to an outdoor play area that they can access at will. At present there are 12 little fuzzbutts who call this their permanent home. They range in ages of about 1 yr to my senior citizen, Dr. Pooka Dooks who is approx. 10 yrs. My most difficult switch was a little senior who was turned in at 9 yrs of age (she by the way has been my biggest raw switch challenge, which had me at times wondering why I was doing this to her) She eventually was completely switched and putting on a beautiful dark black coat, teeth that were nicely cleaned up, and she actually has a lot of fun investigating the house (she used to do nothing but sleep when she first was turned in). She has made me aware that every ferret no matter how old, can get a new lease on life by eating a species appropriate diet. She eventually passed on at 11 yrs of age to complete organ failure....old age.
Raw soupy is my favourite switching tool and one that I've had the most success with.
You can try to get them to eat a raw soup immediately. You will need a blender/food processor, and the following raw items:

8 oz raw chicken thigh meat (including skin and fat)
1/2 tsp of crushed eggshell powder (take a raw eggshell. Rinse it out. Let it dry. Crush to powder)
1 raw chicken heart
1/2 raw chicken liver
Water or broth(use more to make it soupier, less to make it thicker)
Blend ingredients together. Some prefer it at room temp. Try putting a dollop of "soup" onto your ferret's nose and they probably will lick it off. I use my finger. Sometimes this takes a little bit trying to convince them that you're not trying to poison them I find within a very short time they're licking this off my finger. When I see that they're willing to eat freely off my finger then I use a small spoon to try and get them to eat from that. Try to get them eating the soupy on their own. It might pique their interest.

Most ferrets will willingly eat the food once they actually TASTE it, so the only struggle you *should* encounter is them not wanting to taste it. Don't be surprised if your furbabies' initial reaction is to gag, spit and look at you like, what are you trying to poison me with But don't let them get away with it The hardest part is to insist and be consistent. Please also be aware that after years of kibbles they aren't aware that what you're offering them is indeed food. Once they willingly eat from your finger and spoon, work to try and get them eating this out of a dish or plate.

Each time you make your soupy, use a little less water to make it thicker/chunkier. Replace soup with fresh soup every 4-6 hours. You can make a large batch if you like and freeze into ice cubes or cupcake trays. Then you just thaw a portion and serve. OR you can put a frozen "cube" into their bowl and let it slowly thaw.

This is a good way to slowly ease them into wet foods. I use this method to switch all my furbabies and I've personally switched approximately 30 ferrets of my own in the last few years.
I will let you read through and if you have any questions please ask.
Good luck
ciao

[taratee]

Hey Heather!!! I'm so excited to have a mentor I was wondering why thigh meat? can i substitute chicken breast? While I'm feeding them this soup should they also still have kibble? Is a feeding Den a good idea, because I have a boy who seems to be a shy eater. I'm still relatively new to ferrets ive only owned them about a year and I love my ferrets very much and am willing to get creative to provide them with the most beneficial life i can

[Heather]

The reason for suggesting thigh meat is because it has a higher concentration of fat than breast meat. It is also higher in taurine than white meat. Your ferrets need a much higher fat ratio than we do. If all you have on hand is breast meat that is fine but make sure that you use the skin and the fat that you find with that cut as well. I definitely would keep them on kibble until you've successfully got them eating their meat but try to not feed any kibble (remove the kibble) for a couple of hours before feeding the raw soupy.
A feeding den is an excellent idea. I don't usually start them there as they usually sit on my knee and eat to begin with but you can try it and see if it works. I like to physically see them eat as I"ve had a couple who were very good at making the scene and going through the motions but never actually eating anything .
ciao

[taratee]

So holding them and letting them lick the soup off a spoon is the way to start? what about syringe feeding? is that something that would be a last resort, mostly im afraid my wimpy boys wont take to it, it took me a month to get them to like ferretone, so im not too sure how this will go over. will try it tomorrow and post results

[Heather]

I quite often make it fairly liquid to start and dab their noses and let them lick it off. Let them gag and sputter, let them go and then try it again in a few minutes. Usually after their initial reactions of eck....ewww.....momma's trying to poison us ...they suddenly decide they like it. I don't like syringe feeding but will do it as a last resort. Usually, I finger dip to start, once they start licking my fingers then I resort to spoon feeding.
ciao

[taratee]

they all are eating soup from the spoon!! tia my tiny ferret ate a lot more soup then ive seen her eat dry food in a long time, she was noticeably heavier after eating soup, i doubled up the rescipe you gave me thinking that whatever was left over would be frozen for later. they are having a hard time remembering what it is, my boys have been eating off the spoon but when they run off and come back theyve forgotten what it is and i have to reintroduce it to them... how much of this should they be eating? i dont want to over feed them I'm assuming when theyre done for good they will let me know. sorry about the lack of posts its taken me more time to get hearts/gizzards my local stores were sold out... which was really weird and ive had a cold and im trying not to handle them as much while im sickly

[Heather]

Amounts are always suggested, they're not written in stone Here's a post that sherrylynne stickied because this is a question most asked holisticferret.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gen&action=display&thread=4764 When I first switch, I just let them eat. Generally, they often eat like that food isn't coming back tomorrow. Their little bodies crave it, they eat in amounts that are often in the range of young kits. It's just their bodies trying to fill the nutritional void that the kibble hasn't been able to fill.
To start with they can be a bit daft about what is and isn't food Which is why many people get so frustrated because the little blighters will just gobble up their soupy and the next morning when their momma goes to leave it in their cage....no body eats it Persistence is the key to good switching practices. It's also one of the reasons why we tell new students that once you make the commitment you have to stick to it. I've had a number who have switched their ferrets but because it didn't fit into their schedule (weekend get together, holidays etc) they didn't bother and suddenly they're back to square one again. I've had one student ever since she came on board. She's totally inconsistent about keeping her furkids eating raw. She has a large business so once one slips then they all go for the ride
Yes, you will notice that they will consume more and go longer between meals. You will also note that they do appear to weigh more after a good meal of raw (they also poop less )
Keep me posted (I do understand about handling the less when you have a cold)
ciao

[taratee]

I've got nothing to do, considering I'm a bit home bound. so until theyre eating it willingly i will be too anxious to leave it in the cage, feeding them by spoon is pretty rewarding when they arent giving me sad eyes about me poisoning them with icky raw soup

[Heather]

ciao

[taratee]

ichabod has taken to the soup pretty well but hes also making noises like he might throw up, but woah is there less poop already. what ive been doing is during the day theyre out in the bedroom with me all day i put them away in the middle of the day for like two hours for a nap and then get them back out for the rest of the night and the only kibble they have is in the cage the two boys are currently eating a little over one batch of soup during the day, ive put a plate with it out by their water and they graze on it and whenever i catch one ill sit on the floor and spoon feed them until they wiggle away

[taratee]

also the poo is way less solid im assuming that this is normal\



EDIT:I had to add that Tia, my ferret who the vet said was the size of a 4 month old ferret and was very very painfully thin now has a winter belly, she is noticeably rounder and enjoying the small bits of gizzard i slip her in the morning to get her up and ready for soup. I always knew in the back of my head that the kibble was to blame for her being so painfully thin, she will climb me for soup just like she will for vite and hand feeding her has brought us closer I hope, even if the others dont want to convert to raw I'm definitely making them now, just for her sake. In the year ive had her this is the heaviest shes ever been even feeding her tons of treats and vite every other day, and hand feeding her other soups she didnt like, its all worth it knowing that this is what she needed

tomorrow: chunky soup will report back with details about how it goes

hypothesis: boys too young and dumb to know its food, predicting lots of sad eyes and countless looks saying "but mom whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy" I of course will reassure them its good for them but they will still pout like ive just taken their favorite toys. girls will do just fine if lu is smart enough to realize its food shes our special ferret lol

wish me luck and send me strong vibes of perseverance as i take my next baby steps

( on a side note i find it funny that im literally learning to walk after my broken ankle, and im metaphorically learning how to *walk the walk* feeding raw food )

[Heather]

I"m glad that you're seeing progress in their appearance. You've no idea the changes you will see in a couple of weeks, it can be amazing.
The poop will be softer and less formed. That is normal, if you find it's getting too loose try adding a bit more ground calcium. Ferrets need this more than anything. Bone is what they really need but until you get them eating whole meats the egg shell will have to do.
Ahhh, the journey is more than just metaphorical...each must walk their own path, though all journeys start at the beginning Good luck to both you and your furchildren.
ciao

[taratee]

is there anything i can sacrifice for eggshell because my boyfriend without thinking threw out our eggs even though i asked him to keep the shells, ill have some in the next two hours but if i can sub anything for them now id rather

[Heather]

Calcium powder, bonemeal (foodgrade)....bone
feed the fuzzes some eggs
ciao

[taratee]

So the thick soup is finally being recognized as food, but not enough for them to see it and go "SOUP!!!" and eat it, i still have to coax ichabod and lulu to eat it tia knows what it is and crane is about 50-50 on knowing what it is i dont know how fast or slow they should be catching on to the concept maybe if i warmed it up some? its being fed at room temp right now, lulu refuses to eat without me holding her and spoon feeding her and ichabod each time has to be shown that yes its that stuff youve been eating for like four days its not going to kill you.

also tia has started to grab mouth fulls and run off with it and quickly come back for more so im not sure if she is stashing it somewhere or just a shy eater