Raw questions

[ferretrunner]

I've been looking at some of the commerical raw diets for awhile. Most of the diets for cats include natural fruits and vegetables. Our babies are obligate carnivores, as are cats. Do the ferrets need some of the nutrition found in the veggies or can they do 100% meat based diets?
Right now, I am considering a raw/ kibble mix diet. I'll feed Innova Evo and/or Wysong Archetypal.

The raw I am consider is Primal. primalpetfoods.com/product/list/c/7

The grinds: Chicken: chicken neck, chicken frames, chicken heart, chicken liver. Crude protein: 14%, crude fat 7%, crude fiber 1%, crude moisture: 68%.
Turkey: neck, wing, heart, liver: protein: 18%, fat 10%, fiber 1%, moisture 68%. primalpetfoods.com/product/list/c/9

The protein seems low or is that because it's not kibble? Can this safely be a diet for ferrets? Or is it missing something?

Primal also has chicken wings and other bone type treats. I know I'll probably need to use these for tooth/ jaw strength and health.

The other diet is Nature's Variety. www.naturesvariety.com/InstinctRaw/cat/all

[sherrylynne]

The protein level shows as lower both because it's not concentrated like the dried is, and it doesn't include plant proteins. Depending on the kibble, they can really up the levels on the bag with that, even if our kids can't utilize it
Primal sounds pretty good, for a commercial raw, as long as you stick to the "raw frozen formula", and not the "raw frozen mix". You want to stick with something that has 5% non- digestibles(veg/fruits) with no grains in it. I use Urban Carnivore for mine. It's pure meat/bone/organ. That way, I can add what I want to it.
www.carnivora.ca/html/featured_products/fresh_frozen_products/index.cfm
I was using Nature's Variety, but figured why pay more for the convenience of 1oz patties, when I didn't necessarily want what else they'd put in it
And why spend the extra cash for their chicken wings- just go to your supermarkey

[jackiek]

hey guys i just joined the forum.. i have been recently on ferret harmony forum and some of the members recommended this forum.. i have a 13 week old ferret (my first ferret) (danger) and hes been on kibble (wellness core cat food) seems to have the highest protein.. but ive read so many good things about raw diet.. i wanna switch my ferret to raw food but im not exactly sure how..i was wondering if anyone can help me here.. im looking for the easiest way (ordering the meat online etc) since i only have one ferret i can afford to get him the best quality meat possible i just dont know what or how much or if it should be live mice etc... can anyone point me in the right direction? im kinda clueless since this is my first little baby ferret.. i want to do everything the right way i love him so much....

[bluemoose]

You might want to start your own thread on the member introductions section holisticferret.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=intro

Also feel free to browse the nutrition section for info about raw and whole prey diets and ask any questions you have on that subject there holisticferret.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=rawwhole This forum has a great mentoring program to help you switch your ferret to a natural diet. Because yours is young you shouldn't have much trouble but some ferrets are more stubborn than others.

To answer a couple of your questions, you can indeed order meat online. rodentpro.com/ and www.hare-today.com/ are great places to start. The prey doesn't have to be live but some of us do use live mice for extra enrichment. I don't feed anything larger than mice live but the choice of what and whether to feed live is a personal one everyone makes for themselves. How efficiently your ferret kills live prey and your level of comfort with it will probably factor into whether you feed anything live.

[odin]

There is an article somewhere on this forum, that i tried to find that is all about the horrors of pet food companies and all the tricks they use to make it seem like there is more of something in their food and hide the percentages etc...

anyway... the part that i remember is that when a moist food has a moisture content like that, it's just water. So even though the protein appears low, it isn't because of all the moisture.

Like in yours it says 68% moisture. if you take that out, and figure out the percentages left after the moisture is removed, the protein is crazy high. So this same food, if it was freeze dried, would be something like 50% protein. But we would just rehydrate that anyway. So there's some crazy formula you can use to compare protein ratios between dry food and moist food that puts them on an even level.

I wish i had the article to link you... if someone else knows what i'm talking about and where to find it, maybe they can stick up here.

[odin]

FOUND IT!! i'm an idiot... it's in the sticky right at the top of this page in the recommended reading articles. This is the part:

Because of the variation in water content, it is impossible to directly compare labels from
different kinds of food without a mathematical conversion to “dry matter basis.” The numbers
can be very deceiving. For instance, a canned food containing 10% protein actually has much
more protein than a dry food with 30% protein.
To put the foods on a level playing field, first calculate the dry matter content by subtracting the
moisture content given on the label from 100%. Then divide the ingredient by the dry matter
content. For example, a typical bag of dry cat food contains 30% protein on the label, but 32% on
a dry-matter basis (30% divided by its dry matter content, 100-6% moisture = 94%). A can of cat
food might contain 12% protein on the label, but almost 43% on a dry-matter basis (12% divided
by its dry matter content, 100-72% moisture = 28%). Dry food typically contains less than 10%
water, while canned food contains 78% or more water.

[jacksmomma]

I use the primal commercial raw as a pretty big part of my boys' diet. For whatever reason, when they eat the primal (versus just meat that i bought at the grocery store) they have much nicer poops (as nice as poop can be ) I think the very small amount of undigestables (1 % in the primal) helps their poops look more formed.

[Heather]

That's how it works. I found that if I fed a small percentage of veggie matter my guys digested their food better. I now put in some veggie matter into their ground food. I started it when I had a couple of IBD ferts....I discovered that they had better more consistently formed poops with fewer stomach upsets. As things progressed I found that the rest of the furbrats also appeared to benefit from a small amount of veggie matter too. If you're feeding 100% prey then you don't have to add this (there is fur and other things that don't digest in the mix) but when you're feeding frankenprey, you have to find something to take the place of all those things that don't digest in the prey. Veggies serve the purpose perfectly
ciao

[katt]

Nov 5, 2010 23:04:59 GMT -5 Heather said:

That's how it works. I found that if I fed a small percentage of veggie matter my guys digested their food better. I now put in some veggie matter into their ground food. I started it when I had a couple of IBD ferts....I discovered that they had better more consistently formed poops with fewer stomach upsets. As things progressed I found that the rest of the furbrats also appeared to benefit from a small amount of veggie matter too. If you're feeding 100% prey then you don't have to add this (there is fur and other things that don't digest in the mix) but when you're feeding frankenprey, you have to find something to take the place of all those things that don't digest in the prey. Veggies serve the purpose perfectly
ciao

I second this 100%
I just wanted to add that with whole prey (when they actually eat the stomach), they get the partially digested veggie contents of the prey's last meal too. So that is also part of what you are replacing by adding in a little veggie matter. Koda definitely does better with a little fiber. He has IBD though (good to know it helps the other ferts!). I find that canned pumpkin seems to work the best so far. Squash baby food is ok too, but the pumpkin is better.

[odin]

I AGREE!! PUMPKIN IS THE GREATEST FERRET TUMMY AID EVER!!!