Glynus's Switching Thread

[glynus]

1. How many ferrets do you currently have? What are their names, ages, genders, and do they have any health problems (this is VERY important)?
Two: Bastien, male, early stage adrenal. Melinda, female, now healthy . Both are about 1 ? years old.

2. What are your ferrets currently eating? Include their main diet, plus any treats or supplements (such as duk soup).
Totally Ferret kibble. Bastien gets FerretVite daily with his Melatonin. I have been giving them meat baby food and adding a little raw chicken. Various unhealthy ?ferret treats? (Bandits raisin flavored treats are their favorite)

3. What kind of diet do you want to switch to?
Raw. Don?t think I could do whole prey and KNOW I can?t handle live!

4. Why do you want to switch to this more natural diet?
Bastien is so young to already be showing signs of adrenal disease.. I want to give them the healthiest diet I can.

5. Where/what/who got you interested in natural diets?
Amyandfuzzies7 responded to my questions on the Insulinoma/Adrenal Ferrets group at Yahoo.

6. Please list the current weight for your ferret(s). Do they appear overweight? Underweight? How is there muscle tone?
At last vet visit, Melinda was 1 lb 12; can?t remember what Bastien?s weight was but he is a little bigger than Mel. Neither is overweight. I think Melinda could stand to gain a little.

7. What is the condition of your ferret's teeth/gums? (can you get a picture?)
Teeth are white. Gums are nice dark pink. Might be able to get a picture next time my daughter comes over - I don?t think I can pry open their mouths and hold the camera at the same time!

8. Describe the texture/color of your ferrets coat.
Bastien is sable. Soft fur but thinning . Melinda is albino. Soft and thick fur.

9. How often does your ferret go to the bathroom?
Not sure. Probably 4 -5 times a day?

10. Does your ferret's feces and/or urine smell?
Not really

11. Smell your ferret. How strong is their odor?
Not very strong

12. On a scale of 1-10, 1 being completely lethargic and 10 being "through the roof!" what is your ferret's energy level?
Melinda will be a 9 one day and a 4 -5 the next (like she has to recuperate from the craziness the day before!) Bastien is never quite as hyper as Melinda but he does have his moments. He also seems to follow the one day on, one day off schedule.

13. How excited is your ferret about meal time (when fed kibble)?
They get very excited when they see me fill up the bowl? until they figure out that it?s not treats!

14. Have you attempted to switch from kibble to a natural diet in the past? If so, what methods have you tried. Be specific.
I have been experimenting with adding chicken to baby food. Melinda doesn?t seem to mind. If she finds a ?larger? piece she will take it off and stash it. Bastien, on the other hand will only eat it if he doesn?t know it?s there. When he finds a piece, he looks at me like I put broccoli in his chocolate cake and won?t go near it again unless I finger feed him.

15. What other information about your ferret(s) would you like to share?
Bastien is on 2/5 ml Melatonin daily. He has not had surgery for his adrenal issues. The vet wants to try controlling them with medication instead of rushing into surgery.


16. If you can, please post a clear photograph of EACH of your ferrets directly below:








17.

a.) Do you understand that by starting this thread you commit to posting updates on the progress of your ferret(s) diet switch atleast every other day?**
Yes

b.) Do you understand that if you will be away from your computer for an extended period of time you will need to exchange phone numbers (or email addresses if you don't feel comfortable exchanging numbers)via private message with your assigned mentor, so that we can monitor your progress and ensure your ferret's saftey during the switch?
Yes

c.) Do you understand that any threads that have not been updated in for more then a week (with no explaination as to why you are absent) will result in the deletion of the thread?***
yes

[tsslilsis]

Welcome! I'm Katherine AKA Ketin and I'll be mentoring you.

I have three ferrets, They are all rescues in some way or another, and all three eat raw and whole prey. First came Weezer is roughly 3 I've had him for just over a year. The pervious owners thought he was a girl, and as long as they had him the didn't know but he is deaf. He was bought for a friends teenage boys and they didn't want him anymore and left him in the basement and never played with him. then I met him and knew I had to have him. Lillian is about two and was in the same scenario but she had already been through at least two homes when she came to live with me, Monday was her one year anniversary. Last but not least is Ravi who is around age 1 and he was abandoned in a house when his family moved away and for whatever reason didn't bring him along. He was found and taken to a shelter and we found him on Petfinder and traveled a couple hours to get him. They thought he was a girl, But I found out different and they said they just hadn't found anyone able to sex ferrets..

Ravi and Lillian went right onto raw their first days here. Lillian even had whole prey her first day here. Weezer took months to be okay with raw, but we were still new ferret owners and I'm sure if we had done something differently then it would have been quicker.



You are doing great with the chicken and baby food. How long have you been trying that now? I can tell your little girl is going to be and easy one to switch. Your little boy shouldn't be too far behind, even though he doesn't love the chicken he is eating it and that is the most important. Is the chicken bone in, skin on?

By the way, Your little ones are adorable. Bastien reminds me a lot of Weezer!

-*Ketlin

[glynus]

Hi Katherine! Nice to meet you! I am impressed that all 3 of your furkids are rescues. I work with a small local feline rescue group and it never ceases to amaze and horrify me what people will do to animals Unfortunately, I am highly allergic to cats (I had 3 - the oldest was 21 and I had bottle fed him when he was tiny - but I had to promise my doctors that I wouldn't get anymore) Even after being hospitalized with asthma on several occasions, I couldn't even think of giving up my babies. Anyway, happily, I am not allergic to ferrets and I have decided that they are just like kittens that never grow up! Of course, sometimes I wonder if that's a good thing

I started giving Melinda and Bastien baby food occasionally several months ago because I wanted to get them used to it just in case they ever got sick and couldn't handle the kibble. At the time I hadn't even thought about feeding raw but I knew that they could be difficult to get used to something new and wanted to have a back up just in case it was ever needed. I'm glad now that I did!

Neither of the kids have been at all interested in bones. The chicken I have been using has some skin but when I bought it at the grocery it was going to be for my consumption and I wasn't real interested in a lot of skin! (good thing I like dark meat and not chicken breasts, I guess) I just bought a little 3 cup food processor so I have been able to get more meat mixed in to the baby food, mushed up enough that Bastien tolerates it (although he still looks at me like I am trying to poison him). I think I have found a butcher shop where I can get organs, etc. I am going to go there on Sunday to check it out. Baby food is too expensive even for only one meal a day to keep this up for too long. Hopefully, I can get them interested in some other sort of soup mix. What kind of things do I need to look for?

Thank you for your help! Happy Thanksgiving!

teri

[tsslilsis]

I'm a strong believer in rescuing, All four of my dogs are rescued as well, but they all have long stories behind them.

As far as them eating bone, if you haven't already try taking a chicken wing and chopping it into half inch sections then "smother" it in the baby food. That will generally make it more appealing as the marrow is exposed. Until they are consuming bone I would suggest taking some dried out agg shell and either pounding it into powder or putting it into the food processor and turning it into powder and sprinkling it over the food.. That would only be a short term solution. Or, it would be even better if when you go to the butcher you ask about getting some of the bone powder from his saw, then it will have the same benefits of eating actual bone, minus the teeth cleaning.

As far as what to look for at the butcher, though not fed as organ some heart would be a good idea as it has tuarine in it which is a must for ferrets. The rule used for dogs is "If it doesn't secrete feed it as meat", That term was brought to the forum by my sister and it also applies to ferrets. Organs to look for would be liver, kindey, spleen, thymus and pancreas.

-Ketlin

[glynus]

I don't have any bone-in meat yet but I will get some next time I go shopping. (or at least at the butcher shop on Sunday)

Last night I gave them some pieces of turkey heart just for the experience. Bastien wouldn't go near it - of course. Melinda stole the pieces and took them to her hidey hole but wouldn't actually try to eat them.

This morning I gave them a little ground up pork mixed up with water instead of baby food and just a little ferretvite to get them interested. Melinda loved it and even Bastien liked up the "gravy" and a little of the meat. Once it got down to just meat they both lost interest but it's a start I am going to try again tonight with some chicken and see what happens.

They still have kibble in their cage all the time. I'm wondering if I should take that out at least for a while before I give them meat...

[tsslilsis]

You can actually take the kibble away for 12 hours before giving them the meat. Some people wait 24 hours but that is unnessisary if they would be willing to take it after 12. For Bastian it may not be that he doesn't like raw, he may be full. Also, Since kibble is dry and has undigestable things in it, they shouldn't have the choice of both at the same time as kibble and meat are digested at different rates.. Sometimes it will upset their stomaches. So its a good idea to wait before offering the meat so not only will they be hungry but the kibble would be out of their system.

Now, if you were to sprinkle the meat with ground up kibble, that would be different because it would be powder and not much effort would be put into digesting it. I would actually suggest waiting the 12 hours then offering meat sprinkled with kibble powder and seeing if Bastian would take to it.

I am interested in seeing you try these steps (Mainly the 12 hour wait) and seeing what kind of progress that gets you.

Just don't be discouraged by Bastian, I'm sure he will come around!

-~Ketlin

[glynus]

Yesterday I took the kibble away for about 8 hours before giving them raw pork (ground to mush) with some turkey liver and water. They kind of drank the "juice" but didn't eat much of the meat. This morning I tried chicken mush with just water to make a soup. Neither would touch it so I added a little ferretvite to get them interested. Melinda ate a fair amount but Bastien again just drank the juice and spit out the meat. My daughter tried to force a tiny piece into his mouth and he proceeded to show her just how many different ways and how far he could spit it out I was disappointed that even with it in his mouth he wouldn't chew or swallow it but it was kind of funny to watch!

I just gave them a bowl of baby food and mushed chicken. Bastien ate a little. Melinda ate some and is now in the process of stashing some of the bigger pieces under the desk.... ok so what tastes like human ankle? She just had to take a nibble on her last run to the bowl

I am planning to take the kibble out of their cage tonight and see how they do in the morning. Hopefully they will be hungry enough to eat more raw. If not, I guess I will keep on with the baby food...

Tomorrow, I go to the butcher. Maybe I will get lucky and find something that they really like

[tsslilsis]

If Bastian doesn't take to it Tomorrow, then I think you should try sprinkling some kibble powder on it. Melinda is doing great, but it sounds like Bastian not only looks like Weezer but has the same mentality as Weezer did with raw in the begining. They might like some beef. Weezer is very picky but he takes right to things like beef heart.

You could also try some completely pureed chicken and toss some kibble in there while it is in the food processor.. Then if Bastian takes to that you could slowly reduce the amount of kibble.

We will get him to accept it at some point. No worries!!

-~Ketlin

[glynus]

Well, I got a little excited this morning. Both Melinda and Bastien ate a fair amount of chicken... of course, I had to finger feed Bastien I did not put the kibble back in their cage and was hoping they would do as well tonight but no such luck. Melinda ate pretty well but... I started with the chicken left over from this morning, then tried some pork mixed with water and ferretvite, added a little ferretone, added baby food, added crushed kibble... finally gave in and finger fed Bastien straight baby food. He didn't eat much but at least he did eat something.

I'm debating on whether to put the kibble back in the cage tonight. I won't be able to spend 45 minutes convincing Bastien to eat in the morning since I have to go back to work. Maybe I will leave it out and then if he doesn't eat I will put it back so that he will have something while I am at work. I have to keep reminding myself that this is healthier for them and worth the effort

The butcher shop did not pan out as I had hoped so I will have to keep looking for another source. I did get some chicken wings and legs (with skin and bones) at the grocery store. If I ever get them to actually eat raw, they may have a somewhat limited diet.

Oh, I did add some crushed egg shell to the mush. How much should they get?

I noticed tonight that there was a lot of urine in the litter boxes and it smelled fairly strong. Is this normal? I know that they are getting more liquid with the baby food and all the "soup" I am trying to get them to eat but I was surprised by the smell. Haven't noticed much difference in their poop.

They also both seem to be sleeping more. They run around for a while but then they find places to curl up. They may just be bored or maybe I am being overly cautious right now...

[tsslilsis]

Add about 1 teaspoon egg shell powder per eight ounces of meat.

Since there was more urine in the litter boxes than your use to that might be why it seemed to smell strongly. I wouldn't worry about it unless the ferrets are acting sickly.

Please don't be discouraged. Weezer was fed by a spoon in the begining and now he digs in by himself. I don't know of a ferret that just hasn't been able to switch to raw. Even though he is needing help, he is eating it.. If he were refusing it then that would be different but he probably just hasn't gotten a taste for it yet. We will get there.

Since the chicken you got is bone in.. I would go ahead and try chopping one in half inch sections and sprinkling it with kibble powder.. Maybe with the *yummy* marrow and the kibble crumbs it will be enticing enough for Bastian (After a fasting probably).

How long are you giving them to eat the meat? As long as my ferrets have been on raw they still don't always come running at feeding time. When I feed them it can take 12 hours for all the meat to be gone (Ground meat can't be left that long).

Also.. Are you sure Bastian doesn't have some hidden stash of kibble that he is getting full on?

Them sleeping more might be your imagenation or just a qwinceadence.

If you want to PM me your zip code (or a zip code near yours.. Doesn't have to be yours specificly) I will try and help you find some local resources for meat. 99% of the meat we feed is free because we have found reliable resources.

-~Ketlin

[glynus]

Thanks for the pep talk, Ketlin!

Feeling a little more optimistic this morning. They were both awake and ready to play when I went in. Chased each other around and acted more like themselves.

They didn't eat much last night but I did discover something... NO ham baby food!! I picked up the wrong jar when I was preparing the fuzzies' dinner. Thought it was chicken and couldn't figure out why even Melinda wouldn't go near it - one sniff and they were gone. When I realized what had happened, I tried putting a little plain chicken baby food on the side of the same dish. Melinda took a few licks but kept looking at the ham side like it was going to attack her. I finally decided to just start over and gave the left overs to the dog. She ate the chicken part but left the ham. Gotta figure if my mutt won't eat it, it's pretty bad

I left some chicken in their cage last night and a little was gone this morning. I replaced it with chicken and baby food (Chicken!) this morning and will see if any of it is gone when I stop by at lunch.

Bastien does not have any stashes of kibble. I cleaned their cage and room pretty thoroughly last week. Found stashes of toys but not food (except a few of Melinda's chicken pieces).

I probably haven't been giving them long enough to eat since I was a little worried about the ground up meat going bad. The chicken glop I left out this morning will be about 6 hours so I hope that's not too long

Stupid question time - how do you cut the chicken bones? Do I need to go find a cleaver or is their something else that will work?

Will pm my zip code - THANKS

[tsslilsis]

I'm glad things are looking up. Also, if it has been colder or chilly there (Or if the light cycle has changed) that will play a role in their sleepiness. Since it is winter here, and it has been getting dark so early my babies have been sleepy as well.

Who knew ham baby food was so nasty? I find that funny that the pup wouldn't even eat it!!!

The general rule for ground meat is four hours.. Six will be fine but I would try not to exceed it. It won't kill them or anything.. Its just for safety reasons as ground meat has more surface area for bactiria to grow. As long as the meat stays cool and doesn't stink, I would say it is fine.

If you have a steak knife you, most will cut through bone. It does take some effort.. You could also either score the bone and break it or just try and break it. I have to do that sometimes. Cleavers are wonderful but obviously if you can get something else to work there is no reason to go get one.

I'll try and get you some reasources as soon as I have your zip code.

-~Ketlin

[glynus]

Seem to be making a few baby steps of progress. Bastien actually ate a little chicken yesterday. He started with some pieces so tiny that I don't think he even knew they were in the baby food but I did see him actually eat a few pieces that were a little bigger. He hasn't figured out that he has to chew it, though!

Tried a few little pieces of bone but neither one was at all interested. I tried using a bigger bone as a spoon...they licked the baby food and juice off the end but weren't interested in anything else. I hoping eventually they will get curious enough to chew on it.

So, how long can they survive on just chicken pieces and baby food?? I worry that they are not eating enough - especially Bastien - but they were running around like lunatics this morning so I guess they aren't starving yet....

[tsslilsis]

That might be the key! Chopping the pieces small.. Maybe try offering him some Very small chicken chunks in there with very little baby food. Weezer started out with small chunks and Maybe it will be the same for his look a like!

So there was no meat on the bone?

As long as meat is being consumed and you are adding the egg shell powder about halfish of the time they should be fine with that for a month. I would though try adding some Small bits of organ to it, because the organ is important. So as long as they are consuming egg shell powder, meat and organ they will be fine for awhile.

Now, what things (In all) have you tried to get Bastian to eat just meat? We should figure out what you have tried and either take those steps further or try different things. It is great that he is eating some meat but I guess the key here will be to get him off the baby food since it is keeping him from making major progress as well as the fact that you would prefer to not have to keep buying it.

As a recap, has Melinda eating any meat without baby food?

-~Ketlin

[glynus]

Melinda does eat some of the meat... it has to have a little baby food or ferretvite on it to get her interested but once she gets started its ok. Anything bigger than a fingernail size piece she stashes and doesn't eat. The bone I used last night did have some meat left on it and she licked it but when it didn't come right off into her mouth she lost interest.

Today I put just cut up chicken mixed with a little water in their cage before I left. When I checked on them at lunch, a couple of pieces of meat were on the cage shelf but I couldn't tell if any had actually been eaten. I put a chicken leg bone (with some meat still on it) in the cage to see if they would play with it or chew on it some this afternoon.

What have I tried so far? Good question Straight baby food (love it as long as it's not ham). Baby food with small pieces of chicken or pork (lick off baby food, spit out meat) Baby food/ chicken or pork mush (ok as long as the pieces of meat are really tiny and it's finger fed). Baby food/chicken mushed with turkey liver and with turkey heart (run away, Mom's trying to poison us). Added crushed kibble to any of the above (smells good but something's not right here. Can I lick the crumbs without getting any of the that other stuff?)

Glad to know they can survive on chicken and babyfood for a while!