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Post by Jaycee on Jun 8, 2008 17:51:28 GMT -5
My house is crazy! With 4 kids, 7 ferrets, and my husband and I both work! I am thinking about switching from kibble to a raw diet since I hear it is better for my ferrets health. I am concerned about the meat, though. With kibble, I can pour that in a bowl and go. It isn't going to get too nasty on me while I am wrestling with kids or off at work. Meat, on the other hand, goes bad. How long can meat sit in the bowl before it needs to be tossed? Also, what about salmonilla (sp?) and other bacteria associated with meat. Will they get sick from it? Will they transmit the bacteria to me, if I pick them up after eating? Like I said in another post, I am new to this whole idea, and have more questions than answers. Anything is appreciated!
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Post by Forum Administrator on Jun 8, 2008 18:07:58 GMT -5
I generally tell people that you can leave whole prey out for about 1.5 days, raw meat out for 24 hours and ground/cut up meat out for 12 hours. In case you were wondering (unless its REALLY hot out and your meat is rotting) raw meat does NOT have much of an odor at all, even after its been sitting out for hours. It just kind of dries up. It only smells once it starts to rot, and meat takes about 1.5-2 days before it starts to decay.
In regards to salmonella, ferrets have very special bodies that REALLY reduces the chances that they will get salmonella, e.coli, or any other food bournce bacteria. When I say "Get it" I mean that if the bacteria enters their system it wont effect them. So in regards to salmonella and your ferret, they should be just fine.
YOU on the other hand CAN get salmonella (and so can your family members) HOWEVER if you employ common sense when handling the raw meat (ie. Wash hands before and after touching it, dont let your kids play with raw meat and put it into their mouths (duh! lol!), clean up the ferret's feeding area regularly, etc, etc you will be fine. Simply employ the same sanitary procedures that you would when preparing raw meat for your family and you guys should be a Okay.
Now, it is important to note that raw fed pets can shed the salmonella bacteria in their feces. Dont let this scare you out of feeding raw. You SHOULD already be cleaning up all of their potty accidents with a disinfectant and washing your hands after touching their poop, commerical pet kibbles can often contain salmonella as well and this is shed in pet feces, plus you and your kids shouldnt be smearing ferret poop on your hands or near your mouth lol. So it really is no big deal if you are sanitary about everything. Salmonella has to be ingested in order to affect you.
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Post by Forum Administrator on Jun 8, 2008 18:19:58 GMT -5
Wanted to add that pretty much ALL of the questions you are asking will be covered in great detail when the HF website comes out in August.
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Post by Jaycee on Jun 8, 2008 18:22:51 GMT -5
Okay...this brings me to another problem (future problem). I have a 3 month old baby, who is not mobile just yet. Soon, she will be bouncing off the walls like my other 3 kids. However, before she enters that independent state, she will be crawling. The ferret room is the family room. No room anywhere else at this time (husband has 10 projects started...one of which is finishing our basement). What do I do about the "poo" when baby gets mobile. Any suggestions? We have litter boxes everywhere, but always accident prone ferrets who poo wherever just because they can. I guess I will just have to be even more on top of the poo than I already am! (My husband is going to love this...he doesn't realize my baby will be crawling in the next 3 or 4 months. Wish him luck!)
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Post by Forum Administrator on Jun 8, 2008 18:27:59 GMT -5
Well, just do your best to keep baby away from the poo. Like I said the salmonella in the poop is a risk wheter you feed kibble OR raw, so this shouldnt be a factor in deterring you from natural. You just gotta be on top of the poop the best you can. And bear in mind if poop gets on your baby's leg (for example) its not going to infect him/her with salmonella. Like I said it must be ingested to cause problems.
Also, its important to note that salmonella is not present in ALL poultry. A common misconception is that if you touch raw chicken, or if raw chicken gets by your mouth you are like 100% likely to get salmonella. A recent article I read suggests that its found in less then 4% of grocery store meat.
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Post by Jaycee on Jun 8, 2008 18:29:55 GMT -5
All good to know! Thanks!
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Post by Forum Administrator on Jun 8, 2008 18:30:33 GMT -5
No problem!
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Post by mustelidmusk on Jun 8, 2008 20:25:14 GMT -5
Hi,
If you're conidering raw diet, but have concerns about leaving the wet raw food out, there are other options that might ork better for you.
Wysong makes a freeze-dried raw diet which can be fed as a dry food. It's called Wysong Archtypal I. It's a complete, balance diet, but it's not cheap. I feed raw frozen diet in the morning and evening (under supervision) and I leave the Freeze-dried diet available to the ferrets uring the day.
If I'm rushing to get to work and have to skip a fresh raw feeding, my brats have the Wysong diet available.
While not bacteria-free, the freeze-dried diets are less risky in terms of proliferation of bacteria. Since they're dry, the bacteria counts are lower, and the bacteria in your ferret's "output" will be lower as well. If you're dilligent with clean-up, restrict your ferret's access to limited areas,and supervise your kids with the ferret in the ferret area, and supervise your kids' wash-up after handling the ferret, you should be OK.
As Giuli pointed out, bacteria such as salmonella can be found in kibble as well, and any animal (including people) can potentially be germ vector. I think the risk can be managed,ut some precautionwill need to be taken, regardless of the diet youfeed your animal. -jennifer
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Post by aleronferrets on Jun 9, 2008 1:34:26 GMT -5
FWIW IME ferrets and cats won't eat meat that is overly "ripe". Dogs are a different story - some seem to think the more it sticks the better! I fed my ferrets generally in the morning and evening but if they have enough leftovers from the previous meal they just finish that instead of getting fresh. If by the next feeding they still have leftovers, the old is removed and they are given new. One thing to watch for is them stashing more food then they can eat, while you keep giving them more at each feeding. It doesn't take long before they have a smelly stock pile they aren't interested in eating any more. Either remove leftovers before giving fresh or hold off on the fresh until they eat what they have (12 - 24 hours depending on your comfort level). Past 24 hours most of my guys will hold out for fresh food and not go back to the leftovers, so check daily for anything hidden. Past 48 hours the leftovers start to kinda smell. After a week or so hidden left overs reall stink...
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Post by mustelidmusk on Jun 9, 2008 8:00:25 GMT -5
Aleron, GREAT description on caching . That's why I feed fresh raw under supervision and provide freeze-dried raw during the day - The freeze-dried doesn't rot, so the brats usually "clean up" the dry food, so I don' have a mess t deal with (Although I do live in a dry climate) -jennifer
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Post by ashsan on Jun 10, 2008 17:39:45 GMT -5
Here is another thing that you can do instead of the freeze dried chicken..... Go to wal-mart and get a food dehydrator, cut really thin strips of chicken breast and dry it. It works the same and costs a hell of a lot cheaper wysong. Its fresher and you can do it all yourself.
mustelidmusk - You might want to try it. Its just as good if not better. It also makes a great treat. And it is so much cheaper.
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Post by meli on Jun 16, 2008 21:55:03 GMT -5
I've been thinking about doing this to. Getting a dehydrator.
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Post by usmom on Jun 25, 2008 19:21:58 GMT -5
So, in regards to leaving food out, if they are caching it, I am feeding too much?
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Post by Forum Administrator on Jun 26, 2008 0:33:30 GMT -5
No, if they are caching it and its not eaten by the end of the day THEN you are feeding too much Its normal for them to cache, but if they dont eat what they cache THEN you've got food overload.
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Post by josiesmom on Jun 28, 2008 10:50:40 GMT -5
Something to remember about feeding dehydrated meats - you can generally only dehydrate strips of actual muscle meat. THis then creates one long trip of "kibble". While convenient, it does NOT offer the same benefits orally, psychologically, physiologically and emotionally to the ferret.
Orally the dry form of the meat precludes the ferret's ability to gnaw the meat off the bones, so the teeth aren't polished properly.
Because there is no bone to scrape their teeth against or to outright eat, they don't get those minerals and nutrients.
Because the dried form of meat is hardened it will be like constantly cracking kibble or small bones but without the benefits.
Physiologically because the meat IS dried the ferret's body needs an external source of moisture to aid in the processing of the meat. Whereas wet raw meat aids in its own digestion.
Psychologically, because the ferret doesn't have to spend as much time gnawing the meat from the bones eating gets to be a bore, because the meat is in one form and dry it can be an actual chore to eat.
Ferrets that get to chew and gnaw real meat from real bones just are more emotionally satisfied than ferrets fed foods convenient for us.
Freeze drying is at least one step up from being air dried as the meat CAN be freeze dried on the bone. Typically the bones don't get completely freeze dried so by the tinme the ferret gets the meat gnawed off the bone is still moist and able to be gnawed and even eaten.
Freeze drying pieces of meat creates a dry sponge type texture to the meat, so while still dry it isn't crunchy and the ferret's teeth sink into the dried flesh and get more polished.
I use air dried meats as occassional treats. Freeze dried items are kept stocked for hurricane and storm use and fed about two to three times a week just to keep them familiar with the form.
The rest of the time I either feed whole live prey or whole pieces of raw meaty bones.
With 6 ferrets allowed free roam they all tend to stash and hide their goodies regardless of whether they are hungry or not. Once a week I go around the house and pick up their stashed prizes. sure I've discovered some well hidden caches ( like recently, they'd begun stashing their partially eaten prizes in the ball pool cubby) and some pretty rank pieces, but my guys have all stayed quite healthy and I wash my hands after cleanup.
You run more of a risk of contracting e. coli or salmonella after touching that door handle at the local convenience store than you do from your own ferrets!
You KNOW where the meaty items come from, probably even ate part of the package too, so don't let folks scare you into thinking raw meat is terrifyingly dangerous!
I live in FLorida where the humidity is fairly high, but my downstairs apartment stays a very constant 68 to 70 degrees, typically the meat dries out before it goes rancid.
I also give my guys a "fast" day in the middle of the week. this makes them clean up some of their fresher stashes. Sundays are cream and egg days so typically they are getting raw only 2 days a week because they get freeze dried 2 days a week and live prey at least one day a week - hopefully in a few months their live prey feedings will be increasing, which will let me reduce my raw feedings.
They do tend to clean up their live prey and not stash it.
Cheers, Kim
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