switching?

[horse656]

I've thought about switching my two ferrets to raw for awhile.

I've tried some raw chicken, and liver, for my older one, who is about three now, but he didn't go for it. I've tried with my younger one who is about a year and half now, but with just chicken, she didn't take to it either.

I'm thinking of trying live feeder mice with them, and see what happens from there. since Joe, the other one had a run in with my hamster and a chipmunk i think there is a chance he might go for live. I'm not so sure about my girl though.
and i think they might just kill and not eat? have you had problems with that, for just switching?


but i have a few questions.
how much is it cost wise, from the normal ferret food?
how much do you have to switch up what they're eating or is constant mice enough for them?
any suggestions to help switch over?
what difference have you noticed from the the non raw?
do you feed anything along with the raw?

this will probably help me decide along with reading more.
oh, and if they do take to the raw live then I'll probably start breeding mice.
thanks

[sherrylynne]

The problem is they don't recognize the meat as food. To them- it's poison! Quite literally. Kits are taught by the mom when little what food is edible, and what isn't. So they imprint on it very young. Your job is to convince them it is. For mine, I used a raw soup mix, and had to scruff, and dab it on their noses several times before they'd try some on their own.
Check out some of the mentoring threads for more ideas on switching. There are as many ways as there are ferrets
Odds are, while the instinct to kill will be there, they won't have a clue what to do with a mouse once it's dispatched.
As for cost? Yes, it costs me more to feed raw than the mid-grade kibbles I was feeding, but I find it's fairly comparable to high end kibbles.
For making a switch, apply for a mentor- it can make such a difference having that one on one help! In the interim, we'll all do our best to help out!
You can blend chicken up, if you have it, add in some chicken heart(one or two), a chicken liver, and some powdered eggshell(this helps firm up the stool). Add enough water to make it "soupy". Pick up your ferret, and offer some of the soup off your finger. If they don't take it, dab it on their noses, over and over, as they lick it off. Sooner or later, they'll start to lick it off on their own.
As for what I feed with the raw meat? Raw bones, and raw organs They still get soups once a week, with some pumpkin mixed in, to act as the non-digestibles prey would have, like fur, etc. It helps to clean them out, basically!
The difference from kibble to raw? Almost right away, the smell is vastly decreased. Poops are minimal(since they utilize almost all the nutrients, there's not a lot to be pooped out). Increased urine, because now they are not dehydrated from the kibble. Fur becomes softer, muscle tone drastically increases, energy level goes through the roof. No more dash, dash, dash for a short time, then crashing to sleep. Their energy is much more constant.
Far fewer vet visits. Injuries heal MUCH faster. When they do become ill- they have more resources to fall back on, so they are more stable.
I'm sure others will come on listing far more

[horse656]

thanks
im also wondering where i might get most of the raw meat. i know you can get most at a normal grocery store, but what about the heart, organs and whatnot?

and what if they don't take the soup?

[StephyWolf]

I'm a newbie myself, so likely someone else here can chime in with other places:
Grocery store
Asian markets, Spanish markets (is that the correct term? Don't want to offend anyone), and other such places tend to have a lot of odds and ends.
Craigs list occasionally has people posting or you can ask for some of the odder parts. Most hunters don't need deer hearts for instance.
Online- Likely someone here would do better in hooking you up with sites but what I know:
* Freeze dried meat treats- www.thedogathlete.com/shop/pogos-freeze-dried-treats/
www.petextras.com/pogos.html
* Lots of meats at what seem decent prices (to me anyways)- hare-today.com/
* Rabbit- www.wholefoods4pets.com/index.htm
* Porridge recommended to me for my under weight boy, no reason you can't just make soup I suppose though- www.pingfordsporridge.com/index.html

Remember whole sale generally means you'll get it cheaper if you have the space to store it.

Soup is only one method of transferring but... I don't know enough to personally direct you. I'm in the mentoring program myself and that's been a great help.

[odin]

I'm in the switch right now. I have my little one on a soup. We started with a recipe of pureed meat, (you can find starter recipes all over the place on this forum) and mixing it with chicken baby food. We had a lot of problems with my fuzzies tummy,so she was used to us trying different foods. she recognized the chicken babyfood and would always lick a little off our fingers.

I think it's the texture that is weird for them too. I find that if the soup is too thick or too watery, she knows it's food, but just won't dig in unless it's 'just right'. she might be just picky though.

Where do you live? i mean, not specifically, but people might be able to give you specific stores for the supplies if we had a region to work with. If you have a Whole Foods near by, you can count on them having quality meats, no antibiotics, no steroids, vegetarian fed, usually from local farms if possible. I've never had trouble finding liver there either. If you have an Associated Market near you that is the place for everything else. I've found hearts, gizzards, liver, kidney, chicken backs, turkey backs, turkey necks, goat meat, pork, beef, duck. It's a one stop shop for ferret food. (i still get her primary chicken meat from whole foods though.)

My newbie to newbie suggestions include the following:
1. get a small electric kitchen scale. You will find it much easier to get all the percentages right if you can measure out the ingredients, like the 10% organ meat your mentor will probably tell you to put in your soup. You can also use it to keep track of your monsters weight, and her intake if you measure the bowl before and after he/she eats. Most of us have found cycles of weight and eating, even day to day.

2. freezer bags are your best friend, and make space in the freezer, you'll be surprised how fast it will fill up. I usually buy in bulk now and measure out little baggies of all the ingredients for one soup batch. then i just have to defrost a bag, puree it and she's got her meals for a few days.

[horse656]

OK, thanks
I'm in Canada. i don't know if you want more specific then that.

i would start them on a soup, but I'm not sure what to put in it yet.

for the organs, what should i be getting? i know heart, liver but I'm not sure what else.
we have beef and chicken in our freezer most of the time, for us, but is there a certain type of beef i should be feeding?

[odin]

I'm only a newbie myself, so i can only give you what i have had success with in the first month of my switch. I strongly recommend you take advantage of the mentor program the really experienced forum members have started here. It is extremely helpful to have someone one on one to troubleshoot problems.

Heather is a moderator on the site, and i'm pretty sure she is in Canada. I don't know if she is near where you are, but it's a better chance that she could give you ideas about where to find stuff than me in NY.

So as far as organ meat is concerned, I learned early on that when we talk about organs we mean secreting organs like livers and kidneys. hearts and gizzards are technically considered muscle meat. 10% of the diet should consists of organ meat, 5% of that can be liver. (again, hopefully you will get a mentor or someone more experienced can either confirm or refute this)

My soupy recipe:
5 oz chicken thigh meat with skin
.25 oz (about 5%) chicken liver
1-2 chicken hearts
1/2 tbs crushed/powdered eggshell or ground raw bone
water to get consistency desired

I use a food processor to puree this. It lasts me about three days feeding twice a day for my little female. Just adjust the amounts if you have more or less fuzzies or males. I believe sherrylynne posted somewhere that a female will eat 1-3 ounces a day and a male will 2-4 ounces a day. The rule of thumb i believe is 1 tbs of crushed eggshell per 8 ounces of meat.

The shell is necessary for the calcium and to give the poop some firmness.

Always use dark cuts of meat, they are richer in fat and taurine (heart has the most taurine b/c it's the darkest muscle meat)

These are a few things that surprised me after the switch, doesn't mean they will happen to your monster, but don't be surprised if they happen. Cassi pooped MUCH less and her poop was definitely softer. she started having pee accidents. I think this is because kibble is so dry that she had to drink to stay hydrated, but raw meat has tons of moisture in it, plus we're adding water to make it soupy. I think she just has to pee more because of all the extra moisture. It's probably impossible for them to get dehydrated on raw food diets. Her coat changed, it's softer shinier and is a little different color. She definitely has more energy. (pretty much everything sherrylynne listed above )

I hope this helps. again, GET a MENTOR. you will not be sorry. Read some of the switching threads other people have started to see what you're getting into. Don't just take what i did, check out a lot of people and figure out what will work for you. good luck!

[horse656]

yea, i signed up for it. i hope to get a mentor soon, because my Furies could use some fat on them
apparently we have a butcher in town, so i hope we'll check that out today or tomorrow.
i have two fuzz buts so ill probably just start with that, to get them going

also, are mice like the whole dietary needs? nothing else needed?

[Heather]

Mice are naturally balanced, but you have to find 2 other protein sources. So you could feed mice, rats and chicks but you have to remember when you feed only prey that the ages have to be varied too. If you feed only young prey, your ferrets will suffer a calcium difficency. This has occured on occasion. Ferrets are very lazy chewers, so they would prefer to only eat the young (smaller, lighter bones).
ciao

[horse656]

ok. thanks
that'll help with what i feed them as well