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Post by rattum on Mar 1, 2010 15:32:23 GMT -5
I was very interested in live feeding since everyone speaks so highly of it. I don't think I'll ever do it. But most ferrets I've seen do very well and quickly kill their prey. But a lot of people seem to be pitting their ferrets against animals and it takes forever for them to kill them and it seems sickeningly cruel. I couldn't even finish this video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=DINoDo3WYGM&feature=relatedIt also seems so dangerous. The hamster chomped into the ferret a couple times. I was afraid the ferret was going to lose an eye or a chunk of his nose. Are some ferrets just better at it? This seems like a really sick sport to me. But I found a few videos of people who referred back to this forum, and their ferrets dispatched their dinner very quickly and either started stacking them in a corner, or eating them.
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Post by lnsybean44 on Mar 1, 2010 15:42:43 GMT -5
The idea of live prey is not for the sick enjoyment for budding serial killers... that might be a bit harsh but ill be honest i dont even watch these videos. These people do not have the first clue about live feeding so please dont judge based on the minority of people who are cruel to animals, feeder or otherwise. Without watching the video I am going to assume that the ferret is inexperienced or given prey that it was not yet ready to handle. This is not put together with the intent of feeding the ferret but more for the sick entertainment of their friends.
Most if not all on this forum who live feed will only allow their efficient hunters to hunt. Quick, clean kills. If not, they are ready to step in and that ferret no longer hunts. The most important part is to start small and not over match the animal. A new hunter can not usually take down an adult mouse right away and must start small and work their way up with pinkies or fuzzies, the hoppers etc. Overmatching a ferret is one quick way to get your animal hurt.
While many disagree with live feeding, it should never be like what people post in those disgusting videos.
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Post by rattum on Mar 1, 2010 15:59:22 GMT -5
The ferret in the video is relatively small and they pitted him against a rather large Syrian hamster, who mainly stays on his back, and delivers a few bites to the ferret's face. It took the ferret 3 1/3 minutes to kill the hamster.
Do they usually kill them right away?
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Post by lnsybean44 on Mar 1, 2010 16:32:38 GMT -5
I do not feed live personally but I am looking into it. From what I have learned from others who do raw feed is that it should over quickly. The ferret should snap the neck and be done with it. 3 and a half minutes seems excessive. Size wise it sounds like the ferret was over matched. I am sure someone more experienced will jump in here.
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Post by goingpostal on Mar 1, 2010 19:59:38 GMT -5
Well personally that ferret looks outmatched and inexperienced. My smallest female is my dispatcher and at a little over 1 pound the largest prey she has taken on is a 50 gram gerbil, normally she is given 20-40 gram mice. Im 3.5 minutes she could have killed my entire colony.
I grab out however many mice I am feeding off that day, put the ferret in my bathtub and drop them in one at a time, she bites them in the neck/head area several times and brings them to the corner, they are done moving within 10-15 seconds beginning to end. Now if I put in a different ferret or gave her a much larger prey item I could see it going like the vid posted. However that is not proper live feeding and dangerous. If I ever start breeding rats or larger prey I plan to CO2 all but the babies.
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Post by goingpostal on Mar 1, 2010 20:02:05 GMT -5
I wanted to add, I think out of my carnivore crew, the ferret death is probably the quickest/most humane. The snake definately seems to take longer and my cat doesn't even kill them before she starts eating.
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Post by sherrylynne on Mar 1, 2010 23:06:37 GMT -5
I'm with the others. A clean ferret kill should be over in a matter of seconds. Personally, I don't feed live, and refuse to watch videos like that. But if I did, I'd def. be starting them out small so they can learn to kill quickly. Yes, there is a learning curve, which is why you must be prepared to step in if it goes on for more than 30 seconds or so, if not less. Some people are just sick, and get a voyeuristic thrill out of things like that.
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Post by Heather on Mar 2, 2010 0:14:52 GMT -5
We've had a number of people who have used Utube to referrence live prey feeding and have been totally disgusted. I wish that it was indeed educational but I find that most times it's sensational and cruel. I'm not saying that accidents don't happen, that sometimes the prey is wrong for the preditor (I certainly wouldn't be making a video of a botched hunt ). I've made this error myself. It's one of the reasons why my guys eat rats as a frozen prey and it's not because they weren't able to make a clean kill of it. They did a number of times and then one day the prey was larger than a clean bite would allow. It was the only time that I've seen the business hunt as a pack (ferrets are solitary hunters, that way they don't have to share...they don't do that very well) My deadliest hunter was more than up to making a clean kill (most times) with rats, he'd been successful many times. Attila weighed at just under 5 lbs. he was a big boy. He would also hunt occasionally with his mate Lady "B". Unfortunately, so was the rats of choice that day. Let's just say it was gruesome, took much too long in my opinion (it didn't take any 3 min.) and the whole process will never be repeated again. Ferrets are very adept killers. I have my choice killers, who do the hunting. The death happens in seconds (far neater than my hunting cat ) Often the mouse never knows what happened. Ferrets become more adept at killing their prey as they get practice. Many on board have started their little ones on baby mice, pinkies, hoppers and the like and moved them up to adult mice from there. No, I have to think that the utube videos that I've been witness to are disgusting portrayals of cruelty and sensationalism . ciao
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Post by suzieszoo on Mar 2, 2010 0:32:34 GMT -5
I have not fed live to my ferret yet, however, if I did I would treat this as I would with my snakes, undersize the prey. I have a 5 foot Ball Python that could eat a med, rat...I give her 2 mice for quick humane kills that equal the (approximate) same amount of meat. I assume the same for feeding other predators, if one would like to reduce suffering of the little ones. Hamsters are dangerous, their bite seems to contain more strength to me, and I have been bit by just about everything. I would not feed hamsters for the safety of my companion animals, as well as for humane reasons.
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Post by rattum on Mar 2, 2010 10:59:36 GMT -5
I'm glad to hear that this isn't the norm. I was searching youtube to see for myself. And there were some ferrets who went straight for the neck, and killed their dinner quicker than I've seen co2 work. But others seem like this one, too difficult. Especially since Syrian hamsters are stocky, muscular animals and can deliver a swift, STRONG bite. Owning rats, I'd be terrified to pit these two animals against each other. I've had males max out at 2 pounds, and know ferrets can be smaller. And they have such a powerful bite. I've seen snakes who've had their necks chewed through by people leaving prey in their cage. Seems there's a fine line between live feeding for enrichment, and live feeding for sport. I think I'm going to stick to pre-killed whole prey, and leave the rest to the professionals on here.
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Post by Heather on Mar 2, 2010 23:53:24 GMT -5
Work with what you're comfortable with . I agree with you, there is a fine line between a competent hunter and a too aggressive prey. The problem with ferrets is that there is no fear and sometimes they do take risks that a wild carnivore wouldn't normally take. That is one of the main reasons why my guys eaten frozen and live. They can hunt mice, but anything else comes out of the freezer ciao
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Post by josiesmom on Mar 9, 2010 0:48:35 GMT -5
AS one who has been successful in bringing out the inner predator within ferrets of all ages, I am NOT adverse to offering live prey. BUT like many have noted here, offering live prey is NOT for sensationalism on an internet video site, rather its to offer enrichment for the ferret and a natural outlet for its innate needs and abilities.
I've found that offering live prey allows severe to vicious biters a proper outlet for the use of their teeth. It has offered timid ferrets a way to become more confident and emboldens them. Live prey offered to deaf ferrets teaches them to hone their other senses (smell, sight and whisker use).
I've offered a wide variety of live prey from lowly earthworms, superworms and crickets to bait fish to chicks and pullets, mice of all ages, rat pups up to medium sized rats and guinea pigs.
MY two very best hunters have been deaf ferrets (Josie and Crystal). Josie was a tenacious huntress eager to take down any sized prey. She was also the youngest ferret to start on the raw/natural program - she started at 5 weeks old when I'd first brought her home.
Crystal is a quick clean dispatcher of mice and likes to stack her kills in neat piles. Twice she managed to obliterate my breeding colony and was ever so proud of her neatly stacked prizes when I discovered her in the bin!
Two elderly ferrets I adopted quickly took to being predators and I've got video somewhere that shows Fozzy dispatching his third mouse in thirty six seconds!
Yes ferrets are carnivores and yes they are predatory - but not all of them instinctively know HOW to hunt - this is a skill they must learn and develop. Pitting an unskilled ferret against an adult rodent fully capable and able to defend itself is NOT the way to encourage proper hunting techniques!
Adult predators have to teach the young how to locate, capture and dispatch prey. This is usually done by introducing young prey or prey that has been suitably maimed by the adult so that the youngsters can employ their skills and not get hurt by the prey.
A ferret's caretaker needs to take these same precautions. Rodent have wicked teeth and rats especially are very adept at defending themselves. Losing an eye or getting an ear shredded or getting an infection from a deep bite is NOT going to enrich your ferret's life!
Progressing from small, relatively defensless, but interesting and tasty prey up through the life stages as the ferret learns to dispatch the prey quickly is the way to give them the skills they need.
A ferret has uniquely designed teeth and jaws perfectly set to dispatch rodents; their jaws have the strength of a medium sized dog and the small sharp teeth are perfectly spaced to grasp the rodent's neck and sink through the jugular suffocating it or with a quick shake of the head, they snap the neck.
Ferrets have exceptionally thick skin which can minimize the effects of a bite. Their very dextrous forepaws can grasp and hold the prey while they obtain a better grip with their jaws. A ferret's sinewy and lithe body is able to twist and turn and follow the prey wherever it goes. They are surprisingly strong ounce for ounce and can take on prey considerably larger than themselves - ferrets in Europe routinely are used to hunt rabbits two and three times the size of the ferret! Mostly the rabbit flushes from the warren - but sometimes the ferret dispatches the rabbit on the spot.
They do NOT have good vision and very often the prey will escape from their sight - which is why when they are first learning it is a good idea to put the prey and the ferret in a large bin or an escape proof room (like a bathroom).
Bait fish can be put in a shallow bin of water for the ferret to snorkel in and flip them out with their forepaws.
Crickets are best offered in a very deep bin. While superworms are best caught in a shower stall or flat bin.
Chicks are easily caught in the bathroom, Pullets will make the ferret leap a bit to get that proper hold on the throat.
Guinea Pigs are the nosiest to take down and their shrieks can be unnerving. I've never had the opportunity to offer live rabbits or bunnies - but have hear rabbits shriek when taken by fox in the wild - so these two are prey items better left for less squeamish among us. I feed dressed rabbit to my ferrets and they enjoy it.
Most ferrets are fearless and once they begin to develop their abilities it is amazing how tenacious they become. How single minded they are in their pursuit. And how proud they are of their accomplishments! It helps too whne you as their guide offer them encouragement and praise for a job well done!
OF course it helps to encourage swifter learning and adaptation of their skills if the ferret is slightly hungry before any hunting begins. Not starved. But wide awake, eager for meal time and curious about the prey.
Ferrets that have become true predators simply vibrate with enthusiasm when its time for a live dinner! They'll tremble with excitement, often poofing their tails and chattering all the while. They get visibly disappointed when the prey has all been dispatched. Usually too - they don't immediately begin devouring their kill - they'll seek other prey to dispatch and will only settle down to eat once they realize all opportunities to hunt are over.
A properly trained ferret kills swiftly and cleanly - its not a blood bath and the prey usually hardly ever knows what hit it. Some never even get out a squeak! I've never observed any of my ferrets "playing" with the prey like a cat does. Even if the prey manages to slip away from the ferret, the ferret is all business about locating and dispatching the escapee. No cat and mouse games here!
Responsible caretakers recognize that even the prey animals need to go out with some sort of dignity. Overmatching the prey to an inexperienced ferret is NOT humane to the prey and creates an extreme risk to the ferret!
There are many benefits to the ferret that has learned to properly hunt and this adds one more level to your own understanding and a way to become closer to your ferret. Say a prayer of thanks to the prey that is about to nourish your ferret before each and every offering and this I firmly believe keeps things right with the world.
If your ferret doesn't eat the prey immmediately don't throw it away. Sometimes it can take a day or two for the ferret to recognize the now dead prey as food. Leave it with the ferret for a few hours and then put it in the fridge or freezer. then offer it as the next meal. OFten allowing another ferret or two into the vicinity will encourage better hunting and/or devouring of the prey.
Feeding live prey IS a great enrichment for your ferret and should NEVER be a cruel "sport"!
Cheers, Kim
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lorelei0922
Cageless and Roamin' Free
Happily Feeding Natural!
Posts: 245
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Post by lorelei0922 on Mar 9, 2010 4:57:19 GMT -5
As someone who's ferrets actually DO catch their own dinner in the wild, i can say an experienced ferret is a sight to behold when in hunting mode... as the previous poster said its no cat and mouse game.. no bashing the thing about and very rarely do they miss and have to try again.. 90% of their kills are from a single bite to the jugular of the rabbit where you can clearly see a neat incision of 1/4 to 1/2 inch completely removed.. the animal isn't suffering for more than a second i should think.
they can even efficiently handle animal much larger than they, i have a jill who weighs under 3/4 of a pound and she can take down and kill a full grown buck rabbit with the same dispatch as my 5 lb hobs
its not for the feint hearted... nor should they be used as cruel sport for those who obviously have nothing better to do with their time... but it is natural and instinctively bred into these animals ...
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