odin
Going Natural
Posts: 153
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Post by odin on Feb 26, 2010 21:51:01 GMT -5
So we signed up here a month ago or so and posted a mentor application. We understand that the mentoring is done in cycles so that we need to be patient, and are really amazed that so many good ferret parents are willing to give up their time and energy to helping make other ferrets healthier.
The problem is that we need to do this really soon and are pretty much going to try to wing it. If your read our post in the health section title helicobacter infection, you'll understand. Cassi is fighting off something that no one seems to be able to put a name to. Now two weeks after a surgery that was supposed to remove a suspected blockage that wasn't there and biopsies that all came back inconclusive we are happy with some bit of recovery. She is on a kitten food that is easy to digest and we give her max-cal kitten food mixed with heavy cream to put some weight back on her (she had stopped eating due to upset tummy).
Anyway, she is eating, playing and pooping, which after the heartbreak of the last month is a huge blessing. now i want her eating healthy. even our vet has said that he knew of people who had success with IBD using a whole prey diet. (brought it up to us hesitantly not realizing we were considering this before she got sick). So even though her appetite is coming back, i'm sure you all can understand my hesitancy and nervousness about changing her from a diet that she is FINALLY eating voluntarily, but i truly believe that if the problem is with digestion that the best thing i can do is get her on raw. no matter what the problem is... the months worth of antibiotics has to fix, otherwise it's finding the diet that works.
So, what do i need right now? I need someone to explain to me what the danger is of mixing raw with kibble diets. when making your raw chicken soups do you boil the chicken first? I need recipes for starter soups. I need to understand how you figure out if the diet you are providing has enough protein vs fat. Is the chicken balanced enough as it is, or does it come from the 3 protein minimum? I need a feeding schedule.
I'm sorry if I sound rude, it's just that i feel like the sooner i get her off of this kitten kibble she insists on eating that has corn as three of the first four ingredients and off this max-cal dog/cat recovery food the better.
She likes chicken baby food. She barfs when even the smallest amount of wysong arch I gets in her mouth.
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Post by Heather on Feb 27, 2010 0:18:01 GMT -5
Hi I"ve been watching Cassie's medical trials and understand your concern. I just went through the mentor applications because I didn't recall seeing your application. Your application for Cassie must have got hung up in the system because I don't have any record of your application. I even double checked by cross checking all your posts....please fill out the application again as it appears that it never saved to the files. In the interim I and some of the other mentors will help you with Cassie. I will notify them as soon as I get off here and see if we can advance your application. So please go here holisticferret.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=newbie&action=display&thread=3454 and fill out an application, make sure it saves and we will try and get you a mentor. In the meantime, there are a number of methods that you can try to get her started that don't involve dealing with kibbles. Here's one of my favourite recipes 8 oz of raw chicken thigh meat (including fat and skin) 1 tsp of crushed eggshell powder 1/2 raw chicken liver 1 raw chicken heart (you may also want to add 1 tsp of pumpkin as your little one has tummy issues) Enough water to get it to the consistancy you want (soupy or thick) The nice thing about this mix, is that if she really hates it you can use it to add to her baby food. You add a very small amount (a tsp not much more) and then gradually build it up until she will eat the raw instead of the baby food. I usually throw this into the food processor to begin with (making it smooth) If you think she will eat this chunky then do so. This becomes as much what you know your little one will eat vs what we know she needs. This recipe is actually balanced. I usually start by leaving them whatever kibbles they eat and getting them to start on this. You can try dipping your finger and putting it on her nose and getting her to lick the soupy off your finger. At first she may react like you're trying to poison her. Let her go and try again in a few minutes. This isn't a fast process. You can use any protein source to make up this soupy. You can even use this soupy mix to switch them to a different protein source once they get accustomed to this protein. Once she's consistently eating this food (as in a whole meal) then I usually remove the kibble for an hour or so before I feed the raw. If she's actually eating it on her own and will do so without any issues then remove the kibble for a few hours, letting her eat the soupy (I'm only going this far at this time, there's no reason to create more problems by giving you more steps than is necessary at one time) Figuring out what is a good protein, fat, bone mix is very much individualized. What is too much meat for one isn't enough for another and to a certain degree requires some juggling but that's what makes this diet so good for IBD kids. I think this will start you up. I will now go and see about getting some of the other mentors to help you out too, until we can get you a more permanent mentor. ciao
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odin
Going Natural
Posts: 153
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Post by odin on Feb 27, 2010 8:52:44 GMT -5
Thank you very much for everything. I feel a bit dumb not noticing the starter post.
The chicken thigh... do you get that boneless or with bone in and if so do you throw the whole thing into the blender?
and if i can't get hearts right away is there another way to get her the really dark muscle meat for the taurine? two livers won't work right, b/c thats organ meat?
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Post by sherrylynne on Feb 27, 2010 16:12:26 GMT -5
I usually buy bone in, and cut it away from the bone. The thigh bone will make your blender/processor burn out right quick If you can't get hearts right away, that's not a problem. It's likely going to take a bit to get her to accept it anyway. Any dark meat will have some taurine. The harder a muscle works, the richer it is in taurine, which is why hearts are ideal. And you're right about the livers. More than one liver per ferret per week runs a risk of too much vit.A also, as well as giving them the runs.
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odin
Going Natural
Posts: 153
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Post by odin on Feb 27, 2010 16:47:45 GMT -5
Awesome! gonna try it today. Ultimately what is a good feeding schedule? She seems to eat big meals twice a day already, but snacks on kibble here and there all day long.
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Post by lnsybean44 on Feb 27, 2010 17:15:41 GMT -5
I usually feed two meals and my boys will pace themselves throughout the day. I remove old meat at each meal and give them fresh so they dont have anything older than 12 hours (unless it is whole prey).
I dont know how many others do this but I like to have powdered taurine, salmon oil and powdered bone meal on hand at all times. For the days I cant get my hands on heart or dark muscle I will add some powdered taurine to their food. Same thing for if they dont eat their bone. Additionally when they eat meats like lamb it tend to turn their poo to diarrhea so to fix that I sprinkle a little bone meal on top to firm it up.
Make sure you go with human grade supplements though.
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Post by Heather on Feb 27, 2010 23:14:37 GMT -5
Odin your thread in the mentoring program has been re-opened ....bigsis7 is your mentor. Thank you ladies for hopping up to the base and helping out ciao
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Post by vkoslin on Mar 5, 2010 20:58:07 GMT -5
I started feeding raw by putting high quality (wellness core) kibble and raw. Some of mine switched to raw on their own will. The rest took some time. I didn't have any problems with digestion. Sometimes I had a runny poop but they were always healthy.
My luck lately has been rotten and while trying to sell my house, my 6 are at the local pet store, where we visit daily with their raw meals, play with them, and give them running time. On Sundays, the pet store isn't open and we've had to resort to putting in half a cup of kibble to assure they are eating.
I loathe kibble. But, I have to do what I have to do. I feel you can apply this to your situation. For a little while, if it helps, use the kibble to get to the raw. Dust raw chicken in ground kibble. Mix it in with kibble. Show them that raw is food just like kibble because it's put in the same bowl at the same time everyday.
The easiest is to get a food processor or blender. I cut chicken breasts up and toss into a food processor, pulse it 10 times, then bag it. It's VERY easy. Make sure you're giving them some powdered egg if they're not eating bone yet (which is hard). Take an egg shell, clean it good. Let it dry, then put in a bag and powder it. Add a pinch every other meal. Make sure they get that calcium.
Now you have to feed organs too. Mine personally LOVE beef heart (cheap at walmart 5lbs for 3 bucks), and chicken gizzards (a whole tray for 1.50). I cut it up, toss in processor, pulse it, and toss it into a bag.
I have plenty more tips but these I feel are the easiest. You can message me if you like. I'd love to help more, I'm afraid that I'm not on as much as I would like to be. Life gets rough sometimes, you know how it goes. But I'd be glad to help you out. And i know these ladies on the forum are incredibly knowledged about raw and keep asking questions will get you where you need to be!
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Post by luci on Mar 6, 2010 18:21:12 GMT -5
Good advice! However I should point out that heart and gizzards are fed as meats, not organs. Organs in our case refer to the icky, squishy, secreting stuff like liver (5% of diet), andthe other 5% of their organ intake can be things like kidney, pancreas, brain, thymus, testicles, etc. Just wanna make sure there isn't any confusion!
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